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Faction Warfare: Moving Forward.....

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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#841 - 2012-01-19 18:17:37 UTC
They should share elements where possible/applicable, I myself have suggested we get rid of the automatic plex spawns entirely and replace it with a SBU type of thing that is "expended" as/when a plex is spawned ..

But when people think null sov they invariably think EHP grinds and the associated blobs, CCP will need to pull an epic rabbit out of their asses to change that .. or rather they need to go back to the original design goals for Dominion, from before they axed all the stuff that required :effort: on their part.

At this point, with the amount of faith I have in CCP's ability to so anything 'right', I fear that saying it is OK to mix'n'match the systems will lead to loads more grinds and much less fun all round in FW.

No matter what, summer will be the "Do or Die" expansion for me, the Crutch patch was just that, a patch .. something that should have been part of the last 6-8 expansions as ongoing iterative work. If they fail FW again (which they probably will) and fail to provide a proper vision for how they'd like null to function sov wise I'll find something else to waste my time on.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#842 - 2012-01-19 19:10:58 UTC
Kade Jeekin wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Sure there is a consensus that CCP shouldn't just make FW into the same thing as null sec sov. But only a complete idiot would think they should. Should we strive to have more things to do in eve or fewer? CSM and CCP's answer: Fewer. Instead of having 2 different things to do 1)null sec sov warfare and 2)FW, lets make it so both mechanics are pretty much the same! That way players will have fewer options in eve.


Am I a complete idiot for considering that maybe a revamped nullsec sov system and revamped FW occupancy system could share elements of mechanics? I would suggest that the consensus is that both systems are broken or in need of more development. If CCP is able to produce a mechanic that can be applicable to both, then why not?

.....



The reason I think they shouldn't do that is because different people want different things out of eve. But if all the mechanics are the same then eve won't be able to provide that.

Null sec provides opportunities for people who want to be involved in politics/drama and spying/lying on vent. It provides opportunities for people who don't mind waiting around for hours in order to form a huge fleet and have a huge fleet fight. It provides opportunities for people who don't mind that their assets may be lost if someone in their leadership suddenly doesn't like them, or an enemy comes and destroys there stuff. All of these things are things that allot of players like.

But then there are players who don't want that. Instead of waiting hours for some big fleet to form they want to go out and do small scale stuff. They don't want drama out of a computer game. They basically don't want allot of what people in null sec think are great parts of the game.

Now if you make both mechanics the same you won't please both crowds. You might please one crowd but you will alienate the other.

Why not keep the 2 systems different by implementing different mechanics to achieve the different playstyle preferences?

CSM likes the null sec part of the game. So of course they were thinking they would be doing us a favor by making fw similar to what they think is great.

But really instead of making things the same ccp should be thinking how can I make this feature unique so that a wider audience can find something they like in eve.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Damassys Kadesh
Royal Khanid Hunting Society
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#843 - 2012-01-19 20:11:43 UTC
Ahhhh Soudwave.... I had a little lol this morning reading the latest dev blog:

"Alliances can now join faction warfare. This is the first of a series of Factional Warfare iterations CCP Ytterbium is working on. We’ll tell you more as we get closer to fanfest, but we’re working on Factional Warfare. In other news, a flying pig just passed my window."

Sourem Itharen > Congratulations Lady Kadesh, you have been selected by trial of fire and blood, under the watchful eyes of God, to represent Lord Khanid as his champion in the Imperial Succession trials -YC117
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#844 - 2012-01-19 22:01:39 UTC
My main is in FW, this is mainly down to my available play time and the nature of it allowing me to do High Sec and Low sec play in shorter periods.

I am pleased that CCP seem to have made a real commitment to Faction Warfare.

I think it is important to remeber that some of the suggestions in the munutes and points being discussed in this thread are CSM not CCP opinions.

Regarding any FW/Nullsec mechanics, for me (and this is the problem with the meeting minutes, it lacks details) it comes down to the details of the mechanic, if a good small gang system occupancy mechanic with consequences for occupancy is developed then I think we would all welcome that, also if that system is then built on and scaled up for Nullsec then does that really matter?
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#845 - 2012-01-20 01:04:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Deen Wispa wrote:
Damassys Kadesh wrote:
We should have members of each faction pasting reminders here and there in the militia channels about this thread and the current action required by the community. I'll try to remember to remind people.

