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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Is this game worth investing hundreds of hours into for me?

Author
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2017-03-01 03:51:56 UTC
Hakawai wrote:

Lots of things are possible for new players, including finding an honest and helpful Corp early on, but it's not likely. EVE doesn't actually incentivize group play at all. As with most of EVE, it's "all stick and no carrot".

IMO the root cause of this the "Corp problem" is an avoidable part of a wider game design issue, but it's so unlikely that CCP will try to address it I don't think it's worth discussing.

It sounds to me like you are talking strictly about high sec corps and if you are then I agree with you. Get out of high sec and you'll find plenty of corps willing to help out players with free or replacement ships and you will also discover that Eve is a group game.
Hakawai wrote:

The most realistic solution to "pay to PvP" and the SP issue is to be patient, fly cheap ships, buy PLEXes as income substitutes, and use some of the time that patience buys you to find a decent Corp. Some people will do this, but most won't - the average gamer is RL-cash poor, impatient, and likes bling.

patience and flying cheap are the keys to this game even years down the road. I've been playing this game since 2009 and have 3 characters with well over 100 Million skill points each and I still mostly fly T2 fit, T1 standard ships. I own faction and T2 blinged out ships but those have been collecting dust in high sec for years. About the only time that I fly a T2 ship is when I am making a supply run to high sec in my blockade runner.

Probably the most watched PvP statistic in this game is kill efficiency which is the ratio of the isk value of your ships lost versus the ships that you have destroyed. You win at this game by doing more with less. If you are they type of player that can't let go of the WoW mentality and are focusing on getting to max level and getting 'decked out in purples" before you even try to do anything then you will wind up leaving this game eventually anyway.

Players that come to this game liking bling and thinking that they can buy their way to glory typically don't last long. It's consistent enough that many of us vets don't even bother trying to teach them or at least not much. We'll tell them once or twice and then just wait for them to rage quit.

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Lemming Master
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2017-03-01 05:30:29 UTC
If you like punching children because it makes you feel like you won a fight, then you will fit right in in eve, but if you have honor, like a fair fight, and want to have a chance in your first 5 years of playing, of actually winning a fight, go elsewhere. Eve's training que makes grinding xp impossible, and so you are literally stuck as a noob for as long as ccp decides, regardless of weather you are a great player, or have never played a game before in your life. its stupid. waste of time and money for me.
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#23 - 2017-03-01 05:37:42 UTC
OP, lemming master is a good example of a poor attitude and how not to be.


Hakawai
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2017-03-01 07:05:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakawai
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Hakawai wrote:

Lots of things are possible for new players, including finding an honest and helpful Corp early on, but it's not likely. EVE doesn't actually incentivize group play at all. As with most of EVE, it's "all stick and no carrot".

IMO the root cause of this the "Corp problem" is an avoidable part of a wider game design issue, but it's so unlikely that CCP will try to address it I don't think it's worth discussing.

It sounds to me like you are talking strictly about high sec corps and if you are then I agree with you. Get out of high sec and you'll find plenty of corps willing to help out players with free or replacement ships and you will also discover that Eve is a group game.

I meant Corps in general, definitely including nullsec.

Of course there are suitable Corps for newish players, but it will probably take a long time to find one that works well, even for a PvPer. The usual "minimum 5 million SP" requirement is hardly beginner-friendly.

Such a "filter" on joining a Corp is rational of course. It obviously doesn't make sense for a small- to moderately-sized in-game player organization with objectives, plans, and ongoing activities to train new players. Much smarter to let them fumble around for a few months or a year, filter for experience and achievements, and then accept recruits. It's potentially efficient for really large Corps to train newer players, and there's room for a few specialized training corps, but there's a reason you get so few examples when you ask about this (typically, EVE Uni & R vs B in highsec, PL's training subsidiary, and Brave)

As I said above, I think this is avoidable, but I doubt CCP will ever address it. It's just one more hard problem no MMO gaming company has ever addressed seriously - and made more difficult in EVE by the trust problem.
:
:
I wrote a response to your use of WoW comparisons and "buying status/power in EVE", but this is the wrong place, and you're the wrong target. But please don't use WoW-based scenarios.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2017-03-01 11:07:05 UTC
Hakawai wrote:

I meant Corps in general, definitely including nullsec.

