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Dev Blog: Introducing Clone States & the Future of Access to EVE

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Voxinian
#1501 - 2016-11-26 22:01:21 UTC
Helio Anthus wrote:
Really, we are calling this free to play. This is like when Warcraft started letting you play Oh, but wait only to 20, and then half the game was off limits. This is still a trial, not a time limit one true, but its still a trial.

Free to play means that, well, your free to play. I like training slower, things more difficult, pay to get past grinding parts. But free to play means you can play the whole game. Call it what it is a trail account with limited skills. to play you have to pay.



CCP ddin't state it was going to be free to play, but 'free access'.
ptitz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1502 - 2016-12-07 22:02:05 UTC
Baby steps but honestly nowhere near enough for me. I love EvE. I have tried no less than a dozen times to really "get into" it, and have come close, sometimes spending 2 or 3 months at a time playing. But the problem with is game is the subscription model. I don't mind having to pay for the game once I'm well and truly "in" and have joined a corp that I like and really started to plumb the depths of what I want to do with the game, but this is basically WoW's "free to level 20" nonsense, wherein you really can't play the game without paying.

My problem is that I want to be able to pick this game up and put it down, and requiring a subscription model really puts that stress on my mind that I either need to get my money's worth out of it every month I pay, or I shouldn't be playing. There are a ton of free games that I'm happy putting money into, a-la hearthstone, planetside 2, and warframe to name three that I've dumped well over $200 into each. But the monthly payment on EvE just hasn't proven itself to be a valuable asset to me yet, and the fact that I can't really get in and play the way I want, with the ships and tools I want, relegates alpha clones to be far "too little" to get me to even bother.

My recommendations:

looser restrictions on what a clone can do. I want to get to level II mining, up to battlecruisers, have the ability to use ANY faction ship and weapon (seriously that restriction is just ********) and just be locked out of the really high tier content.

If you want players to jump on a free to play game, it has to feel to them like they aren't being arbitrarily restricted. The game should be essentially all access until they are well and truly hooked, which in a game with such an incredible learning curve as EvE, can take six months or more.

Essentially, Alpha clone is a slightly less restrictive form of WoW's or SWTOR's "free to play" aspects, which are just too limiting to even count.

Hell, I'd also be okay with a cheap $5/mo sub that does everything but give you access to the final tier of equipment.

I've always said that if EvE goes truly F2P I'd pick it up in a heartbeat and probably throw a lot of money at microtransactions and maybe one of the "premium" subscriptions once I'm deeper in the game, but as it stands, I've tried over and over to get past that "hump", but the anxiety of having to learn a game as daunting as this combined with the subscription fee has always created too much of an artificial hurdle.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1503 - 2016-12-08 21:14:38 UTC
Voxinian wrote:
Helio Anthus wrote:
Really, we are calling this free to play. This is like when Warcraft started letting you play Oh, but wait only to 20, and then half the game was off limits. This is still a trial, not a time limit one true, but its still a trial.

Free to play means that, well, your free to play. I like training slower, things more difficult, pay to get past grinding parts. But free to play means you can play the whole game. Call it what it is a trail account with limited skills. to play you have to pay.



CCP ddin't state it was going to be free to play, but 'free access'.
Semantics - Free Access = Free 2 Play with limits, like most games out there.
It simply comes down to how much "free access" the "free 2 play" model allows.

I don't think CCP has quite found the right level of access yet but judging by numbers online each day, what they have allowed is working.

Six months from now will show whether Alpha clones are in the right place - If current numbers are maintained AND subs increase, then you could call Alpha Clone states a success.
Eve is after all a business, for alpha clone states to be a successful thing it needs to generate income for CCP.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Josef Djugashvilis
#1504 - 2016-12-08 22:28:04 UTC
Dear Ptitz, I sincerely hope that you get what you want, just think, if CCP allow free-loaders to do pretty much anything they want, then I and all the other folk who pay to play could also become free loaders and that would really help CCP's finances.

Jeez, man, just buy a PLEX or something.

Take care.