Also... I may be ******** here but... what deep-scan are we talking about here? 360-14AU directional scan?


I agree. Can we get all FW pilots to post to general militia and/or chat about this post? And if Hans intends on running for CSM, we can point them to that thread?


There is no "Hans for CSM" thread at this point and time, at least not that I'm aware of!! Right now our focus should be on speaking up about the current issue at hand (By now it should be clear the Alliances-in-FW issue is off the table, we'll all just have to learn to accept that) which is the CSM summit minutes. We should strike while the iron is hot and while the feedback is at its most relevant. If you want to post a MOTD in your chat channels (Great idea!) than link them here.

The best thing everyone can do for now is to provide strong, honest feedback in the proper response thread to the CSM minutes release. I want everyone to chime in and let CCP know what the community feels NOW about the direction they discussed.

As you can see in the recent Dev Blog, they've already got a list of ideas, and CCP Ytterbium is now the one managing FW updates. Right now lets focus on making sure that by the time CSM elections come around, CCP developers aren't already headed down a course we can't help to correct at that point in time.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#846 - 2012-01-20 02:53:36 UTC
I wrote a letter to some guys in the CSM via in game. Hopefully they play the same game (or at least log into) the same client as I do. If not, here it is. My plee:

Quote:

Greetings, I am a FW player for about two years and I'd like to bring to the attention of the CSM/CCP some of the concerns of the FW community has voiced. First and foremost I would like to state that faction war players enjoy the variety faction war has to offer. You can hop into a destroyer and plex one day and a few hours later be participating in a battleship on battleship fight with caps, logi, etc. You can solo, you can blob. FW offers an environment for all types of players.

Faction war in itself is not fundamentally broken. There is a reason why players have been participating in FW, despite years of neglect. I hope CCP keeps the small gang elements in place (plexing) while still having mechanics for larger fleets to fight over (moons, poses, bunker busts, whatever).

CCP/CSM wanted to inject drama, spying, metagaming, etc into faction war. There already is spying, some metagaming, some drama between corps within a militia. All you need is to inject some things to fight over (station rights, moons, taxes, whatever) and you will see a lot more of all of this. This proposed "in game election" idea for militia leaders is ********. There, I said it. It's a ******** idea. What are the prequisites for someone to be en eligible voter for such a leader? Simply a member of a militia? If that is the case you will see the goons or another large alliance just make/move alts into faction war on election day and vote in one of their alts to siphon tax isk to their alliance and there isn't a damned thing the FW community could do about it. It becomes a numbers game, a matter of population, and not about deception or people making the mistake of trusting you. "Meta"-gaming like this is just ********. Meta gaming should be about actually having to earn the trust of those you're attempting to infiltrate, and those who you're attempting to infiltrate make the mistake of actually trusting you. I would rather be done in by a classy PL spy by making the mistake of trusting them, than having the unwashed masses of goonswarm makes alts and vote in a mittens alt on election day with this "in-game election" mechanic that was proposed. Do not implement this. You are taking out player choice and the consequences of those choices if you implement this. Faction war players won't have a choice who is "their leader". Pursue a different route if you think there should be some sort of "leadership" within a militia. Perhaps it could be what corp/alliance has the most "victory points" (whoever defends a militias systems/captures systems for your militia the best) within a militia over a recent time period to become an executor corp or bid for station tax rights or whatever. There are better ways to go about this. Meta gaming in eve should be about trust and the betrayal of that trust. It's about betrayal. Having a bigger entity make alts and join your militia (which militias cannot control who joins them) and then elect a puppet leader is a complete contradiction of what meta gaming in EvE is to me.


All that being said, I hope CCP and the CSM listen to the faction war community before moving forward. There should be consequence of losing systems, and rewards for gaining them, but please listen to the FW community. We are not in nullsec for a reason. The FW community does not want FW to become lowsec. Do not homogenize EvE. You can look at the following thread for feedback regarding what the FW community thinks about the recent CSM summit minutes and some of the proposed ideas here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=58742&find=unread a lot of the players feel that CCP and the CSM is out of touch with the faction war community.