Of course there are suitable Corps for newish players, but it will probably take a long time to find one that works well, even for a PvPer. The usual "minimum 5 million SP" requirement is hardly beginner-friendly. Such a "filter" on joining a Corp is rational of course. It obviously doesn't make sense for a small- to moderately-sized in-game player organization with objectives, plans, and ongoing activities to train new players. Much smarter to let them fumble around for a few months or a year, filter for experience and achievements, and then accept recruits. It's potentially efficient for really large Corps to do train newer players, and there's room for a few specialized training corps, but there's a reason you get so few examples when you ask about this (typically, EVE Uni & R vs B in highsec, PL's training subsidiary, and Brave)

As I said above, I think this is avoidable, but I doubt CCP will ever address it. It's just one more hard problem no MMO gaming company has ever addressed seriously - and made more difficult in EVE by the trust problem.

Then I have no idea what you are talking about. You mention "" the "Corp problem """ earlier as if it were a known thing that I should be familiar with and I am not. Eve is a group game and you need to find a good group to play with or this game will suck. Most other games you can play for years solo. Be it most other MMOs or console FPSs, most games have queueable PvP with respawn mechanics that work well for people looking for instant gratification and minimal social interaction.

In Eve if you want to do well in this game and have fun doing so you will need to find a good group of friends to play with and you will also need to get involved and make something happen. This involves effort on your part. You will need to seek out people doing what you want to be doing and spend some time investigating the corp and it's players. Hanging out in their public channels and talking them up for a few weeks etc... No this won't be handed to you on a silver plater like all the queueable content in other games but to me the fact that you and your friends have to make stuff happen makes it all the more worth it.

To me this game obviously heavily favors group effort. Anyone that says otherwise I assume hasn't been involved in living in a wormhole or living deep in null sec. Those types of game play require huge amounts of cooperation just to get by on a day by day basis not to mention thrive and succeed.
Hakawai wrote:

I wrote a response to your use of WoW comparisons and "buying status/power in EVE", but this is the wrong place, and you're the wrong target. But please don't use WoW-based "examples".

It is the game that most other MMOs try and copy. Eve is 6 months older than WoW and therefore it had no influence on the original development of this game. It is one of the few place in MMO gaming that has not been largely corrupted by influence from that game.

When I see or hear of behavior that has been programmed into players by all those other games that are roughly the same I will call it out. It's not about name calling or criticism I'm trying to help new players distinguish between things that they generally have learned from their experiences in Eve from things that they have brought to Eve from other games. Especially those habits that don't work here.

I am not claiming to be right nor the authority on all things Eve. I'm just offering my perspective. My perspective comes from years of experience but those years I understand can also bring the "bitter vet" syndrome. So take what I say with a grain of salt but don't just dismiss it out right.

All I am really trying to do is let the OP know that if he wants to enjoy the game he can't think of it like an "investment". He will need to go out and get involved. He will need to put in effort to have fun with others. His enjoyment of this game will be directly related to how much he puts into it, however the effort should not be work, it should be fun the entire time. This is a game if he's not having fun then he's doing something wrong. The idea of investment into a game makes me giggle.

When I was younger I used to mountain bike with friends a lot. It involved a lot of preparation and traveling to good spots and then lots of physical effort once we got there. Never once did I look at it like I was "investing" my time into mountain biking. I did it because I enjoyed it. Mountain biking was the payoff that the "investment" of working at my job offered me.