This is not a signature.
Josef Djugashvilis
#1505 - 2016-12-08 22:30:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Double post, sorry folks.

This is not a signature.
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
#1506 - 2016-12-13 14:09:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Destriouth Hollow
First of all:
Let me congratulate CCP for this amazing new improvement for eve online. I LOVE the existance of alpha clones!
Reasons are as followed:
- New people can try out the game in much more detail and decide what to do later on
- These new player provide a lot of additional content for exististing players, for almost all of the existing professions
- The additional players that decide to pay later on, provide CCP with funds to improve the game further
- A steady playerbase is the fundament for the longevity of Eve online
- For casual sporadic pvp-purposes people may even alpha longtime
- The restriction in income-skills (pve, mining etc) keeps the impact from beein harmfull to the economy
- doubt many omegas (if at all) would drop to alphas, if they would otherwise have continued payment

It's very thought through and balanced. I am often surprised of the solutions ccp provided for handlung issues. Interesting and awe-worthy (:

Little tweak from my side though:
PvP in T1-Cruisers should be possible for alphas, with the most basic modules. I view Tech 2 Invuls as one of the most basic modules any T1-shield-cruiser needs. The meta versions has a really low resistance bonus, for remote repping and ist hardly worth the slot. Especially for Invuls the faction-variants are CRAZY expensive (starting at 250mil isk) and may as well not exist for T1-cruiser PvP. I would therefore suggest allowing alphas access to tech 2 resistance modules (especially invuls), as these are among the most basic modules needed to accomplish anything. Otherwise i would really be interested in your reasoning, as to why they shouldn't be included. In case there is something i did not take into consideration.

Pretty much all other bread-and-butter modules for t1-cruiser-pvp are allowed for alphas. T2-weapons would need weapons skill on 5, so the reasoning here is obvious. T2-weapons would be hard to fit with the cpu/grid restrictions anyway. But what's the reasoning behind not allowing T2-resistance modules?

Ah, I just noticed. T2-armor hardeners need a skill on lvl 5, so you didnt want to include these. And you disallowed t2-shield resistance, to keep it balanced? Maybe setting the skill restrictions for t2-armor hardeners to lvl 4 would be the way to go.

Looking forward to your answer.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#1507 - 2016-12-13 21:04:13 UTC
Well - as it stands an Omega in the same ship and fit as Alpha is approx 40% more effective altogehter. All these little things add up that is the numerical difference on average. There are some common fits that wont work at all as they rely on max skills to function.

So I'm maintaining my standpoint that as implemented the current version is pay to win even in the niche marked for alphas to play (i.e., T1 frigate, destroyer and cruiser hulls).

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Marmofeels
Kodakona
#1508 - 2017-01-10 18:03:23 UTC
It would be really nice if you could let us use another faction's frigates
I made an Amarr character but then quickly switched over to Caldari back when faction didn't matter
Now it does and the only thing I can do is either delete my character and start over, or fly boring Amarr ships.
Thanks CCP
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1509 - 2017-01-10 20:53:18 UTC
Marmofeels wrote:
It would be really nice if you could let us use another faction's frigates
I made an Amarr character but then quickly switched over to Caldari back when faction didn't matter
Now it does and the only thing I can do is either delete my character and start over, or fly boring Amarr ships.
Thanks CCP
CCP want you to pay to use other factions ships.
Alpha clones are simply to introduce you to Eve. If you want to move past that "introduction" stage, be able to fly more ships and use more things in the game, give that credit card a spin.

Alpha clones were never meant for you to "play Eve", just try it out for free.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1510 - 2017-01-11 00:27:08 UTC
Marmofeels wrote:
It would be really nice if you could let us use another faction's frigates
I made an Amarr character but then quickly switched over to Caldari back when faction didn't matter
Now it does and the only thing I can do is either delete my character and start over, or fly boring Amarr ships.
Thanks CCP


Why is it either or? Star a new character WITHOUT deleting the old one. Hell, start 4, one for each race. There is NOTHING stopping you. You cannot play them simultaneously unless you sub them up but if you have a need for speed, log on the Minnie, want shhhh boom missiles? Caldari time.

and you still keep the original character, simple, eh?

