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Alpha Clones serious mining restrictions...

Author
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#61 - 2017-01-08 03:10:31 UTC
ShockedRoll

This is getting ridiculous.

Remove standings and insurance.

Kousaka Otsu Shigure
#62 - 2017-01-08 03:52:36 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
ShockedRoll

This is getting ridiculous.


Well, this was posted early on 2016-11-18.

But if you're pointing out the people who replied after all these time, then yeah, it's time to stop beating the horse.

Archiver, Software Developer and Data Slave

Current Project Status: What can I make with these minerals?

Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#63 - 2017-01-08 04:16:55 UTC
Going from Omega to Alpha character gives me a bit of insight.

First of all I am against mining. It is boring as hell. Go do anything else, including smashing your testicles in a hydraulic press for more fun.

I do think they should get Astrogeology at level 1 or 2. No to mining barges.

I also think that they should have basic access to research. Mostly for copying blueprints to make ammo from salvaged minerals.

Otherwise, get that PLEX or sub and enjoy the game.

This is why CCP set it up this way.
Marcus Binchiette
Federal Vanguard
#64 - 2017-01-08 12:37:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Binchiette
Keno Skir wrote:
It's not like there are 10 different "kinds" of mining someone might want to have a go at, like there is with combat. A combat orientated char might want to do missions, PvP, exploration, incursions or sleeper sites to name a few, all of which require different styles of fitting and different hulls. Mining is literally just pointing a mining beam at a rock and waiting, ergo you can experience the vast majority of it from a venture.


Says the guy who probably hasn't done much mining. There are many different aspects to mining. There is hisec, lowsec, and nullsec fleet mining. Which require varying degrees of experience with defensive PvP. Combating pirates, gate camps and gankers. There is ninja gas harvesting in wormholes, lowsec solo venture mining. Lowsec fleet mining, Ice mining, cloaked exploration frigate mining, With different ships, fits, and techniques.

At it's essence, mining is a PvP activity. The only difference between this and conventional combat PvP is that you are going into a combat zone with a ship which is not properly equipped to fight. Instead of seeking to make kills, the object of mining is to harvest the ore, avoid enemy contact, and get home alive. It is not simply a matter of pointing lasers at rocks and pressing F1 and F2.

Limiting alphas to Ventures entirely mitigates their usefulness at doing any kind of industry or mining fleet interaction. As the yield which a Venture can produce is very minor when harvesting ore. Such that it is often a complete waste of time. I commonly find that there is no point including alpha's in our mining fleets and encourage them to stick to doing ratting or missions.

Which is a shame. Because they are missing out on those opportunities to interact during fleet operations.... The only real success I've had with alpha's mining in fleet has been excursions into lowsec using Porpoise + Procurer + Venture.
Keno Skir
#65 - 2017-01-08 15:50:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
It's not like there are 10 different "kinds" of mining someone might want to have a go at, like there is with combat. A combat orientated char might want to do missions, PvP, exploration, incursions or sleeper sites to name a few, all of which require different styles of fitting and different hulls. Mining is literally just pointing a mining beam at a rock and waiting, ergo you can experience the vast majority of it from a venture.


Says the guy who probably hasn't done much mining. There are many different aspects to mining. There is hisec, lowsec, and nullsec fleet mining. Which require varying degrees of experience with defensive PvP. Combating pirates, gate camps and gankers. There is ninja gas harvesting in wormholes, lowsec solo venture mining. Lowsec fleet mining, Ice mining, cloaked exploration frigate mining, With different ships, fits, and techniques.

At it's essence, mining is a PvP activity. The only difference between this and conventional combat PvP is that you are going into a combat zone with a ship which is not properly equipped to fight. Instead of seeking to make kills, the object of mining is to harvest the ore, avoid enemy contact, and get home alive. It is not simply a matter of pointing lasers at rocks and pressing F1 and F2.

Limiting alphas to Ventures entirely mitigates their usefulness at doing any kind of industry or mining fleet interaction. As the yield which a Venture can produce is very minor when harvesting ore. Such that it is often a complete waste of time. I commonly find that there is no point including alpha's in our mining fleets and encourage them to stick to doing ratting or missions.

Which is a shame. Because they are missing out on those opportunities to interact during fleet operations.... The only real success I've had with alpha's mining in fleet has been excursions into lowsec using Porpoise + Procurer + Venture.


It has little to do with your pre-conceived notions about my playstyle. If Alphas are allowed to fly mining barges they will have too much control over the ore markets for the good of the game.

"Limiting alphas to Ventures entirely mitigates their usefulness at doing any kind of industry or mining fleet interaction."

