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so this is there real future for new players? gate camp?

First post
Author
Merias Tylar al-Akhwa
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2017-02-05 02:33:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Merias Tylar al-Akhwa
Riverland Tully wrote:
Feel free to hit me up on Star Citizen, this nonsense doesn't happen.


Well that sounds boring. A universe where you're not free to be as good or bad as you yourself choose, and where your decisions do not have legitimate and lasting consequences, does not interest me. The fact that other players directly impact my experience and I directly impact theirs is what I like about EVE- So I'll be taking a pass on Star Citizen, kthx
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#42 - 2017-02-05 02:35:25 UTC
Riverland Tully wrote:
Feel free to hit me up on Star Citizen, this nonsense doesn't happen.

I've just started it up, where can I find you?

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#43 - 2017-02-05 03:48:54 UTC
Star Citzen Dev Conference

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2017-02-05 04:58:13 UTC
Vanessa Celtis wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Vanessa Celtis wrote:
av Utama wrote:
upgraded to Omega , was fun to learn exploration , but the future not looking good...

To lose all with no time to react to stupid camp again and again
3 second , that all , you get blown up

You can tell that it's going bad if , 1 sec after jump there is warp disrupt, only 1 sec

I don't like this "pvp" system , this is ugly and bad

Rage quit


Yep, this is what they do not tell you when you upgrade, and this is what is killing the game. Gate camps and suicide ganking machines are an exploit of the game. A glitch in the design left on purpose by CCP which prevent the game to grow.

Actually, they're precisely why the game is so popular.

To Utama: Learn how to beat them. Use instant-aligning ships to get out before they can even lock you, use ships with cloaking devices and MWDs to get out before the find and lock you, use ships with warp core stabilisers so they can't point you, use the tools (in-game and 3rd party) to gather intel about the route you intend to travel, avoid the shortest route from HiSec trade hubs to low/null, talk to people, get assistance where necessary.

The tools are there to avoid those seemingly unfair instakill-superdeath-lose-everything moments. Use them.


I have nothing against gate camps, but I think the game would encourage pvp without them I am convinced about that ! I go into camps on purpose with a 1.7s aligning interceptor, loaded with PLEX, and show them my middle finger in local each time, and even attack them with my alts. But for new player it's a pain in the ass to get around them or fight them and they need to be informed about their existence in a proper way.


Smart bombing machs said hello to your inty as it lands.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!

Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2017-02-05 06:34:08 UTC
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Have you considered Star Trek Online? No PvP

Did they 'fix' it? I was happily huting those shiney Federation cruisers trying to farm Borg in my F2P Bird of Prey.

pewpewpew, 40 bucks saucer went poof.
pewpewpew, 80 bucks saucer went poof.

Could do that all day. For a few weeks, as it got boring since noone actually lost anything. They were still complaining.

But hey, my whole crew was consisting of slave chicks with barely any clothing. Such feature!

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.

Another Posting Alt
Zerious Fricken Biziness
#46 - 2017-02-05 07:25:14 UTC
Beatnik Flanders wrote:
It's not working! We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!

Laszlo Miklos
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2017-02-05 12:05:25 UTC
I think this is just another in the long line of EVE Darwinian selection.
Adapt or die.

It's a harsh galaxy out there. You either learn from your mistakes (which, quite frankly, were pretty stupid) or you go play another less demanding/challenging game.

Your lack of experience, understanding of game mechanics, failure to learn from your mistakes and the resulting rage quit post leads me to believe that you self-identify as a cheese danish ( no offense towards the Danes intended).
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#48 - 2017-02-05 12:36:21 UTC
There is no PvP (player vs. player) in EVE - it's PvG (player vs. gang). Consential combat and fair fights don't exist. Duels are bait and switch and most suspect ships are lurking around to re-ship once they obtain a limited engagement. Low-sec is promoted by players as a means of entertainment because there is never a shortage of unsuspecting players and ships to lure into various meat grinders.

If you buy "protection" you'll still be ganked or killed. The vast majority of ships that may offer you a ransom to let you live will simply extort then kill you anyway. It's the harshest form of Darwinism. Once you realize that everything is rigged against you succeeding it all comes into focus.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Torin Corax
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2017-02-05 13:00:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Torin Corax
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Low-sec is promoted by players as a means of entertainment because there is never a shortage of unsuspecting players and ships to lure into various meat grinders.