All of this being said I (and the FW community) are greatly appreciative that faction war is getting iterated upon. I don't want to sound like a completely whiny ***** but please, we ask that you guys get "in touch" with the faction war community before moving foward. Get feedback that isn't just the CSM. Get in touch with this community. Do not repeat the mistakes of the past. I personally would like it if a dev would take the time to post on the above linked thread, even if it's just a "hey, we're listening" one liner. It would be greatly appreciated by the FW community. Thank you for your time.


-Super Chair





Here's to hoping! What?
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#847 - 2012-01-20 03:50:47 UTC
Super Chair wrote:
I wrote a letter to some guys in the CSM via in game. Hopefully they play the same game (or at least log into) the same client as I do. If not, here it is. My plee:


Thanks, Super Chair!! That letter is awesome. That's exactly what we need - a flood of emails just like that one going straight to CSM leaders. Coming from a wide number of DIFFERENT militia pilots, not just the same few of us repeating the same thing.

This is exactly the kind of pro-active work we need to see more of in the days ahead - we must give CCP and the CSM no chance to not be 100% clear on what we want and how we feel about what they want to do with our feature.

Much appreciated.

+1 !!

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Corpse Swallower
Doomheim
#848 - 2012-01-20 04:01:28 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Hey guys

Great feedback in this thread. I'm taking a few notes and getting a few ideas.

One thing we might be able to do very easily is remove the faction NPCs, letting you freely travel in other factions space. How would you guys feel about that change? I've always found it a bit sad that we've isolated FW in low-sec when it could be done on a much larger scale.


Awesome idea!
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#849 - 2012-01-20 04:21:40 UTC

And in other news...





Independent low sec organizations from the militia need representation in some way as well!

Where I am.
Krawdad
The Racket
#850 - 2012-01-20 04:24:18 UTC
Super Chair wrote:
I wrote a letter to some guys in the CSM via in game. Hopefully they play the same game (or at least log into) the same client as I do. If not, here it is. My plee:

Quote:

... The FW community does not want FW to become lowsec. ...

-Super Chair


Here's to hoping! What?


Was definitely a good letter, hope it helps get their attention.

Just one slight typo I saw (you meant nullsec, right?)
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#851 - 2012-01-20 05:43:35 UTC
Krawdad wrote:
Super Chair wrote:
I wrote a letter to some guys in the CSM via in game. Hopefully they play the same game (or at least log into) the same client as I do. If not, here it is. My plee:

Quote:

... The FW community does not want FW to become lowsec. ...

-Super Chair


Here's to hoping! What?


Was definitely a good letter, hope it helps get their attention.

Just one slight typo I saw (you meant nullsec, right?)


Yeah, I meant nullsec. Too much calculus homework today Sad
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#852 - 2012-01-20 05:44:33 UTC
I urge everyone to spam the CSM's mailboxes. Voice your opinion, they'll either do something or turn on auto reject.
Damassys Kadesh
Royal Khanid Hunting Society
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#853 - 2012-01-20 06:41:20 UTC
Who exactly is best to send these kinds of letters to?

Sourem Itharen > Congratulations Lady Kadesh, you have been selected by trial of fire and blood, under the watchful eyes of God, to represent Lord Khanid as his champion in the Imperial Succession trials -YC117
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#854 - 2012-01-20 08:02:25 UTC
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Members_of_the_sixth_CSM

Here is a list of the current CSMs (CSM 6). For spammy goodness, you need only to remember their ingame character names. Sadly I did not spam some of these guys on the list. I'll be sure to do that. Smile
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#855 - 2012-01-20 08:06:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Rel'k Bloodlor
So here is my 10 things I would love for faction war

1) A new FW exclusive ship, a navy frigate. This would help people and groups new in have a way to turn the LP from 1-3 level missions around faster. Thus encouraging them to put money in to ships for pew pew, well staying small and semi difficult to farm. Also add a little spice to frig sized plexing

2) make the FW only ships in the LP store have a BPC version. My self as an example works for Gallente militia and have 0 Gallent BS skills so I've only ever sold 1 navy domi as I can't fly a domi to the LP store or fly the navy domi to market. BPC's would help us all make a little more for our time and help the market as a whole I believe.