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Marmofeels
Kodakona
#1511 - 2017-01-11 01:20:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Marmofeels
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Marmofeels wrote:
It would be really nice if you could let us use another faction's frigates
I made an Amarr character but then quickly switched over to Caldari back when faction didn't matter
Now it does and the only thing I can do is either delete my character and start over, or fly boring Amarr ships.
Thanks CCP
CCP want you to pay to use other factions ships.
Alpha clones are simply to introduce you to Eve. If you want to move past that "introduction" stage, be able to fly more ships and use more things in the game, give that credit card a spin.

Alpha clones were never meant for you to "play Eve", just try it out for free.

The thing is, they just arbitrarily added that restriction despite races having been purely cosmetic before. I wanted to try to get into PvP but all my skills are in Caldari.
And hell, IIRC this restriction didn't even exist for the old Trial Accounts

Mike Azariah wrote:
Marmofeels wrote:
It would be really nice if you could let us use another faction's frigates
I made an Amarr character but then quickly switched over to Caldari back when faction didn't matter
Now it does and the only thing I can do is either delete my character and start over, or fly boring Amarr ships.
Thanks CCP


Why is it either or? Star a new character WITHOUT deleting the old one. Hell, start 4, one for each race. There is NOTHING stopping you. You cannot play them simultaneously unless you sub them up but if you have a need for speed, log on the Minnie, want shhhh boom missiles? Caldari time.

and you still keep the original character, simple, eh?

Making an entirely new character and having to re-train all my skills because of a limit that shouldn't be there isn't exactly something I want to do.
Also, when it comes to new players, I'm not sure people would be too hyped to have to make 4 different characters to try the game.

EDIT: Also, funny thing about that "one for each race" thing. You can have 3 characters per account, and you're only allowed to have one alpha account. So either you're gonna have to biomass or only get to try 3 of the races
Aves Asio
#1512 - 2017-01-11 10:31:23 UTC
You can have thousands of alpha accounts, you can even have them loged in all at the same time if you have enough processing power or physical machines.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1513 - 2017-01-11 11:13:38 UTC
Aves Asio wrote:
You can have thousands of alpha accounts, you can even have them loged in all at the same time if you have enough processing power or physical machines.

No you can't. Or rather it might be technically possible but if CCP notice you will get mass banned on all your accounts. So lets not encourage people to cheat.

As for the above poster, get into PvP on your Amarr ships then. You have all the supports trained already, training Amarr Frig/Destroyer is mere days even at alpha speed, in the time you've been posting here you could already be out in space with other friends doing PvP.
Marmofeels
Kodakona
#1514 - 2017-01-11 17:30:29 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Aves Asio wrote:
You can have thousands of alpha accounts, you can even have them loged in all at the same time if you have enough processing power or physical machines.

No you can't. Or rather it might be technically possible but if CCP notice you will get mass banned on all your accounts. So lets not encourage people to cheat.

As for the above poster, get into PvP on your Amarr ships then. You have all the supports trained already, training Amarr Frig/Destroyer is mere days even at alpha speed, in the time you've been posting here you could already be out in space with other friends doing PvP.

Amarr ships turned out to be really boring though, imho. I prefer missiles over lasers
Kaia Lin Garemoko
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1515 - 2017-02-23 18:35:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaia Lin Garemoko
Of all the restrictions, I think having the industrial ships with specialized cargo holds being racially-locked is the only one that only disadvantages some Alpha players and not all of them.

Minmatar have a T1 hauler with an ammo hold? Whoop-de-doo. I've literally never seen one in space, and ammo isn't something all players use as only some guns require it. But Ore? Everyone depends on ore, and only the Miasmos (Gallente) have a T1 industrial with an ore hold substantially larger than the everyone-can-fly Venture.

This would seem to require everyone to have one Gallente Alpha clone, in a way other races aren't required. Even PvP gangs robbing said Haulers must swap to a Gallente Alpha clone themselves to come pick up the loot. This would seem to mean that more Alpha clones will wind up being one race, which in my mind is just silly.