I for one will promote low-sec because it is a great place to learn the game.
Fear of low-sec is silly, a healthy respect for the mechanics is not. Once you learn to survive and thrive in low-sec you have learned the skills required to thrive pretty much anywhere in the game. As long as you follow the most basic Eve rule (fly what you can afford to lose etc.) then there is absolutely nothing to fear in low-sec, and the experiences you find there will benefit you immensely.
This is assuming that a given individual is capable of learning from experience....not all can, and those that can't probably won't last long in Eve.
Not seen a meat grinder in low for a while, but then I don't generally operate in the busy low-sec areas, no profit in it Blink

Quote:
If you buy "protection" you'll still be ganked or killed. The vast majority of ships that may offer you a ransom to let you live will simply extort then kill you anyway. It's the harshest form of Darwinism. Once you realize that everything is rigged against you succeeding it all comes into focus.


I honor any ransom I offer....I don't generally offer ransoms.
As far as the game being rigged against you....nope. The game is rigged against everyone equally. Anything one player can do, any other player can also do. Just because someone/ group is better at it, does not make the game rigged, all you have to do is learn.

@ OP: Failure to learn is not a mechanics issue. Failure to adapt is not a mechanics issue. By all means players can disagree with, and debate the relative merits of, any mechanic they like...but if it's in the game it can be worked with/ around.

"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change."
-Charles Darwin.
Keno Skir
#50 - 2017-02-05 13:20:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
Riverland Tully wrote:
av Utama wrote:
upgraded to Omega , was fun to learn exploration , but the future not looking good...

To lose all with no time to react to stupid camp again and again
3 second , that all , you get blown up

You can tell that it's going bad if , 1 sec after jump there is warp disrupt, only 1 sec

I don't like this "pvp" system , this is ugly and bad

Rage quit


Feel free to hit me up on Star Citizen, this nonsense doesn't happen.


Yeah neither does anything else Pirate

Suck it up buttercup.

Arthur Aihaken wrote:
There is no PvP (player vs. player) in EVE - it's PvG (player vs. gang). Consential combat and fair fights don't exist. Duels are bait and switch and most suspect ships are lurking around to re-ship once they obtain a limited engagement. Low-sec is promoted by players as a means of entertainment because there is never a shortage of unsuspecting players and ships to lure into various meat grinders.

If you buy "protection" you'll still be ganked or killed. The vast majority of ships that may offer you a ransom to let you live will simply extort then kill you anyway. It's the harshest form of Darwinism. Once you realize that everything is rigged against you succeeding it all comes into focus.


There are actually several quite active channels that cater to the 1v1 crowd with some success. In reality though i don't think someone should expect to find a fair fight in any military / strategy based game. The entire point of strategy games being who can stack the cards most successfully in their favour. I always find it amusing when someone complains about "unfairness" in combat. It's not supposed to be fair in real life or in EvE and it amazes me how many people have such trouble accepting / embracing this level of realism. I think you make some fair points but cloud the meaning in sweeping statements that aren't really true :

Consential combat and fair fights don't exist.

Yeah they do Big smile you just have to do it between friends, not expect the enemy to helpfully taylor their attack to make sure it doesn't make you feel outnumbered.

Low-sec is promoted by players as a means of entertainment because there is never a shortage of unsuspecting players and ships to lure into various meat grinders.

Same as Hisec, Nul and WH space really.

I agree with you that most suspects are waiting to switch ships and that often ransoms are not honored. With that said i know several people / corps who will ALWAYS honor a ransom. Think the trick is not to get caught in the first place.

Lastly, the line you draw between PvP and PvG (this isn't a thing) is made up, it does not exist. If you are fighting solo against a million players you are doing PvP. Nobody ever promised you (nor should they ever) a fair fight.

It's possible this was an ironic post or something, sorry if you were being sarcastic or something Pirate
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#51 - 2017-02-05 13:24:51 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Riverland Tully wrote:
av Utama wrote:
upgraded to Omega , was fun to learn exploration , but the future not looking good...

To lose all with no time to react to stupid camp again and again
3 second , that all , you get blown up

You can tell that it's going bad if , 1 sec after jump there is warp disrupt, only 1 sec

I don't like this "pvp" system , this is ugly and bad

Rage quit


Feel free to hit me up on Star Citizen, this nonsense doesn't happen.