3) Up the reward for PvP. Weather its isk bounty's for killing ships on the other side, or LP.

4) Allow us to AT LEAST go in to .5 systems of our opponents or scale back the navy response NPCs.

5) Over haul FW missions, they are not balanced buy any definition, and are a little to easy to do a level 4 solo in a cheep T2 frigg for some sides.

6) A yearly Event. Now I know we just got alliances so we could do the tournament BUT that isn't what were about IMHO. (flaunting money and pilot skills to show off/scare competitors) There is plenty to work with, hell if memory serves me there is still a Caldari titan 20 AU from the Gallente home world..........

7) NEVER allow cross faction alliances

8) More divers and larger plexes. (So serpentis can throw up a 5 room site with gates and towers in a few hours to cook some meth, but the Caldari navy's biggest endeavor is a box in space.....)

9) bonuses for taking space, that are non monetary. I don't want a reason for out side groups to come in, I want a reword for us to use (like gang link type bonus or LP or pulling opposing missioners to the conquered space thus putting them in danger for letting it fall ect ect)

10) Adding in the the pirate factions to FW, not as whole new factions to join but as partners in crime. The enemy of my enemy is my friend sorta thing.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#856 - 2012-01-20 08:19:46 UTC
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
So here is my 10 things I would love for faction war


6) A yearly Event. Now I know we just got alliances so we could do the tournament BUT that isn't what were about IMHO. (flaunting money and pilot skills to show off/scare competitors) There is plenty to work with, hell if memory serves me there is still a Caldari titan 20 AU from the Gallente home world..........



CCP Dropbear has done some very cool in-character Live Events recently - I could see him concocting some really cool PvP-based scenarios once or twice a year that give FW pilots something fun to do, that also enhances the Faction War story for the rest of the players of the game to enjoy.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#857 - 2012-01-20 08:47:32 UTC
Ya advancing the story would be nice. Kinda wierd that the Caldarri/Gallenta thing is still just sitting there. And that concord station is still in ruins too. Is there a wierd thing like a titan laying around in amarr or minnmatar space as well?

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Kade Jeekin
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
#858 - 2012-01-20 15:23:03 UTC
I was thinking that shoud the whole system occupancy thing ever start impacting on local taxation etc then adding the Pirate factions to the mix would really be cool. Imagine the Angel Cartel militia occupying Amamake? It would be similar to the Skarkon incident.

Who would welcome the new pirate overlords?
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#859 - 2012-01-20 15:43:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
So here is my 10 things I would love for faction war


6) A yearly Event. Now I know we just got alliances so we could do the tournament BUT that isn't what were about IMHO. (flaunting money and pilot skills to show off/scare competitors) There is plenty to work with, hell if memory serves me there is still a Caldari titan 20 AU from the Gallente home world..........



CCP Dropbear has done some very cool in-character Live Events recently - I could see him concocting some really cool PvP-based scenarios once or twice a year that give FW pilots something fun to do, that also enhances the Faction War story for the rest of the players of the game to enjoy.



One nice thing about the elections of some sort of admiral would be we could then have someone who could choose our team to either enter an alliance tournament or have our own fw tournament.

A faction war tournament could revolve around capturing a fw plex. Each side could get a team for each type of plex and do a defense and an offensive plex so each faction would have 12 fights.

Ok it may not have the crowd of the alliance tournament or the rewards but it would give the following benefits:

1) it would be more realistic than the alliance tournament. The Alliance tournament doesn't allow warp outs and has an artificial barrier that never really exists in game. This could be a demonstration of the straight up game mechanics.

2) It highlights one of the best parts of eve - fw plex mechanics. And very likely generate interest in FW.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Shukuzen Kiraa
F4G Wild Weasel
#860 - 2012-01-20 21:45:49 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Hey guys

Great feedback in this thread. I'm taking a few notes and getting a few ideas.

One thing we might be able to do very easily is remove the faction NPCs, letting you freely travel in other factions space. How would you guys feel about that change? I've always found it a bit sad that we've isolated FW in low-sec when it could be done on a much larger scale.


Best...idea....EVER!
+1