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[December] Defender Missiles

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Gizzie Haslack
4249003
#221 - 2016-12-16 01:36:46 UTC
May Arethusa wrote:
Quote:
Adding Cov Ops AND Defender Missile capabilities might just fix teh AF.


Yeah... No.

Assault Frigates are just as capable as they used to be. The issue lies in the recent additions around them, T3Ds and Command Destroyers. I fail to see your logic in retasking an Assault Frigate to a defensive role.



I just don't see the point with them when you can run a Dessie in pretty much every role an Assault Frigate does. Adding some zing could be fun. Having a 'summat' that can fly Cov-Ops and mount a Defender AND do a little Blapping too could compliment a Bomber-wing nicely.



Oh, and as for solo-bombing I found this:

https://puu.sh/rlngQ.mp4

I think it works nicely :)
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#222 - 2016-12-16 14:38:28 UTC
Gizzie Haslack wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Chenguang Hucel-Ge wrote:
I'm not into PvP that much, but hey, defenders sound way too OP. Still, If you insist on adding one, please do it, but not without a tool to counter this one.

Behold, duds.

We have Bomb Launcher and then we add another launcher, let's call it "Bar I".
Same fitting requirements of Bomb Launcher, roughly on par everything else.
The difference is charge used. It's a dud, let's call it "Misericorde I". Cheaper than carbon, does no damage at all.
The trick though, these are launched 3 per cycle, allowing for mild space saturation, thus providing some damage loss mitigation at cost of extra man on the field.



nope the counter is bluff runs/more bombs per run 7 is no longer the holy number



Launching duds for the real bombs to hide amongst is a reasonable strategy. If the defenders chase a dud then that is handy stuff.


Or just launch more bombs and be sure all that went through exploded instead of the RNG of defenders sometimes wiping your real bombs and only duds getting through.
Rei Y
Minmatar Citizen 90483936 Corporation
#223 - 2016-12-16 16:26:11 UTC
didnt see it on the first 2 pages - do these changes apply to NPC defender missiles? 75% chance of defender missiles on team burners pretty much canceled out 75% DPS on missile boats.
Aischa Montagne
Blut-Klauen-Clan
#224 - 2016-12-17 08:37:58 UTC
I have a bit hard time understanding what Problems you guys have.
Do you realy want to do less Bombing runs because they are one little, not very effective counter ability on the battle field?

Please, think again. Do you realy believe that we will see huge destroyer fleets against Bomber run that has no love with a majority of FCs currently flying?

I have strong doubts that defender missles will have a big impact. I see some exceptations of course. I think people might scramble into Destroyers when they learn a bomber fleet tries attack something stationary. This is not to bad.

However, I see a lot of Potential in the tech of Defender Missles. Maybe in future we see more effective Bombs, with more effective options to decoy, and with more effective way to shoot those Bombs down.
Sounds good. And I like the Idea to get there in small steps much more appealing then in one huge Blob that is probably unbalanced and not working.

I realy like that defender Missles are now somewhat usefull. Until now skilled Capsuleer did not looked at defender missles twice. Now I think even the skilled pilots might want to fit one of those occationly. And that for me is a huge improvement before. Even if the impact in total is little at this point of time.

congrats CCP. I realy like this step by step approach of yours. And I would like to see more openness for smaller changes on the community side.

Aischa
Kellasana
FireStar Inc
#225 - 2016-12-18 02:23:41 UTC
Thing you bombing whiners REALLY need to get through your heads too, is the fact that Defenders are, as has been said ad infinitum, RNG targetting. you guys seriously think every fleet you're going to bomb is going to be guarded by destroyers COVERED in defender launchers? Highly freaking doubt it. also, bear in mind, they'd have to be in range too, and activated on time.

All you really need to do is just figure out which area to approach the fleet from would be best, or, you know, wait until their fleet is distracted, or several other tactical advantages.

giving alphas the ability to have a dedicated and handy role in null fleets will make them want to be in them more, and will lead to more people eventually subbing so they can do more than just that.

Granted, I to would like to see new changes show up for bombers as well, but We all just need to adapt with the times, rather than whine on and on about how things used to be, or how unfair things are.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#226 - 2016-12-18 02:25:32 UTC
what are you talking about most destroyers have the one utility high needed to fit the max number of these and the amount of atention needed to use them is easily low enough to just have alts anchored to your fleets

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Redwood Tyx
Asteroid Farm Unlimited
Goonswarm Federation
#227 - 2016-12-21 20:37:28 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:


...

Defender Launchers
The Defender Launcher I can only load Defender Missiles. It may only be fit to Destroyer class vessels (Destroyers, Interdictors, Command Destroyers and Tactical Destroyers). Once activated, it will scan local space for any bombs,and if it finds one within range, launch a defender missile to intercept it. If it doesn't find any bombs within range, it will still cycle.
The Defender Launcher I has a 120 second reactivation timer. It doesn't require a launcher hardpoint, and has low fitting requirements (10 cpu, 2 powergrid), but uses some capacitor (50gj) to activate. You can only fit one defender launcher.