Yeah neither does anything else Pirate

Suck it up buttercup.


Well, he is right. If you don't have a game, nothing can happen. P
Salvos Rhoska
#52 - 2017-02-05 15:24:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
LS bottleneck gatecamps are crucial to what little remains of obstruction/destruction of the insane quantity of material transiting across EVE sectors with very little loss.

NS, especially player sov, is beyond the purview of this issue, as it is player based (exempting the cancer of free player sov Local data). As are WHs, where no "gates" exist anyways.

I tend to agree that targeting/lock is slightly too fast with certain hulls/fits, coupled with max skills, (to the point that server lag decides) but as weighed against fast/slow/cloaked targets, its difficult to find a common median.

As others have pointed out:
-Investigate map/DLAN.
-Scout in advance.
-Fit for tank/align/burn/cloak.

If you fly the right ship for your purpose, and fit it right, and investigate the route(s) in advance, you increase your odds.
Its possible to make it through, anywhere, but not with any random ship/fit. You have to have the right configuration, just as they have to have the right configuration to nail you.
Recettear Hariere
Kittens and Puppies Engineering Inc.
#53 - 2017-02-05 17:32:53 UTC
Played for a month now, this post will therefore be loaded with ignorance. Please bear with it.
ShahFluffers wrote:
Avoiding Gate camps:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6510125#post6510125

Edit: Some other advice...

Some general rules of thumb:

- don't take the shortest or most trafficked route. While this may make some deep, dark ancestral instinct in the back of your head recoil (because a lot of people are disposed to "stay and travel where other people are"), you need to find routes and systems that see little traffic. This will often add 3 to 7+ jumps to your journey, but it is often worthwhile.

- auto-pilot is not your friend. In high-sec, you can get away with auto-piloting... provided you are in a stupidly cheap ship that you would not mind losing or you are in a SUPER tanked ship that isn't carrying anything of real value.
Outside of high-sec, auto-piloting is a virtual death sentence.

- when in doubt, burn back to gate. This is where Microwarpdrives are very handy. If you jump into a gatecamp, stay calm. Find the stargate you came from, then quickly move towards it with your MWD activated. Jump through as soon as you are able. Do not use drones, or any offense module in any way (for this will create an aggression timer that will prevent you from jumping).

- gankers are people too! If you have a sense of humor and okay "people skills," try talking with the people who killed you. Ask them how to avoid their firepower or defend yourself. More often than not, you will be surprised by the answers they give.


edit2: I dug up another thread you can read with regards to gatecamping

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6020093#post6020093


.......................
CHAOS 1100 characters, 70-80% newbie kills?
that nobody of the much-heralded "Great Community"™ feels responsible to bomb
your Alliance back into mining corvettes says alot about the actual state of the game.

Well of course they dont. its impossible because those "consequences" and "riskvsreward" phrases dont apply to vets
with several hundred bilions in bank, hundreds of millions of SP to get back on their feet and n+1 Accounts if all else fails.

Not that it matters if it was possible because everyone in lowsec is the effing pirate king, missioning or bigger combatsites
are nigh impossible to do cuz some dimdum ganker in a T3 dessi will pop up within minutes.

Dont worry youre only one facet of the Problem that kills this game. Im sure it was a great game at some point a decade ago,
but by now it just feels to new players like they are the main "content" for a bunch of rotten sociopaths.
and the worst of it is that this atitude is rubbing off very fast. highsec is overpopulated like a damn slum, its propably natural
to start elbowing but it just makes the game unfun and depressing. again thanks in part to the clone army that the vets implemented.
want to see a billion-heavy ship? just wait for 10mins in a random highsec site.
my personal highlight was a 3 day old alt flying a rattlesnake with a gecko in tow.


IMO this game needs to ban multiaccounts and pull a hardreset,
along with some serious reworks to tackle the creation old money if it wants to survive for much longer.
And this is not just my view on things, i've heard from other newbies about it as well. Wordings like "walled off" and "static" are used here. Industrial scale newbie holocaust is just a part of it.



Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#54 - 2017-02-05 17:51:24 UTC
EVE is rigged. If you weren't in on the ground floor years and years ago, it's next to impossible to carve out any niche in the game. There are simply better and more experienced pilots, larger corporations and alliances - and not to put too fine a point on it - a phenomenal amount of wealth arrayed against any such effort.

