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Alpha Clones serious mining restrictions...

Author
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2016-11-18 17:56:23 UTC
FQPW wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
Combat is LOADS more complicated than mining. If you could use a barge would you ever sub? I doubt it for the extra few % the better lasers will get you..

It's not like there are 10 different "kinds" of mining someone might want to have a go at, like there is with combat. A combat orientated char might want to do missions, PvP, exploration, incursions or sleeper sites to name a few, all of which require different styles of fitting and different hulls. Mining is literally just pointing a mining beam at a rock and waiting, ergo you can experience the vast majority of it from a venture.

If you want to make money from mining as an Alpha take your Venture to a wormhole, it is not as bad as you think it is ;)


Of course I would sub if I see potential in mining & industry.
But you clearly don't see the point I am trying to make.
Now it's just annoying since doing missions give 10x profit plus standing.
Plus the venture is full within a few minutes.
And yeah combat pilots have more options but that just shows that its more fun to play as a combat pilot instead of trying to get more people to mine and go into the industry path of the game.
Like I said you only have a venture and most industrial and trade skills are locked out.
New players can even explores these things to a medium level.
Where combat pilots can do a shitload like you mentioned plus have a lot of combat related skills.

Basically an Alpha Clone looks like its made for 80% combat players and 20% industry (if not less...) players.


Ventures are still going to take around 15 minutes to get a full ore hold, which is not that different from mining barges.

And of course missions are going to give 10x the profits(a bit exaggerating here but okay) and standings, because you cant warp to a mission site, activate your weapons and go afk.

And you are still completely wrong. Ventures provide the perfect ships to enter wormholes to gas mine in, which is medium level gameplay.

Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2016-11-18 18:09:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
Maekchu wrote:
Maybe you should look into ninja gas huffing.

I don't think Alphas get the Gas Huffing skill, but I might be mistaken there.
Maekchu
Doomheim
#23 - 2016-11-18 18:30:16 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Maekchu wrote:
Maybe you should look into ninja gas huffing.

I don't think Alphas get the Gas Huffing skill, but I might be mistaken there.

Checked. They can use the Gas Cloud Harvester I.
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#24 - 2016-11-18 18:44:56 UTC
I think the hint here is to not let yourself be a one-trick-pony. Try running some Combat Anoms in between some mining sessions or look for relic sites, etc. Eve Online is huge!

So if you decide you do want to take all your mining skills to level V, then subscribe. Blink

@lunettelulu7

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#25 - 2016-11-18 18:52:25 UTC
FQPW wrote:
Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners.


How much better do you think mining barges are? As your skills improve, the gap between mining income and other forms of income grows wider.

You can drastically improve your mining efficiency by finding people to work with in a fleet. There's no need to upgrade to barges to make the Alpha clone experience more enjoyable.

If you're after a higher income, consider speculative hauling, distribution missions or security missions.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#26 - 2016-11-18 22:04:52 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
FQPW wrote:
Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners.


How much better do you think mining barges are? As your skills improve, the gap between mining income and other forms of income grows wider...


That was true 4 days ago. Now not so much.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2016-11-19 02:05:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Matthias Ancaladron
Keno Skir wrote:
Bagatur I wrote:
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:
I agree. Alphas can't log in simultaneously under threat of Permaband so they can't feasibly crash the value of materials.
The real question is: which skills should be decreased so that alphas can fly barges?
That 5m sp cap is the big thing here.


where do you get this SP can bs? alphas can freely train within the skillset available to alphas. that is it.


Wut? It's been regularly mentioned on forums and dev publications that the chosen skills for each race add up to a 5 Mil SP cap (approx). That's where everyone's getting this "BS" from.... ...

There's no actual cap on sp.
The skills are capped and once you have trained each one to what an alpha allows it roughly equals 5m depending on which skill tree you get. Amarr has the fewest number of skill levels, then gallente Caldari and minmatar.
There's a spreadsheet around here somewhere. Iirc it lists minmatar as 306-307 levels and amarr in the 290s. So in theory a fully trained min account would have more sp than an amarr account depending on how the levels are distributed maybe amarr has 1-2 fewer skills but they go to higher levels to equal it out.
But there's no point where you 5m sp and it locks you down from training skills, the skills are predetermined and you can train only those skills.

A 5m sp cap is a misnomer assuming all of that is correct and I didn't misread something.
Essentially the same thing just technically not a sp cap. A skill cap that also just happens to be around 5m sp
Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#28 - 2016-11-19 03:47:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Sitting Bull Lakota
Technically, you're right. There isn't a hard 5,000,000sp and your queue shuts down kind of limit.
They've been described as being skillable to "roughly 5 miion skillpoints" by CCP. Anytime someone suggests increasing alpha skills, I like to ask which skills should be lowered to accomodate the new increase while keeping the total at "roughly 5 million."

CCP will likely not allow Alphas to train above 5m sp for one big reason. You get three guesses and the first two don't count.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2016-11-19 06:57:45 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
FQPW wrote:
Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners.