I've seen several "solutions", such as moving the Miasmos to the ORE faction, or adding specialized hauler ships to every race... but the simplest would be to simply extend an Alpha clone's available skills to cover the Industrial ships of other races. Right now it's the starter Corvette (even though you can't use the weapons on them??) and a Shuttle--moving that Omega blockage one group to the right (and obviously up to lock off Tier 2s) would solve it easily and with the least amount of work.

I don't know the details, but I can't imagine CCP wants every single-purpose hauler be one race disproportionately. This one thing isn't enough to get me to PLEX, but this one thing does become a hindrance to only certain Alpha players. I'm gonna wind up subbing anyway, but if the entire Alpha system is to remain, this lone thing doesn't seem to jive with the intent.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1516 - 2017-02-24 06:41:20 UTC
Kaia Lin Garemoko wrote:
Of all the restrictions, I think having the industrial ships with specialized cargo holds being racially-locked is the only one that only disadvantages some Alpha players and not all of them.

Minmatar have a T1 hauler with an ammo hold? Whoop-de-doo. I've literally never seen one in space, and ammo isn't something all players use as only some guns require it. But Ore? Everyone depends on ore, and only the Miasmos (Gallente) have a T1 industrial with an ore hold substantially larger than the everyone-can-fly Venture.

This would seem to require everyone to have one Gallente Alpha clone, in a way other races aren't required. Even PvP gangs robbing said Haulers must swap to a Gallente Alpha clone themselves to come pick up the loot. This would seem to mean that more Alpha clones will wind up being one race, which in my mind is just silly.

I've seen several "solutions", such as moving the Miasmos to the ORE faction, or adding specialized hauler ships to every race... but the simplest would be to simply extend an Alpha clone's available skills to cover the Industrial ships of other races. Right now it's the starter Corvette (even though you can't use the weapons on them??) and a Shuttle--moving that Omega blockage one group to the right (and obviously up to lock off Tier 2s) would solve it easily and with the least amount of work.

I don't know the details, but I can't imagine CCP wants every single-purpose hauler be one race disproportionately. This one thing isn't enough to get me to PLEX, but this one thing does become a hindrance to only certain Alpha players. I'm gonna wind up subbing anyway, but if the entire Alpha system is to remain, this lone thing doesn't seem to jive with the intent.

How about the most simple solution to your hauling issue - Have a Gal faction Alpha in fleet with you to haul.
Eve is about working in groups, what better way to start working in groups than having different faction Alpha's in the same isk making fleet.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#1517 - 2017-02-24 21:12:11 UTC
I think alphas should just be able to choose what race skillset they want to use regardless of their race. Maybe allow a new choice every 4 months or something.

Suddenly its all balanced.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1518 - 2017-02-25 00:47:06 UTC
Cearain wrote:
I think alphas should just be able to choose what race skillset they want to use regardless of their race. Maybe allow a new choice every 4 months or something.

Suddenly its all balanced.


Why not just have 4 slots instead of the current 3 for characters on an account? Then they can do one of each. Yes, I know they could make 4 accounts and many do but . . . a choices is made and consequences result. Is that not partially what Eve is about?

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1519 - 2017-02-25 01:27:49 UTC
Cearain wrote:
I think alphas should just be able to choose what race skillset they want to use regardless of their race. Maybe allow a new choice every 4 months or something.

Suddenly its all balanced.
Alphas have the choice to fly and train all Alpha skill sets at any time.
Accounts are free to start and free to play, just create alts. Much the same as Omega players do.

Within the Alpha skill sets you're only limited by your willingness to click "create new character"

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Alicia Dnari
Dnari Mining and Manufacturing
#1520 - 2017-03-04 20:27:48 UTC
Perhaps the next step is Beta clones, which will open up access to more things - T2 ships, or mining barges, or PI (or all three) for example. Or cross training other faction's ships up to cruiser. Perhaps this would come with a smaller monthly subscription fee.

CCP would have to be careful though, not to set up a situation where any significant fraction of their current subscriber base decides to downgrade their subscription.