In addition to being bombarded with a staggering amount of information and a rather steep learning curve, new players are introduced the hard way into just how sociopathic most of EVE's populace is. From being scammed, baited, extorted and outright killed for the 'lols' - new players are continually manipulated and told to HTFU or essentially get bent. White knights are too few and far between, and for every decent helpful player in EVE there are at least another dozen psychotics lurking in the shadows.

EVE truly puts the "v" in vitriol.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2017-02-05 17:55:03 UTC
Recettear Hariere wrote:
.......................
*SNIP* 1100 characters, 70-80% newbie kills?
that nobody of the much-heralded "Great Community"™ feels responsible to bomb
your Alliance back into mining corvettes says alot about the actual state of the game.

Well of course they dont. its impossible because those "consequences" and "riskvsreward" phrases dont apply to vets
with several hundred bilions in bank, hundreds of millions of SP to get back on their feet and n+1 Accounts if all else fails.

Not that it matters if it was possible because everyone in lowsec is the effing pirate king, missioning or bigger combatsites
are nigh impossible to do cuz some dimdum ganker in a T3 dessi will pop up within minutes.

Dont worry youre only one facet of the Problem that kills this game. Im sure it was a great game at some point a decade ago,
but by now it just feels to new players like they are the main "content" for a bunch of rotten sociopaths.
and the worst of it is that this atitude is rubbing off very fast. highsec is overpopulated like a damn slum, its propably natural
to start elbowing but it just makes the game unfun and depressing. again thanks in part to the clone army that the vets implemented.
want to see a billion-heavy ship? just wait for 10mins in a random highsec site.
my personal highlight was a 3 day old alt flying a rattlesnake with a gecko in tow.


IMO this game needs to ban multiaccounts and pull a hardreset,
along with some serious reworks to tackle the creation old money if it wants to survive for much longer.
And this is not just my view on things, i've heard from other newbies about it as well. Wordings like "walled off" and "static" are used here. Industrial scale newbie holocaust is just a part of it.

Hear, hear! Eve is dying.

Anyway. How did you figure the killboard link you posted (but should not have) contains mostly newbie kills? I just randomly picked some of them and checked up on those characters. They were all more than a year, some of them many years old. If you still think that "T1 Frigate" equals "Newbie", then you clearly have a lot to learn yet and are not in a good position to judge what would be good or bad for the game.
Akane Togenada
Doomheim
#56 - 2017-02-05 18:06:12 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
EVE is rigged. If you weren't in on the ground floor years and years ago, it's next to impossible to carve out any niche in the game. There are simply better and more experienced pilots, larger corporations and alliances - and not to put too fine a point on it - a phenomenal amount of wealth arrayed against any such effort.


It is VERY HARD to make it if by make it you mean hold SOV and become a major player in EVE Politics.

I do think you are wrong in your statement that it's impossible to carve out a niche for yourself in EVE. A good example would be my own Corp which have only been around for 2 years and have a quite different approach to the game then most other groups. If holding SOV and making war is all that counts then clearly we are a non-entity but if other parts of EVE are deemed as equally important then any group of players can make a difference.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#57 - 2017-02-05 18:12:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Akane Togenada wrote:
It is VERY HARD to make it if by make it you mean hold SOV and become a major player in EVE Politics.

I do think you are wrong in your statement that it's impossible to carve out a niche for yourself in EVE. A good example would be my own Corp which have only been around for 2 years and have a quite different approach to the game then most other groups. If holding SOV and making war is all that counts then clearly we are a non-entity but if other parts of EVE are deemed as equally important then any group of players can make a difference.

Provided you can stay under the radar and as long as you don't become too much of a threat to anyone else, you'll do fine. But raise or perk enough interest and you'll soon find yourself the focus of numerous war decs and mercenary corporations that descend upon you.

Stay small, think small and you'll probably survive (at least for a time). But entertain any thoughts of ambition or grandoise notions and you'll soon find yourself served up as content for someone's sole entertainment.

There's a reason EVE's population has been in steady decline. Most have figured out that the only way to win EVE is to not play in the first place.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2017-02-05 18:13:46 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
EVE is rigged. If you weren't in on the ground floor years and years ago, it's next to impossible to carve out any niche in the game. There are simply better and more experienced pilots, larger corporations and alliances - and not to put too fine a point on it - a phenomenal amount of wealth arrayed against any such effort.

