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so this is there real future for new players? gate camp?

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Celestial Geologics Mineral Concern
#81 - 2017-02-06 13:47:58 UTC
The only way to play Eve is with multiple characters, so much so that it's almost necessary. You can mitigate a lot of the hazards that way. They really should implement a good discount on a second account, or allow you to log in with multiple characters on the same account.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2017-02-06 14:01:47 UTC
Recettear Hariere wrote:
There are good reasons why virtually every other online game swings the banhammer on detecting multiaccounts. And nearly every other game has a sort of "season" system or regular updates that devalue the old stuff.

Only that they don't. They sometimes ban the use of multiboxing software (like Eve) but they do not typically ban multiple accounts. WoW doesn't, Archeage doesn't, Tera doesn't, Black Desert Online doesn't. What do you base this statement on?

The difference is that with Eve, Multiple characters are really useful, whereas in other MMOGs they are typically just a gimmick.

Recettear Hariere wrote:
These limits and inflation systems, think WoWs yearly? addons, serve a critical function in equalizing chances.

They devaluate the old content so you buy the new content, and that's all the reason there is to it. Those who started into the expension well prepared and well equipped will usually have the advantage, but that's not the real reason you are staying behind. You will typically see the same players achieving server first kills, high pvp ranks or whatever not because they started with the best gear, but because they put in the most effort, are often very disciplined and know the game inside out.

Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2017-02-06 17:17:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Yebo Lakatosh
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Alpha players really can't afford to lose anything

Huhh?

A lucky Probe returning from a longer 0.0 trip funds all the Rifters I can wish to lose for months. Sitting on a PLEX for a while, but don't feel like popping it. Experience isn't lost on death, and it feels more valuable than anything with a pricetag. Alpha status limits my possible losses very well.

I sometimes talk to new players who have yet to open their dscan, but flying ships worth hundreds of millions, with a head full of implants. Good for them, and good for CCP.

But unlike them, I can afford to lose anything and everything.

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#84 - 2017-02-06 17:23:17 UTC
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
A lucky Probe returning from a longer 0.0 trip funds all the Rifters I can wish to lose for months. Sitting on a PLEX for a while, but don't feel like popping it. Experience isn't lost on death, and it feels more valuable than anything with a pricetag. Alpha status limits my possible losses very well.

I sometimes talk to new players who have yet to open their dscan, but flying ships worth hundreds of millions, with a head full of implants. Good for them, and good for CCP.

But unlike them, I can afford to lose anything and everything.

If you're swimming in wealth, cash-in that PLEX and get something more expensive to fly around in. Do that for a few weeks and tell me if you can still afford to lose anything.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2017-02-06 18:32:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
If you're swimming in wealth, cash-in that PLEX and get something more expensive to fly around in. Do that for a few weeks and tell me if you can still afford to lose anything.

See, your line of thinking is twisted. You say you can't afford to loose anything, when in reality you just opt to fly something you cannot afford to loose. That is on you, and you alone. A cruiser with a mix of Meta- and T2 Modules and T1 rigs is a sensible thing to fly for an Alpha clone, because that is what your income will easily be able to support.

If you have to cash in a PLEX to afford getting the ship in the first place, then it is prudent to assume that you will probably need to cash in another one to replace it when you loose it, and you will most likely loose it.

Nobody forces you to fly a blinged out loot-piñata, and in fact, it's well known that your ROI gets worse the more bling you put on a ship.

There are plenty of affordable options out there. Just looking at the fleets going out in my rich and decadent Alliance, there are quite a few where no single ship costs more than maybe 30-40M ISK. And those are flown by Alphas, Omegas, Newbies and Veterans alike. They will get reimbursed by the Alliance anyway if lost, but even if they weren't, an Alpha could afford to loose a couple of those.

I often see Newbies in our space, making quite a lot of money, just flying a salvage destroyer. A couple hours of doing that will buy them 50 of those things. I see Alphas ratting in our space, and while they are of course not as effective as the Omega Veterans who are AFK ratting with 5 carriers at a time or gobbling up entire belts in their Rorquals, they still manage to rake in a couple dozen million ISK per hour.

It's your decision alone to fly something that your income cannot support. And decisions matter in Eve. So, you need to make better decisions, not expect the game to compensate for your bad ones.
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2017-02-06 18:42:47 UTC
If you do not want to be a predator then become canny prey. Or just be blown up.