How much better do you think mining barges are? As your skills improve, the gap between mining income and other forms of income grows wider...


That was true 4 days ago. Now not so much.

Why? Mining is not an ISK faucet.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Stryffe Darkholm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2016-11-19 08:37:21 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Why? Mining is not an ISK faucet.


I'm not sure why you all keep asking him that. He's said he truly enjoys mining and industry, some people just do. My wife always enjoys the crafting side of games more than the combat. I agree with him here. if a player wants to specialize and make his way with industry and not combat, even as an Alpha clone he should be allowed to. To a point at least.


Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#31 - 2016-11-19 09:52:49 UTC
There is nothing stopping an Alpha clone joining a fleet for mining or missions or PVP.

The range of ships for top-level miners is pretty much Ventures, Expedition, Barges, Exhumers. End of story.

The range of ships for Omega pilots includes Covert ops, Recon, Electronic warfare, battlecruisers, battleships, capitals, supercapitals, marauders, black ops, logistics, command ships, etc.

Thus the range of ships available to Alpha clones for mining is just as representative as the range of ships available for other activities. Alpha accounts are not intended to be satisfying gameplay on their own: they are a way to try out EVE for an extended period while you learn how the game actually works, make some friends, and then decide to subscribe to make their in-game contribution more powerful.

As for opening up Mining Barge to Alphas, here are the skills CCP would have to allow Alphas to train in addition to what they already have access to:

  • Astrogeology 3
  • Mining Barge 1


Once they get access to barges, why not battleships, cloaking devices, ME/PE research, invention … ?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#32 - 2016-11-19 09:54:02 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
FQPW wrote:
Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners.


How much better do you think mining barges are? As your skills improve, the gap between mining income and other forms of income grows wider...


That was true 4 days ago. Now not so much.

Why? Mining is not an ISK faucet.


Who said it was? We're talking income here. CCP have just drastically raised the maximum income that one can earn from mining.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2016-11-19 11:07:25 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
FQPW wrote:
Please improve the mining capabilities for Alpha Cloners.


How much better do you think mining barges are? As your skills improve, the gap between mining income and other forms of income grows wider...


That was true 4 days ago. Now not so much.

Why? Mining is not an ISK faucet.


Who said it was? We're talking income here. CCP have just drastically raised the maximum income that one can earn from mining.

Sure? Won't ore/mineral prices not just go down and compensate for more volume hitting the market? As long there is not also more demand for minerals, mining more does not give you more income.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Shaikura Kutungi
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2016-11-19 14:55:12 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
Eve is not free to play. Eve is free to try.


Yeah i'm discovering that this is true. F2p is really restrictive and meant for you to become sub. Just like swtor is.
Cepheus Antollare
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2016-11-19 17:20:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Cepheus Antollare
how about allowing alpha clones to use mining Drones I & II
mining drones don't really do much other than reduce the time needed to get 5000m3 of ore by a min or two at best..... which is insignificant in the grand scheme of things

personally I don't want access to barges as an alpha... I just want access to astrogeology and being able to use mining drones (keyword is astrogeology and mining drones)
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2016-11-19 20:24:10 UTC
Cepheus Antollare wrote:
how about allowing alpha clones to use mining Drones I & II
mining drones don't really do much other than reduce the time needed to get 5000m3 of ore by a min or two at best..... which is insignificant in the grand scheme of things

personally I don't want access to barges as an alpha... I just want access to astrogeology and being able to use mining drones (keyword is astrogeology and mining drones)

You can use mining drone 1s, but a venture can only carry two and you're better off having drones that can kill npcs.
Ventures limited to 2 mining lasers also.
Cepheus Antollare
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2016-11-19 21:18:29 UTC
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
Cepheus Antollare wrote:
how about allowing alpha clones to use mining Drones I & II
mining drones don't really do much other than reduce the time needed to get 5000m3 of ore by a min or two at best..... which is insignificant in the grand scheme of things

personally I don't want access to barges as an alpha... I just want access to astrogeology and being able to use mining drones (keyword is astrogeology and mining drones)

You can use mining drone 1s, but a venture can only carry two and you're better off having drones that can kill npcs.
Ventures limited to 2 mining lasers also.


alpha's can't use mining drones at all
Darth Kendari
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2016-11-19 22:25:21 UTC
Classic give them an inch they want to take a mile.

CCP did extensive work on the skills for Alphas, including the CSM. Many of the restrictions came from the "players" suggestions.

Alphas have MORE than enough skills and time to "explore" eve on a perma trial basis.

People "really" wanted to play EVE close to fully skilled and pay NOTHING and are just not being honest about it.

GTFO with that lame arse garbage.
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2016-11-19 23:04:13 UTC
For CCP to make money there needs to be a difference between alpha and omega lifestyles for players. This is just one aspect of the overall plan. If they were so silly as to actually listen to this suggestion tell me where CCP would make their money from mining players.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Alaric Faelen
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#40 - 2016-11-19 23:14:58 UTC
Darth Kendari wrote:
Classic give them an inch they want to take a mile.....


--didn't take long, did it?