TL;dr

I'm just telling the OP to go out there and get involved and not try to solo the game in high sec. Have fun with other players and if it feels like you are "investing" your time then you are doing something wrong. We come to Eve to "spend" time or "waste" time not "invest" it.

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Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2017-03-01 11:20:10 UTC
Hakawai wrote:
there's room for a few specialized training corps, but there's a reason you get so few examples when you ask about this (typically, EVE Uni & R vs B in highsec, PL's training subsidiary, and Brave)
And Karmafleet, yes. And a few dozen less famous but still active corps that have "University" in their name, filtering also helps. Wonder how they still operate while the big ones you mentioned are also there, have good reputation and publicity. Even just those felt too many to chose from when I felt the need for it.

Not that I have the ways of measuring the general quality of the lesser ones, but the one I picked by checking descriptions and activity levels had really thorough lectures and educational practical courses. And lovely members of course. Oops


Though I believe it when you suggest that EvE is full of corps that neglect and/or mislead, even exploit their members who doesn't know better. Regardless if they do it for ignorance or profit, it just part of a rough environment that rewards doing your homework and asking around, and punishes blindly clicking 'yes' on random popup-windows.

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.

Hakawai
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2017-03-01 12:49:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakawai
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Hakawai wrote:
there's room for a few specialized training corps, but there's a reason you get so few examples when you ask about this (typically, EVE Uni & R vs B in highsec, PL's training subsidiary, and Brave)
And Karmafleet, yes. And a few dozen less famous but still active corps that have "University" in their name, filtering also helps. Wonder how they still operate while the big ones you mentioned are also there, have good reputation and publicity. Even just those felt too many to chose from when I felt the need for it.

Not that I have the ways of measuring the general quality of the lesser ones, but the one I picked by checking descriptions and activity levels had really thorough lectures and educational practical courses. And lovely members of course. Oops

Though I believe it when you suggest that EvE is full of corps that neglect and/or mislead, even exploit their members who doesn't know better. Regardless if they do it for ignorance or profit, it just part of a rough environment that rewards doing your homework and asking around, and punishes blindly clicking 'yes' on random popup-windows.

I wasn't trying to go as far as call it "neglect or mislead". What I'm trying to convey is that it usually takes time for a new player to find a Corp that works for them. This means we can't safely assume a supportive Corp is always available for a new player, and hence that "find a nice Corp", while it may not be bad advice, doesn't necessarily work out as good advice either.

This is what I called the "Corp problem" earlier. I view it as one of the constraints on a smooth introduction to EVE.

I don't believe there's a "magic wand" for this of course, but I can't help thinking it could be made a lot easier in exchange for a modest effort.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2017-03-01 13:09:59 UTC
Hakawai wrote:
. This means we can't safely assume a supportive Corp is always available for a new player, and hence that "find a nice Corp", while it may not be bad advice, doesn't necessarily work out as good advice either.

I think you need to look up a definition of the word "available". Availability and success in finding are not the same thing. Yes supportive corps are available to new players. However the new player needs to put effort into finding one and may not succeed on his first attempt.

I understand that in other, more focused, more linear games where everyone is pretty much doing the exact same thing it's easier to find a corp or clan or guild or whatever. Eve is a sandbox so not only do you have to find a "good" corp but you need to find one that suits your playstyle and preferences.

This can be far more involved than finding a raiding guild in one of the many WoW clones for example or finding a group of Battlefield players on the PSN that like to queue up for battlegrounds together.
Hakawai wrote:

This is what I called the "Corp problem" earlier. I view it as one of the constraints on a smooth introduction to EVE.

Again you keep saying this like it is a known thing and, at least I myself, don't know what specifically you are talking about. It is hard for any of us to help find a solution to a problem that we don't understand what it is.

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Keno Skir
#29 - 2017-03-01 19:12:22 UTC
I dunno mate judging by your OP you won't have the "minerals" for EvE. I'm not trying to be rude just pointing out EvE is famously infuriating which is one of the things most of us like about it. It's unforgiving, harsh and long (which is indeed what "she" said..).