There is no safety save that which is relative to somewhere else. Rage quit if you wish, the game shall continue.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2017-02-06 18:44:52 UTC
Hey Mike! When exactly did you stop being the "Protect newbies, make Highsec safe" guy? Or was that all just in my head to begin with?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#88 - 2017-02-06 19:13:24 UTC
Recettear Hariere wrote:
Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:


Ask yourself a question; "Many people have played this game over the years and they all were new at some point. These situations I face probably are not new, meaning many people have figured out how to deal with them. If they can do it certainly I can as surely I am at least as smart and resilient as some of those who have played this game."

Or you can rage quit. Up to you.





This kind of logic can be applied to many games, not to EVE. There are good reasons why virtually every other online game swings the banhammer on detecting multiaccounts. And nearly every other game has a sort of "season" system or regular updates that devalue the old stuff. These limits and inflation systems, think WoWs yearly? addons, serve a critical function in equalizing chances.
Not even going big on the questonable skillsystem here. really longterm, it tends to get very specialized so its more a question how many different ships someone can fly rather than how good he is with them. That doesnt excuse the existence of "waste-my-time" skills like the engineering tab but the difference between 10M and 100M SP will be rather low if both pilots are sitting in a common ship.


Think about real life for a second. When Intel started to build processors in the 70s, they had pretty much free reign over the market. their stuff back then wouldnt pass for a calculator today, but there was nobody building quadcores back then. obviously.
Would you try to start a corporation with the goal of becoming marketleader in the cpu business today, if you had the same starterfunds as intel had back then? right, the "tutorial" became better, but does that make your chances of success actually better?


Intel has no real limit to what it can push further. EVE players do. There is only so many SP you can actually use while using a ship. Sure, I can fly more different ship than a character with much less SP but a really dedicated character can easily be better in term of SP in a frigate than I am. Once you reach a certain point, more SP only give you more option which are mutually exclusive at a specific point in time. My SP in heavy interdictor are completely useless when I am flying a Logistic or a freighter.

Also to eb noted, 80% of every skill's worth in given in the very beginning. Training any skill from I to IV takes less time than IV to V while giving 4 time as much benefit.
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2017-02-06 19:20:03 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Hey Mike! When exactly did you stop being the "Protect newbies, make Highsec safe" guy? Or was that all just in my head to begin with?


Currently with the Bus I hand out pvp and pve ships to newbros. I do like hisec but I have NEVER wanted it to be 'safe' as in no pvp. Safer? sometimes. Depends on the situation but never plain safe.

No, people who dislike me try to tar me with the 'hisec carebear take pvp out of eve' label. It isn't true but lies like that have real staying power. I fly in hisec and represent carebears when others may not even acknowledge them as a part of the game but if you want safety? Stay docked or find another game.

And no, I am not running for CSM this year but I will again, someday.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Keno Skir
#90 - 2017-02-06 19:35:01 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
A lucky Probe returning from a longer 0.0 trip funds all the Rifters I can wish to lose for months. Sitting on a PLEX for a while, but don't feel like popping it. Experience isn't lost on death, and it feels more valuable than anything with a pricetag. Alpha status limits my possible losses very well.

I sometimes talk to new players who have yet to open their dscan, but flying ships worth hundreds of millions, with a head full of implants. Good for them, and good for CCP.

But unlike them, I can afford to lose anything and everything.

If you're swimming in wealth, cash-in that PLEX and get something more expensive to fly around in. Do that for a few weeks and tell me if you can still afford to lose anything.


That makes zero sense.

"you've got loads of cash, why don't you go spend it all then try to tell me you've got loads of cash?"

Because that would be literally stupid and makes a rubbish argument against anything Pirate

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#91 - 2017-02-06 19:58:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
If you lose a ship, it is always your own fault. Take responsibility for yourself. Learn. Adapt. It really isn't hard.

Ask yourself, and your attacker, what you did wrong. Learn from it. Laugh at it. Rinse and repeat.

I've lived in w-space for years, and now find myself commuting to lowsec regularly. I'm an industrialist, not a carebear.

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aforums.eveonline.com+cabalander+%22gate+to+gate%22+nulsec
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#92 - 2017-02-06 20:06:59 UTC
Vanessa Celtis wrote:
av Utama wrote:
upgraded to Omega , was fun to learn exploration , but the future not looking good...