^ This isn't really true is it. They can have a small effect, which you decided isn't elite enough to fly with you Roll

My original point is that while you are correct that mining is a form of PvP like everything in eve, it is the PvP aspects that deserve the love, not the kind of ship you're actually mining rocks with. In fact, since the Venture is the most difficult t1 mining craft to catch it is actually the perfect hull to explore all the dangerous aspects of mining you literally just listed.
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#66 - 2017-01-08 23:12:07 UTC
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
It's not like there are 10 different "kinds" of mining someone might want to have a go at, like there is with combat. A combat orientated char might want to do missions, PvP, exploration, incursions or sleeper sites to name a few, all of which require different styles of fitting and different hulls. Mining is literally just pointing a mining beam at a rock and waiting, ergo you can experience the vast majority of it from a venture.


There are many different aspects to mining.

That is the sentence that made me laugh. There are no different aspects to mining. There is mining and that is it.

Whether it is high, low, null, wormholes, ice, asteroid or gas...it is sitting there staring at whatever you are sucking with a bored look on your face, most of the time not even at your keyboard.

I laugh every time people complain about being ganked and now at the 'Alpha Entitlement' posts that have been cropping up recently.

Yes, I am an Alpha toon myself. I am not asking for anything more than what CCP has given. It is my choice not to have a sub and enjoy the full aspect of the game. If you want to experience it too, EARN IT with a PLEX or subscription.

Otherwise, suck it up buttercup.

Hello Kitty World is that way -------->

Sheesh... Roll
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
Transgress
#67 - 2017-01-08 23:43:15 UTC
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
Says the guy who probably hasn't done much mining.

i however have and im with him 100%

mining is mining is mining, regardless of where you do it its always the same mining

regardless of ice,ore,gass,high low wh or null,
its always the same.
now the areas you are in have varying degrees of risk associated true
but thats an aspect of that space and nothing to do with what you do there.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2017-01-09 05:01:47 UTC
fleet mining and solo mining to two completely different things. Also high sec versus null versus wormhole totally different experiences.

If you don't like mining then you don't like mining and that is fine. But please don't try to invalidate someone's experience of that aspect of the game just because it's different from yours.

I personally don't care for PvP, and to me all PvP is pretty much the same. But I'm not trying to tell people who enjoy it that it's not fun and all the same. I understand that they have a different experience of it than I do and I don't try to tell them that they are wrong because their experience differs from mine.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Chihuahuaraffe
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2017-01-09 20:10:16 UTC
Heh, people should have to start out mining in a combat frigate with one laser into a jetcan, juggling a first tier industrial ship flying back and forth.

Then they might appreciate the Venture when they get one!

The problem is that the tutorials hand out a stack of 2-3 Ventures to people and they're like "Meh. Now show me something better than this."

The Venture is amazing. It mines, it hauls ore, it even carries pets that will kill your belt rats for you when you aren't even paying attention.

Kids these days.
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#70 - 2017-01-09 22:32:16 UTC
Chihuahuaraffe wrote:
Heh, people should have to start out mining in a combat frigate with one laser into a jetcan, juggling a first tier industrial ship flying back and forth.

Then they might appreciate the Venture when they get one!

The problem is that the tutorials hand out a stack of 2-3 Ventures to people and they're like "Meh. Now show me something better than this."

The Venture is amazing. It mines, it hauls ore, it even carries pets that will kill your belt rats for you when you aren't even paying attention.

Kids these days.



Good point. Ah the memories of cargo rigged Probe frigates while mining. That first jet can being stolen. The endless zipping back and forth afterwards....

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet

Chihuahuaraffe
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2017-01-10 02:06:05 UTC
MadMuppet wrote:

Good point. Ah the memories of cargo rigged Probe frigates while mining. That first jet can being stolen. The endless zipping back and forth afterwards....

Somewhere on my 2007 vintage character I think I have a Dominix with 8 mining lasers still equipped.
Kathern Aurilen
#72 - 2017-01-14 02:29:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Kathern Aurilen
Valkyrie Harkonnen wrote:
Mining isn't that bad as an Alpha player. The lack of cloaking for exploration and PI option is what really cripples the experience being an Alpha.

I been out of eve for a couple years, I fell off just after the Venture was introduced due to computer dying of overheat exhaustion Sad.

I came back as an alpha and wished I could get access to my PI knowing that there was loads of T3 stuff waiting to pick up. Oops I played as an alpha for a month to get back in the swing of things before I reSUBed.

I missed my Mack and HULK, missed my my Orca(who I lovingly named Stacking Chedda)

But I understand, what was to stop me as a Alpha(or me a hundred Alphas with free accounts) setting dozens and dozens of planets and just swap accounts to update the PI and nothing else from those accounts. Shoot you already have 3 characters to set up PI on one Omega account . I know if I could I would set up a bunch of planets FOR FREE if I could. Thats just easy & free PLEX funding.

