EVE General Discussion

Yes, Eve is a PvP centred game, no doubt. The devs have made it quite clear that that has been their intention from conception.

We can also say that there is content which is geared towards PvE. And if you know what you are doing, you can be perfectly safe doing that. I'm not advocating making Hi-sec safer or any other nonsense before the bandwagon rolls up.

But I do feel for new players, who have taken the step out of safe space, only to find themselves in a situation that gives them zero chance of survival (instalock gatecamp death). The game doesn't warn you that there will be situations like that. The lowsec from hisec jump warning doesn't tell you that your ship will have died before you can even align to your next jump. Being the loser in a well fought game of cat and mouse is one thing, but this is quite another.

I think we can all agree that Eve has a steep learning curve, and if you hadn't realised quite how steep that curve is before you get chance to explore, and don't realise that you should read tutorials and have things explained to you by more experienced players, then this game can be a touch on the harsh side. Sadly there are players who will mock such new players, and say "go find an easier game n00b", rather than congratulate them on trying to take their first steps out of hisec and offer guidance.

I for example am an out and proud carebear. I will happily donate hundreds of millions of ISK to new players (good lord I'm going to get a lot of in game spam mail from this) because i can fund it from the PvE activity I quite happily while the hours away in hisec with. There is nothing wrong with this style of gameplay. People accuse me of being butthurt cos I don't like people like Code, but that's a personal thing aimed at the players individually, not game mechanics or out of personal loss or anything else.

But the OP definitely did not help his viewpoint with his choice of words and decision to quit at the first hurdle.

OT...I didn't know OUCH still existed, cool. Black Talon's EvE writings have been invaluable for me.

I mean, it is Butt-Hurt isn't it?

If you use a personal issue with a few people to tarnish a whole group as if you know them all is definitely verging on Butt-Hurt.

See i don't like CODE. either, but in reality they are normal folks who like a bit of roleplay. My dislike for them stems from the fact they don't gank for profit and don't really even pretend to be doing it for the good of Hisec anymore. In the beginning i enjoyed the content CODE. provided, but now it seems that while they are still making content it has been diluted too much to be really inspiring.

Still, the vast majority of CODE. i know are perfectly normal guys long as you don't slate their alliance on first contact, most of them still fine when you do slate the alliance

(go back to saving Hisec with a war on bots guys, you were interesting when that was the RP target)

Fixed that for ya, you're welcome.

If someone is so shallow of attention span that they see a gate camp and think that's the whole game they shouldn't be playing adult games and good riddance to the floppy little sods.

Some people just want to blame their failures on anything other than themselves. Others fail also, but try to learn what they can and improve.

One of these people will do well in EvE. The other will cry loudly on the forums about how they were real good at ze game (they cannot imagine otherwise) but ze game is broken WAAAAAAH!

It must surely be embarrassing to be so bad at a game you dedicate your time to posting butt-hurt rubbish on the forums with a meaningless alt I'm sure there are some folks who would gladly teach you not to die in flames to a gate camp. All you have to do is be a grown up and admit that since others get through them fine, the issue lies with YOU.

I disagree. I would say that if that new player reacted well to the situation he'd likely find that the people who just killed him are quite willing to help him learn about the game. Just because a bunch of guys set up on a gate and blap anything coming through does not make them assholes in real life. No really. I know that is often claim by the Bads™ that come to forums dumping a cannister of salt all over the place, but the reality is quite the opposite.

What will get you mocked, and I did it myself here in this post, is when you come to the forums all full of rage and salt and cry that the fundamental nature of the game should be changed because some of your space pixels were exploded.

Now, granted maybe the harsh nature of the game is not clear to many new players. Maybe they should be told you WILL lose ships. Nowhere is entirely safe. You are least likely to be shot in HS, but it can still happen. Your best strategy is to find other players who can help you learn the fine points of the game. But how do you do this? Some people won't read the instructions. They'll just toss them aside and plug stuff in and start trying to figure it out. If there is something there providing this advice and they ignore it....it is kind of on them.

You must have a pretty broad interpretation of the word "butt-hurt". I may be guilty of tarring all with the same brush, but given that there are no Code members in these forums who talk anything but nonsense, maybe it can be justified to some extent. As I have explained several times, and am perfectly willing to keep explaining for as long as there are people it needs explaining to, the actions of this group to take advantage of game mechanics is not my gripe. I am not (to quote urban dictionarys definition) overly offended or resentful of what Code stands for. I will be as clear as I can: it is the behaviour of particular individuals that causes my issue. Personal dislike is not the same as "butt-hurt". Butt-hurt is the fashionable insult flavour of the month for the imaginationally-impaired, a bit like people who say "triggered", or the way "get a life" was a popular insult in the 80's. The term is overused and doesn't actually mean much.

But I digress: people don't need to be concerned by Code, or hisec PvP in general, and shouldn't take it personally when this game springs unwelcome surprises on them. But it happens, because of the games unforgiving nature. And sadly we lose some players because of that. And I agree that the game would be worse if the mechanics were changed to make it safer everywhere.

The game is something like 13 or 14 years old and its current state is less design and more of a slow evolution to how players have exploited, abused and invented mechanics on top of the systems the developers made. The current game is insanely complicated and very unique in how pretty much everything is the result of player action.

In the case of gate camps, they serve to make getting goods into low/null more dangerous and there are entire systems and ways of playing to get around them. They sort of shape how low sec works in many ways. If the mechanic was removed it'd need to be replaced with something else that allowed people to lock down traffic and that lock down would need counters that experienced players could use to get around them. CCP is generally pretty wary(and rightfully so) of messing with these mechanics because it can really upset the current game balance.

The one downside is that it means new players run into these mechanical walls that have very complex aspects to them. Many areas of the game have these sort of "gotchas" to them. The best advice for new players has been, and always will be, to fly affordable ships and expect to lose them as they learn these parts of the game.

PvP isn't the problem in EVE - it's the depraved individuals that wander the space-lanes.

These players will shoot pods and rookie ships with wonton abandon just for kicks. Miners get ganked, bumped, baited, extorted and ransomed under the guise of 'teaching them how to play the game'. Insta-locking Tornados lay in wait everywhere to instantly kill unsuspecting players at gates and station undocks. 'Friendly' duel invitations and suspect station games are designed to exploit novice players. Persistent wardecs lock players in stations for days or weeks on end. Crucial mission objectives are stolen, wrecks looted and salvage operations disrupted. And this is just in high-sec...

Honestly, it's not much fun to be on the recieving end of this - especially if you're a new player. It's a rather abrupt learning curve (which some have likened to a cliff) - one where known game mechanics are continually exploited to the full advantage of experienced players. Misery loves company, and the 'tears' that feed the meat grinder in EVE are just icing on the cake to most of the sadists.

There are probably a lot of reasons EVE has never really broken into the mainstream. But maybe one of them is that some players really go out of their way to make it as bitter an experience as possible.

Also, I camp gates in lowsec. I'm constantly at risk of being ganked or ganged up on myself. I catch people in pipeline systems on their way to a highsec hub, or I sit outside a highsec gate and wait for haulers or PVP hopefulls to jump through into lowsec.

I think sitting around in HighSec and just bashing on anything that fly's by is the lowest of the low.

http://eve-gatecheck.space/eve/

Nuff said.