To lose all with no time to react to stupid camp again and again
3 second , that all , you get blown up

You can tell that it's going bad if , 1 sec after jump there is warp disrupt, only 1 sec

I don't like this "pvp" system , this is ugly and bad

Rage quit


Yep, this is what they do not tell you when you upgrade, and this is what is killing the game. Gate camps and suicide ganking machines are an exploit of the game. A glitch in the design left on purpose by CCP which prevent the game to grow.


Bads™ like you are killing the game.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#93 - 2017-02-06 20:12:39 UTC
To the OP,

here http://evemaps.dotlan.net/

Look, Tama is almost always listed as one of the most dangerous systems in Low Sec. Don't go there until you are good with the cloak-MWD-and-warp technique. You can also use that to get an idea of ways to get to Low/Null Sec that are less likely to be camped.

Also, figure out how to set up your overview, how to add tabs, etc. Have a tab for "escape" so you can have lots of things you can warp to quickly and at range. Learn how to set up book marks. When you land at whatever celestial you warped to, warp back to book mark ASAP. Warp to a cluster of celestial objects too so there is less likelihood you'll be followed if they do manage to determine what direction you warped in.

This takes practice and until you refine the technique you will lose ships.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#94 - 2017-02-06 20:24:13 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
The first rule of EVE should be this: If you have anything of value, eventually (sooner as opposed to later) someone will come along and take it from you - it doesn't even matter if there is zero (or negative) financial gain in the endeavour.
That would be an axiom or a postulate, not a rule. Axioms and postulates being statements that are self evidently true.

The first rule of Eve is that you don't fly what you can't afford to lose, the axiom or postulate is that if you ignore the rule someone may well try to take it from you in one way or another,

Quote:
Once you understand the vitriolic nature of most players in EVE
The most vitriolic people in Eve are those that wish real life misfortune on those that play in a way that conflicts with their desires, strangely enough most PvPers don't match that description.

Quote:
and that there is often little if any recourse (insurance, CONCORD, bounties - ha!)
The game provides mechanics that allow you to inflict consequences over and above those provided by the game, it's just a shame that so many are loathe to learn about them, let alone use them.

Quote:
the game devolves into trying to come up with ways to deny these types of players any 'fun' - often to the detriment of your own enjoyment.
You're doing it wrong. I regularly deny others the opportunity of having ingame fun at my expense, it in no way detracts from my enjoyment of the game, if anything it enhances it.


Quoting this because it is full of good stuff.

And yes, if I manage to escape people who want to blow up my shiny stuff I am often quite happy that I pulled it off. If I happen to lose...well, well played on their part and I'll hopefully get the better of them next time.

And yes, it seems the most nasty players are not the one's blowing up ships, but those who think they should not have their ships blown up in PvP game. Go figure. In fact, after you rage, if you ask the guy(s) who blew up your ship you might find they can be helpful. Heck you might even end up shooting ships with them if you play your cards right.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2017-02-06 20:37:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Yebo Lakatosh
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
If you're swimming in wealth, cash-in that PLEX and get something more expensive to fly around in. Do that for a few weeks and tell me if you can still afford to lose anything.

Wot a strange notion to hear from an Agent..

The Code always wins, but sounds to me that ya prefer one way of that than the other. Running low on miners who seek the salvation in ISK instead of figuring out what lies ahead?

If so, good job sir Knight! I appreciate the effort either way.

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#96 - 2017-02-06 20:38:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Yet...

You (and others like you) seem bound and determined to continue defending the various deficiencies in EVE. It doesn't seem to matter that it saps any incentive to play the game, seriously deters new players and is in effect what has been killing EVE for the past decade. There's not really any point in trying to debate or discuss this, because those who favor the current sandbox really (really) enjoy their status quo.

Addendum: I wanted to add that that I'm not alone in this way of thinking. EVE has to adapt or die, and CCP is not oblivious to this. That's why in the past year alone we've seen the introduction of paid content in the form of various micro transactions: Ship SKINs, clothes, skill extractors and injectors and now custom ships. And the F2P model which was so vehemently opposed has now been grudgingly accepted as a reality.


Back when it was even easier to engage in PvP in HS such as ganks, the game grew. More players, more people. Now that it is actually harder (e.g. no insurance for your gank ships) the game is not growing.

Hmmmm....

Now it is entirely possible you are correct. That the newer generation of players are just complete pansies to whom the idea of shooting other players causes them to get the vapors. Whereas the previous generation of players were made of tougher stuff. Personally, I think that is hogwash. People are people and changes like that take a heck of a lot longer.