In addition to being bombarded with a staggering amount of information and a rather steep learning curve, new players are introduced the hard way into just how sociopathic most of EVE's populace is. From being scammed, baited, extorted and outright killed for the 'lols' - new players are continually manipulated and told to HTFU or essentially get bent. White knights are too few and far between, and for every decent helpful player in EVE there are at least another dozen psychotics lurking in the shadows.

EVE truly puts the "v" in vitriol.

Would you say that the following statement is true:

Quote:
Star Craft is rigged. If you weren't in on the ground floor years and years ago, it's next to impossible to carve out any niche in the game. There are simply better and more experienced players, and larger clans and competitive gaming communities.

In addition to being bombarded with a staggering amount of information and a rather steep learning curve, new players are introduced the hard way into just how sociopathic most of Star Crafts community is. From being Zergling-rushed to towered in to outright overrun for the 'lols' - new players are continually manipulated and told to HTFU or essentially get bent. White knights are too few and far between, and for every decent helpful player in Star Craft there are at least another dozen psychotics lurking in the shadows.

Star Craft truly puts the "v" in vitriol.


The only factor that really matters here is experience. And by that I mean experience in playing the game, not skillpoints you have. And that is something newbies will always face when picking up a competitive game a couple years after release. What are devs supposed to do about it? Prohibit players from learning how the game is played? Tell them to forget all the tricks they have learned over the years?

Everything else you can easily catch up to once you have the experience thing down. And some newbies learn rather quickly, I have to say. I've seen fairly new players pull off some amazing feats. Just because it may be impossible for you to l2p, that does not mean it's impossible.

Akane Togenada wrote:
It is VERY HARD to make it if by make it you mean hold SOV and become a major player in EVE Politics.

Exactly. This is true for everyone - new and old players alike. Unless you are a major player, no matter if you have ever been one or have stopped being one for one reason or another (and history shows that this does happen), it will be hard to take a foothold in sov nullsec. Building an empire is hard - whoda thunck it?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#59 - 2017-02-05 18:18:14 UTC
I can't believe you're actually trying to compare Starcraft and EVE (or maybe you meant Star Citizen?) I don't really think you can draw any comparisons between the two other than that Starcraft has been more successful and appealed to a wider player base.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Recettear Hariere
Kittens and Puppies Engineering Inc.
#60 - 2017-02-05 18:23:45 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:

Hear, hear! Eve is dying.

Anyway. How did you figure the killboard link you posted (but should not have) contains mostly newbie kills? I just randomly picked some of them and checked up on those characters. They were all more than a year, some of them many years old. If you still think that "T1 Frigate" equals "Newbie", then you clearly have a lot to learn yet and are not in a good position to judge what would be good or bad for the game.


Well sorry about that, the extensive editing to make this post forum appropiate seems to have ripped some of the meaning. people can survive years with inoperable cancer as well. its obvious in my eyes that the game is stagnating on a slow but steady downward tendency.
I'm also well aware that t1 frigate doesnt equal noob. maybe "mostly" is also exaggerrated. maybe not, because i know firsthand how often these "people" camp on the next-best high-low gate near my startersystem with 20 ships. something that this board very decidedly reflects.

Not that my words could convince you to think about it. your bunch is as much part of the problems.
That you are still the biggest and arguably mightiest corp in the game after losing what sounds like the biggest war in the history of the game should be quite the hint that something is broken, no?
Maybe i'm just trying to shift blame for my own problems in the game to some rather anonymous entites. but i am certainly not alone in this view on things.

Arthur Aihaken wrote:
EVE is rigged. If you weren't in on the ground floor years and years ago, it's next to impossible to carve out any niche in the game. There are simply better and more experienced pilots, larger corporations and alliances - and not to put too fine a point on it - a phenomenal amount of wealth arrayed against any such effort.

In addition to being bombarded with a staggering amount of information and a rather steep learning curve, new players are introduced the hard way into just how sociopathic most of EVE's populace is. From being scammed, baited, extorted and outright killed for the 'lols' - new players are continually manipulated and told to HTFU or essentially get bent. White knights are too few and far between, and for every decent helpful player in EVE there are at least another dozen psychotics lurking in the shadows.

EVE truly puts the "v" in vitriol.


As described here very well. thank you for this.