Cya out there maybe Pirate
roberts dragon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2017-03-03 09:00:06 UTC
eve is sandbox it has a love hate relationship , if you do try it its free join a player corp they hopefully will help you and make the game more enjoyable , does pay to have friends .wish you well
Professor Sternu Tarantoga
Queens of the Drone Age
#31 - 2017-03-03 09:12:41 UTC
I just play EVE a bit. Works fine for me. If you don't want to earn billions of ISK, don't care for your killboard and don't need to fly one of the biggest ships everything is fine. Just fly around, meet other players and have fun. Some Alliances even have free T1 ships, just go for it.
Xiu Kahn
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2017-03-03 09:42:11 UTC
I think based on your original post Eve is not going to be a good long term fit. I am guessing you are used to a completely different style of coop play. The PvP in this game is radically different from what you may have done before. However alpha state leaves you free to explore for a while and if you find a good group you might enjoy certain aspects. The tutorial is just to help you move your ship around and understand the ui. The rest is open ended conflict on all levels.

"The maze is not mean't for you."

Cyrill
Interstellar Impromptu
#33 - 2017-03-03 13:56:50 UTC
Lemming Master wrote:
Eve's training que makes grinding xp impossible, and so you are literally stuck as a noob for as long as ccp decides, regardless of weather you are a great player, or have never played a game before in your life.

Actually it's not true anymore. You can grind ISK and buy skill injectors.
Lucian Skord
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2017-03-03 14:15:08 UTC
This game is awesome but u will have to invest a lot of time learning it.
It's thrilling when 5hit hits the fan.

I'm warning u tho eve won't hold ur hand doubleheckb efore you do things as a newb.

For example I spent ages grinding for the largest guns I could fit on my frigate. Finally got enough isk bought them went to fit and uh oh not even powergrid available to fit them all. Guns sold back to market at less than half price :(
Camord
ClawEdge Corporation
#35 - 2017-03-21 22:19:21 UTC
Don't let these guys fool you...
EVE is a PvP only game, you are not safe anywhere.

You have 2 options: join the grievers or become content for their game.

Everything else is only possible if you accept you cannot play this game in peace.

Redus Taw
Valor Evolved
Order of Allied Knights
#36 - 2017-03-22 04:59:19 UTC
Eve is a pvp game that is slow paced and there's a grind for making money. Training skills takes time, 6 months to 4 + years to get to where you want to be. With this game I recommend trying to find something you like doing for fun and for making isk (in-game currency). If you can see yourself doing these things for a while, while also trying out other things that may interest you, you may end up liking it. There's a lot of things to try in eve so there's probably something you'll like and that you'll want to back for eventually if you were to stop playing. If you could reply with something(s) you might be interested in eve I can go further in depth. If I can't I'm sure somebody here can give you some solid insight on that particular aspect of Eve that you're interested in. Good luck!
Tikus Cro
Devious Bastards
#37 - 2017-03-23 01:59:11 UTC
Nope

Seriously though, this game is addictive if it's your style. A saying I remember is, "EVE players never truly quit, they just go on break."
Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#38 - 2017-03-25 08:52:14 UTC
Camord wrote:
Don't let these guys fool you...
EVE is a PvP only game, you are not safe anywhere.

You have 2 options: join the grievers or become content for their game.

Everything else is only possible if you accept you cannot play this game in peace.
Which is good. Without that constant threat of loss, your endeavours would seem valueless.

I know that I could (and have) lose a huge portion of my isk if my market predictions are wrong.
I know that I could (and have) lose shipments, because I didn't take enough precautions against suicide ganks.
I know that I could (and have) miss an important red flag and end up with a stockpile of worthless stuff because I didn't notice a scam.

Without that risk I'd get bored and leave.
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