The issue is almost surely that CCP has taken the game in a direction contrary to its initial course. Raising the costs of war decs. Faster CONCORD response times. Removal of insurance payouts for ganking. Removal of the watchlist.

And I'll note that even with those nerfs to HS PvP we still see people often asking for additional nerfs in those categories. The mentality of "just one more nerf" is very strong with the Bads™ in this game.

Edit: Removed the last paragraph as initially it looked like the forums ate it...but I guess not.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Merias Tylar al-Akhwa
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2017-02-06 20:42:26 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Yet...

You (and others like you) seem bound and determined to continue defending the various deficiencies in EVE. It doesn't seem to matter that it saps any incentive to play the game, seriously deters new players and is in effect what has been killing EVE for the past decade. There's not really any point in trying to debate or discuss this, because those who favor the current sandbox really (really) enjoy their status quo.

Addendum: I wanted to add that that I'm not alone in this way of thinking. EVE has to adapt or die, and CCP is not oblivious to this. That's why in the past year alone we've seen the introduction of paid content in the form of various micro transactions: Ship SKINs, clothes, skill extractors and injectors and now custom ships. And the F2P model which was so vehemently opposed has now been grudgingly accepted as a reality.


Back when it was even easier to engage in PvP in HS such as ganks, the game grew. More players, more people. Now that it is actually harder (e.g. no insurance for your gank ships) the game is not growing.

Hmmmm....

Now it is entirely possible you are correct. That the newer generation of players are just complete pansies to whom the idea of shooting other players causes them to get the vapors. Whereas the previous generation of players were made of tougher stuff. Personally, I think that is hogwash. People are people and changes like that take a heck of a lot longer.

The issue is almost surely that CCP has taken the game in a direction contrary to its initial course. Raising the costs of war decs. Faster CONCORD response times. Removal of insurance payouts for ganking. Removal of the watchlist.

And I'll note that even with those nerfs to HS PvP we still see people often asking for additional nerfs in those categories. The mentality of "just one more nerf" is very strong with the Bads™ in this game.

I'll note by the way, that after all those nerfs to HS PvP we still have Bads™ such as yourself still here complaining about things and often times wanting additional nerfs in those categories.


Teckos, I just want to say what a breath of fresh air your responses in this thread have been after reading all the mollycoddling that goes on re;PVP-averse players in general discussion these days. People just do not seem to get what has made EVE into the unique beast that it is. If my browser wasn't being weird about likes you would certainly have received one from me.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#98 - 2017-02-06 20:52:40 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
To the OP,

here http://evemaps.dotlan.net/

Look, Tama is almost always listed as one of the most dangerous systems in Low Sec. Don't go there until you are good with the cloak-MWD-and-warp technique. You can also use that to get an idea of ways to get to Low/Null Sec that are less likely to be camped.


site:forums.eveonline.com cabalander tama

Where to find some pvp

TauCabalander wrote:
These are systems I usually try to avoid when not looking for a fight:

Rancer - beware of smartbomb battleships routinely sitting on gates
Amamake
Old Man Star
Tama


How (un)safe is the lowsec areas and does this happen often?
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Systems to avoid until you know what you are doing in lowsec:

* Rancer - "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."
* Amamake - FW border system, Pandemic Legion [-10.0] staging system
* Old Man Star - FW border system
* Tama - FW border system

Rancer is the smartbomb-camp capital of EvE, so one definitely doesn't want to crash the gate in a frigate, unless you are feelling lucky, or have scouted the gate.

Lowsec systems connected to hisec can be camped. Hisec systems connected to nulsec are always camped. There are a number of single system lowsec islands, surrounded by hisec, which are mostly thunderdomes, example: Aunenen

Travelling through lowsec via wormholes can be a random experience.

In general, lowsec systems in the middle of lowsec are low to no population, and see few if any visitors. Faction warfare systems tend to see more traffic. Gate camps in the middle of lowsec are very rare to non-existant.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#99 - 2017-02-07 00:55:55 UTC
Maybe if everyone would stop pushing PvP as the "holy grail" of EVE - players might be more receptive. The attitude seems to be "If I want your opinion on PvE - I'll give it to you."

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#100 - 2017-02-07 14:12:40 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
garbage



Cry more, noob.

BTW, this asshat is NOT a CODE Agent/Knight/whatever.

Just another creep that thinks a PVP-centric game that is about Blowing Up Internet Spaceships should be changed into Hello Kitty Online.

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.