As far as cloaking, I never trained up enough to be any good. I was wanting to train it up for Black ops bomber(AWESOME lol) on an alt.

Thats something to strive for. Give me reasons to sub to eve.

No cuts, no butts, no coconuts!

Forum alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew!

Kathern Aurilen
#73 - 2017-01-14 03:08:40 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:
" the venture is full within a few minutes" this is your key words, it gets full fast, I mine, I still use a venture, it's a great little ship, if your purely looking at ISK then an Alpha clone is not what you want, you want a sub if you are going after ISK, if you are going for fun then an Alpha is fine as you are able to do the "fun thing"
I agree the venture is a very good ship to mine in for an Alpha. 5000m3 and boost on mining lasers. I pull out mine to keep busy when I'm not wanting to eyes to glaze over. I like it its very fun.

I've had the calculator and and crunched the times with my skills at max for Venture(just t2 lasers not bore lasers) and max for my Macknaw(with 2 t2 laser upgrades).

Me in my Mack fills the cargo in 32 mins(i think) to fill 35000m3 of ore

Me in my Venture pulls that in 81 mins... Big difference but not near as big as you think.

Venture takes at least 3 skill sets(times 5 levels) less than the Exumers and still making good bank. PLUS you not just setting there not doing anything for 30 mins waiting for it to fill.

No cuts, no butts, no coconuts!

Forum alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew!

Oraac Ensor
#74 - 2017-01-14 03:34:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Oraac Ensor
Chihuahuaraffe wrote:
Somewhere on my 2007 vintage character I think I have a Dominix with 8 mining lasers still equipped.

We'll have to introduce it to my similarly-equipped Rokh, parked gathering dust in my home station. They must be getting a bit lonely these days.
Alicia Dnari
Dnari Mining and Manufacturing
#75 - 2017-01-14 20:34:36 UTC
Maybe I'm mis-reading some of this, but the OP asked for access to mining barges - i.e., to the mining barge skill. This would require access to Spaceship Command I, Mining Frigate III, Industry V, Mining IV, Science IV, and Astrogeology III. Some of those the alpha clone can already access, some not. I have no opinion at the moment on whether alpha clones should have access to those additional skills, nor on whether access to the mining barge skill would crash the mineral market. I suppose that depends on how successful CCP's effort to get free-to-play players into the game is.

What the OP did not ask for was free mining barges, or free skill books, for alpha clones.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#76 - 2017-01-14 20:57:11 UTC
Ah the good old days of mining frigates and cruisers, I still have a bait Osprey somewhere.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

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Alicia Dnari
Dnari Mining and Manufacturing
#77 - 2017-01-14 21:04:45 UTC
Morgan Agrivar wrote:
First of all I am against mining. It is boring as hell. Go do anything else, including smashing your testicles in a hydraulic press for more fun.

You're of course entitled to your opinion of what is and is not fun for you. You're also of course not entitled to define what is fun for anyone else.
Alicia Dnari
Dnari Mining and Manufacturing
#78 - 2017-01-14 21:10:13 UTC
Ugly Cable wrote:
In this case they should not call the game FREE TO PLAY, but PAY TO WIN or FREE TO TRY. Those lying marketing manipulators Big smile
I would say it's classic "Save the game from extinction" technique. Don't worry in an year it will be completely free to play without the Alpha/Omega garbage.

Hm. I would define "winning" a MMORPG as "continuing to have fun playing it". I have yet to find myself not having fun playing EVE.

If in a year EVE will be completely free to play, within two it will be gone. Which would be a shame, as IMO it's still the best game ever. Well, maybe except for Clan Lord, but that's a very special case, and will not be everyone's cup of tea.
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2017-01-15 03:33:49 UTC
What I still dont get is why no mining drones.

Trial accounts had mining drones., alphas no mining drones.
A venture can only carry 2 anyway. It's not even like people would be using t2 mining drones or Ice harvesting or big rorq drones.
Just regular mining drone 1s. Makes no sense.
Akane Togenada
Doomheim
#80 - 2017-01-15 10:51:12 UTC
It's almost as if CCP want to steer then Alphas into PvP ... I wonder if that might be because all studies that have ever been done on player retention shows that players who participate in PvP early on are most likely to stay in the game.

If you look at say Explorers they also have 1 ship to fly, their basic Tier 1 exploration frigate, and unlike the Venture they canĀ“t even fit it properly since cloaking is an Omega skill. Still many players say that exploration is great for alphas while mining appearantly is not. Might it be the activity itself and not the ship one get's to use that's the real difference.