...




Why couldn't you just made it so the player could choose if he want a defender launcher on his e.g Sabre, why make a launcher slot so that we loose one hi-slot if we do not want this defender missile thingy?

I been playing several years and id been attacked one time from a bomb! ONE time!!!
But I have used the 8th slot every time I fly with my Sabre!!!

Do it again, do it right!
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#228 - 2016-12-21 21:08:50 UTC
Redwood Tyx wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:


...

Defender Launchers
The Defender Launcher I can only load Defender Missiles. It may only be fit to Destroyer class vessels (Destroyers, Interdictors, Command Destroyers and Tactical Destroyers). Once activated, it will scan local space for any bombs,and if it finds one within range, launch a defender missile to intercept it. If it doesn't find any bombs within range, it will still cycle.
The Defender Launcher I has a 120 second reactivation timer. It doesn't require a launcher hardpoint, and has low fitting requirements (10 cpu, 2 powergrid), but uses some capacitor (50gj) to activate. You can only fit one defender launcher.

...




Why couldn't you just made it so the player could choose if he want a defender launcher on his e.g Sabre, why make a launcher slot so that we loose one hi-slot if we do not want this defender missile thingy?

I been playing several years and id been attacked one time from a bomb! ONE time!!!
But I have used the 8th slot every time I fly with my Sabre!!!

Do it again, do it right!


Uh... This hasn't changed the fitting for any ship.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Alyssa Severasse
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#229 - 2016-12-24 23:10:25 UTC
MJDFG Bombs.

That is what you need.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#230 - 2016-12-25 23:33:30 UTC
Alyssa Severasse wrote:
MJDFG Bombs.

That is what you need.



Dear GOD!

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#231 - 2017-01-01 17:27:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Capqu
Lelob
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#232 - 2017-01-06 11:48:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Lelob
CCP Larrikin wrote:

Defender Launchers
The Defender Launcher I can only load Defender Missiles. It may only be fit to Destroyer class vessels (Destroyers, Interdictors, Command Destroyers and Tactical Destroyers).

Cheers,
CCP Larrikin and Team Phenomenon


L O L

Let me just launch bombs against a bunch of thrashers,svipuls, and dictors. It's like a ships-you-should-never-ever-ever-even-try-to-bomb-like-ever. This is a 0/10 totally 100% worthless idea. Go back to the drawing board with this crap please lol
Lelob
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#233 - 2017-01-06 11:56:00 UTC
In case there is some confusion, the way you currently deal with bombers is with dictor bubbles/hic bubbles, ships with extremely high scan res, and ships that can kill frigs really quickly. That is literally the definition of a destroyer. A fast locking, frigate killing ship that can occasionally drop bubbles. If you saw a bunch of arty thrashers on grid now or dictors or confessors or p. much a bunch of destroyers, you wouldn't bomb it anyways unless you had balls of steel or were a total ******* ******.
Lelob
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#234 - 2017-01-06 12:03:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Lelob
May Arethusa wrote:
Quote:


Quote:
fozzie sov was enough of a nerf to bombing already, this is totally unnecessary

noone is bombing currently in eve because you reliably cannot predict where the fight will be and bombing requires some setup time


Your inability to co-ordinate with FCs to ensure a fight takes place on a pre-prepared battlefield isn't a nerf to bombing. That said, there are numerous static locations where fights will take place at predictable times, and that number is growing each day. Try adapating instead of bemoaning changes to the game, because we all know how much sympathy that gets you. You're living in a target rich environment, do something with it.


You have literally 0 idea what you are talking about. I have tried this on numerous occasions and it is very, very hard. I tried it for about 2 weeks before I gave up. I've been on both ends of this (FCing vs bombers and FCing in bombers) and it's stupidly easy to avoid bombers and stupidly hard to set them up to counter people. I really cannot stress enough how much you do not understand how very wrong you actually are.

edit: That said, this change doesn't even affect bombing so I just don't know what CCP was thinking with this change. Make it so most/any ship can fit defenders and it will actually have an impact. Destroyers are simply not the right class of ship to restrict defenders to.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#235 - 2017-01-06 18:44:17 UTC
Lelob wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:

Defender Launchers
The Defender Launcher I can only load Defender Missiles. It may only be fit to Destroyer class vessels (Destroyers, Interdictors, Command Destroyers and Tactical Destroyers).

Cheers,
CCP Larrikin and Team Phenomenon


L O L

Let me just launch bombs against a bunch of thrashers,svipuls, and dictors. It's like a ships-you-should-never-ever-ever-even-try-to-bomb-like-ever. This is a 0/10 totally 100% worthless idea. Go back to the drawing board with this crap please lol


Their goal is to get group to bring destroyers along in their doctrine which would be worthwhile to try to bomb. If the enemy somehow decided to fly shield battleships, they could with this bring a few destroyers in hope of swatting bombs out of the sky. Those same destroyers can also attempt to shoot bombers to nullify their bombs if they are so inclined.

I'm not saying ti will work but the goal was not to make dessi gang less of a bomb target. It's intended to integrate dessi as support in fleet that might get bombed. It comes at a time where CCP expect many newbies (alpha) so they try to give them a role they can actually do.

As a sidenote, can all alpha clone train defenders or is it only missile factions that have access to it?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#236 - 2017-01-06 23:31:48 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Lelob wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:

Defender Launchers
The Defender Launcher I can only load Defender Missiles. It may only be fit to Destroyer class vessels (Destroyers, Interdictors, Command Destroyers and Tactical Destroyers).

Cheers,
CCP Larrikin and Team Phenomenon


L O L

Let me just launch bombs against a bunch of thrashers,svipuls, and dictors. It's like a ships-you-should-never-ever-ever-even-try-to-bomb-like-ever. This is a 0/10 totally 100% worthless idea. Go back to the drawing board with this crap please lol


Their goal is to get group to bring destroyers along in their doctrine which would be worthwhile to try to bomb. If the enemy somehow decided to fly shield battleships, they could with this bring a few destroyers in hope of swatting bombs out of the sky. Those same destroyers can also attempt to shoot bombers to nullify their bombs if they are so inclined.

I'm not saying ti will work but the goal was not to make dessi gang less of a bomb target. It's intended to integrate dessi as support in fleet that might get bombed. It comes at a time where CCP expect many newbies (alpha) so they try to give them a role they can actually do.

As a sidenote, can all alpha clone train defenders or is it only missile factions that have access to it?



Ding, this is the correct answer.

Single ship doctrines are boring.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#237 - 2017-01-07 05:23:35 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
VCBee 2fast2furious wrote:
Just to confirm, do Defender Missiles 2.0 distinguish between friendly and non-friendly bombs?

They do not, they target a random bomb within intercept range. It does not consider friendly or non-friendly bombs.

Rowells wrote:
So, in regards to how it selects a bomb, is it truly random or does it pick the closest one?

Its truly random.


While I get that game realism must often be sacrificed on the altar of game balance this is one of those design choices that makes me wonder just what the heck is going on.

We're playing in a universe with semi-autonomous drones, even fully autonomous "rogue" drones, FoF missiles, FTL communication, and other technological marvels, but we can't make bomb-buster missiles that are at least "smart" enough to aim for targets that are getting closer to them or their launch point much less home in on any bomb that isn't transmitting as "friendly?"

This may make sense from a balance perspective, I've never touched bombs, but from a character perspective any engineer submitting this idea should be tossed out an airlock as hopelessly incompetent.
GREYBOBSASS
Doomheim
#238 - 2017-01-11 22:54:39 UTC  |  Edited by: GREYBOBSASS
or make super slick looking minelaying destroyers with both bonuses to defenders and epic minelaying tech...

maybe kamikaze drones like that chase on proxy
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#239 - 2017-01-20 19:32:24 UTC
Shereza wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
VCBee 2fast2furious wrote:
Just to confirm, do Defender Missiles 2.0 distinguish between friendly and non-friendly bombs?

They do not, they target a random bomb within intercept range. It does not consider friendly or non-friendly bombs.

Rowells wrote:
So, in regards to how it selects a bomb, is it truly random or does it pick the closest one?

Its truly random.


While I get that game realism must often be sacrificed on the altar of game balance this is one of those design choices that makes me wonder just what the heck is going on.

We're playing in a universe with semi-autonomous drones, even fully autonomous "rogue" drones, FoF missiles, FTL communication, and other technological marvels, but we can't make bomb-buster missiles that are at least "smart" enough to aim for targets that are getting closer to them or their launch point much less home in on any bomb that isn't transmitting as "friendly?"

This may make sense from a balance perspective, I've never touched bombs, but from a character perspective any engineer submitting this idea should be tossed out an airlock as hopelessly incompetent.


Bomb don't transmit as friendly.

They are also not homing anywhere since they are straight fire unguided ordinance.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#240 - 2017-01-20 21:07:45 UTC
Shereza wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
VCBee 2fast2furious wrote:
Just to confirm, do Defender Missiles 2.0 distinguish between friendly and non-friendly bombs?

They do not, they target a random bomb within intercept range. It does not consider friendly or non-friendly bombs.

Rowells wrote:
So, in regards to how it selects a bomb, is it truly random or does it pick the closest one?

Its truly random.


While I get that game realism must often be sacrificed on the altar of game balance this is one of those design choices that makes me wonder just what the heck is going on.

We're playing in a universe with semi-autonomous drones, even fully autonomous "rogue" drones, FoF missiles, FTL communication, and other technological marvels, but we can't make bomb-buster missiles that are at least "smart" enough to aim for targets that are getting closer to them or their launch point much less home in on any bomb that isn't transmitting as "friendly?"

This may make sense from a balance perspective, I've never touched bombs, but from a character perspective any engineer submitting this idea should be tossed out an airlock as hopelessly incompetent.



if realism is so important to you just imagine they were designed by the lowest bidder that cut cost using as simplistic a guidance computer as possible

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble