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New dev blog: Your EVE client needs YOU!

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Author
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#241 - 2012-01-19 21:15:11 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
Our recently assembled Live Team is pretty awesome and this is their first dev blog about how they are going to improve the EVE client with your expert help.

Check out the blog, written by CCP Masheen, right here, and as he requests therein...make sure we get your feedback.


I would like to point out the ship listing example in the blog is hilariously flawed.

Say you open the SMA and it's lagging up the ship uploading? Quickly press the List view button and then Icon view, the ship list will load INSTANTLY, while letting it load naturally in the defautl icon will take longer.
Ambo
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#242 - 2012-01-19 21:43:12 UTC
I used to be big on trading and every couple of months my client would grind to a halt thanks to the terribad client-side caching eve uses (see ECM)

I'm a developer myself and in my last job, fixed a problem with the software where it would just continually add new files to the same directory until there were tens of thousands - this makes the Windows file system *cry*. It would be nice if the client side caching for eve was a bit smarted and din't try to put a gazillion files in one folder.
Reten Kip
Everset Dropbears
#243 - 2012-01-19 21:52:44 UTC
Adding to my post, just make the whole client more responsive. As soon as I interact in any way, I should have instant confirmation that the command was received. Currently, when I jump, I just rapid fire click the jump button until the jump happens because I don't know if it worked or not until it finally occurs a second after I sent the command.

When I'm manually flying my ship, I change direction by rapidly clicking where I want to go until the ship turns and starts in that direction, because I don't know if it worked until the ship starts to turn, a second after I did it.

Same thing with the module icons.

Overall, give instant visual feedback when you do something.
jonnykefka
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#244 - 2012-01-19 22:05:29 UTC
This is one that's almost certainly client-side: The disparity in loading an SMA in icon view versus list view. You can load an SMA with a large number of ships in list view in approximately three seconds, and I mean up to 100+ ships in there. Same hanger loading in icon view? Somewhere on the order of a minute or more. What's more, you can initially open it in icon view, click on list view, wait three seconds and it will load, then click on icon view and it's all there. In other words, it is getting the information about the ships in the hanger in the time it takes to load the list view and not displaying it when you try to load it in icon view.

You want bug reps? I can bug rep it in a second. You want repro? Fill an SMA with 100 ships and try loading it in icon view and list view. The difference will be glaringly obvious.
Hamster Too
Golden Fowl
#245 - 2012-01-19 23:35:11 UTC
Reinhold Black wrote:
From a n00b that not always understand what fellow corp'ers and trying to explain. If you were to implement some kond of Remote Desktop it would be very cool and the startup for all n00b's will not be as long. Remote Desktop would be great for instance to show how scanning works properly, this is only one example..

You guys ROCK!


Been a while since I needed this functionality but last time I used Xfire to broadcast live video of my game. I am pretty sure there are other programs with the same functionality.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#246 - 2012-01-20 00:26:01 UTC
Richyme wrote:


2. Let me sort items by meta level, not only by name or type. Or even better, for T1 items add small triangle in the corner of item's icon, like its for faction and T2 stuff, saying, which meta level item is this, so i dont have to remember all those different meta names. Would make looting, selling, reprocessing items so much easier Smile



You can do that already!

Put the window in list view
Right click at the top, in the column titles, select "show meta level"
Find the meta level column and click on it to get it ordered.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

cmaxx
Outside Context Solutions
#247 - 2012-01-20 00:46:54 UTC
Two things about scrolling through big lists or text panes:

1) the scroll bar has always wound me up because, while it's proportional to the size of the visible part of the overall list or document, clicking in the gutter above or below the scrollbar doesn't advance it one 'page'-worth, it takes you all the way to the proportional location represented by the click. This isn't how any other windowing system in widespread use today works and even after years of playing the game it still kills me every time I forget and click and lose where I was completely.

2) large lists, eg, the fully-expanded Skills pane in the character sheet scrolls jerkily and pathily and routinely cuts the framerate from a steady 60-400fps to, like, 0.3fps (1/3 fps) on my 3.6GHz Core2Quad, 8GB, Radeon HD5870 box running only Eve fullscreen at top priority with the latest fresh built fully-patched Windows 7 64-bit with the latest gfx drivers and a good SSD. No matter how much hardware I've thrown at Eve, scrolling big lists always reduces the client to a shuddering mess. No idea why, but it'd be nice to think it needn't be this way.

Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#248 - 2012-01-20 01:30:04 UTC
jonnykefka wrote:
This is one that's almost certainly client-side: The disparity in loading an SMA in icon view versus list view. You can load an SMA with a large number of ships in list view in approximately three seconds, and I mean up to 100+ ships in there. Same hanger loading in icon view? Somewhere on the order of a minute or more. What's more, you can initially open it in icon view, click on list view, wait three seconds and it will load, then click on icon view and it's all there. In other words, it is getting the information about the ships in the hanger in the time it takes to load the list view and not displaying it when you try to load it in icon view.

You want bug reps? I can bug rep it in a second. You want repro? Fill an SMA with 100 ships and try loading it in icon view and list view. The difference will be glaringly obvious.


Don't worry bro, the bug hunters will get to your bug report in about a year, I have an awesome exploit on file regarding how to actually duplicate pos mods and it's been ignored.
Ebon Rue
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#249 - 2012-01-20 02:44:45 UTC
So, I'm researching BPO's, doing ME research and the like.

All my BPO's are in a corp hangar at an NPC station. My POS and Lab's are in the same system. I want to do ME or PE research on my BPO's. To start my journey of clicks, I right click on the BPO I want to improve, and select the relevant process I want to subject it to.

This opens up a window where I am required to pick an installation. I click the button to do so.

This opens up another window. Now because the BPO's aren't stored inside the Lab (A foolish idea) and I'm not using an inefficient NPC Station, no installations are displayed. I click range, then click on of the options at or above Current Solar System.

Now, I can click on one of my labs, which lets me know how many slots that lab has open. I go through my labs until I find one with an open slot. I double click that slot.

Back to the earlier window now. I either use an OUT OF GAME CALCULATOR from a website or simply guess at the ME/PE # that will be closest to the desired time limit without going over. I click Ok.

Now I see another window that gives me a quote. If I'm happy with the production time, I hit Accept Quote, if I'm not, I close this window and repeat the previous step.

Yes! My BPO is now being worked on. I then go and repeat EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. of the above steps for any additional BPO's I would like to improve. Yay!

(The process is even more dreary via the "Installation" tab, as that requires me to scroll through down a long list of BP's to locate the one I want to work on. Every time. I find it faster to use my asset or corp hangar window because then I don't lose my place in the list and can use search filters.)

~~~~~~~~~~~

Why does it take this many clicks to accomplish what should be a very simple process?
Why do I have to manually adjust the range of the filter to "Current Solar System" -every- time?
Why does it allow me to attempt to select "My Blueprints", being those that aren't in a corp hangar, and then tell me that the location of the BP/Installation are incompatible?
-Why am I not able to improve BPO's at a POS without them being in a Corp Hanger?

Why can't each installation act like a context sensitive skill queue, permitting me to drag and drop BP's into them, automagically sorting that BP into an open slot, allow me to select ME or PE, and give me some real time visual feedback on an estimated completion time alongside jobs in progress as I enter or modify the value in the ME/PE+ field?
-Use a slider (room permitting) to change between Invention, copying, ME/PE.
-Context Sensitive means that if I drag the BPO into an assembly line, manufacturing options will be shown on that slider. If I drag the BPO into an advanced lab, a copying option will be available in addition to ME/PE development. If I select Invention, I can drop Base Item's/Decryptors into slots like fitting a module. Ditto for Reverse Engineering.

This can all be done from a single window with a tenth of the current clicks. Just drag & Drop from your hangar or assets into an installation, setup the context sensitive options, verify the output is what you desired, and click begin.

Is there any reason that this line of thinking would not provide your users with a better experience?
Sieges
#250 - 2012-01-20 03:41:16 UTC
I would like to be able to target my own Internet Spaceship. Not to blow it up. But to use Logistic Drones on it.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#251 - 2012-01-20 04:10:01 UTC
Even if the various S&I windows would remember their previous values (separate memories between ME research, PE research, invention, copying, manufacturing, reverse engineering) - it would turn the average "BPO at station, invention at a lab" clickfest from 13 clicks down to about 6-7 clicks.
Xander Hunt
#252 - 2012-01-20 04:21:34 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
There are so many issues which result from sluggish computers, inefficient UI and graphics code, and spotty network connections - some of the more critical have already been posted in this thread, but there are many more which are irritating, but, not necessarily game breaking.

Unfortunately, game devs tend to have pretty decent computers on their desks, with the best high-end graphics cards, tons of memory, and a gigabit LAN connection to the server, so even crappy and laggy code tends to run rather well. Not ideal for testing these sorts of problems.

So, as a more general suggestion, I'd recommend that your team go pick up a few older computers, with marginal graphics cards and minimum memory, and log on to the Eve server via a dial-up connection. Play the game for a couple of hours, and video record the screen for later review & discussion by your team and the other dev teams. Note that FRAPS and other screen capture software won't work, under these conditions - use a camcorder.

This will give you a far better idea of where things tend to hang up - when everything is running under sub-optiimal conditions - and where it might make sense to tweak the code and/or put in some sort of "in progress" indicator.


That isn't exactly accurate. A while ago they were taking donations from EVE players for older hardware. They test the client against the old hardware to see how well it performs in a one-client-only situation. How FAR that testing goes, I don't know. YES their desktop machines are PROBABLY higher end than what was given, and they PROBABLY play EVE on said machines more than they do on the old boxes.

The other thing I'm not 100% sure about is whether the servers are in the same building. Where I work, we have a set of servers in our office for testing and backup purposes, but our main servers for public consumption is about an hour drive away in an actual data center.
Reten Kip
Everset Dropbears
#253 - 2012-01-20 05:57:57 UTC
Sieges wrote:
I would like to be able to target my own Internet Spaceship. Not to blow it up. But to use Logistic Drones on it.


I would also like the option to blow myself up though (yes, I know there's a self-destruct in the right-click menu).

While we're at it, slim down the goddamn right-click menu madness.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#254 - 2012-01-20 06:54:40 UTC
I'm having FPS drop while running several clients in fixed window mode - something I've never had prior to Crucible patches. It looks like you guys have changed something so that now each window is rendered no matter whether it's actually seen or nor.

I'm saying this cause minimizing all 'unused' windows will get FPS back to normal rate (that is - something I've had before Crucible).

I surely haven't changes my PC specs etc. since then, that's just something new in the client.

Can you please somehow make 'unused' (non-active) windows treated/rendered as minimized? Yet again, this applies to fixed window mode.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

NoxiousPluK
Gallactic Groove Guild
#255 - 2012-01-20 07:38:35 UTC
Xander Hunt wrote:

[...]
The other thing I'm not 100% sure about is whether the servers are in the same building. Where I work, we have a set of servers in our office for testing and backup purposes, but our main servers for public consumption is about an hour drive away in an actual data center.

As far as i know CCP's servers are hosted in London. :)
Lolmer
Merciless Reckoning
#256 - 2012-01-20 08:08:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Lolmer
DmitryEKT wrote:
CCP Masheen, here's a quick one:

when you file a petition, your whole client freezes, sometimes for like 5 seconds.
any optimisation there would be greatly welcome.


Also an issue for reporting bugs through the super handy in-game bug reporting tool (F12 -> Report Bug).
LoRDa RaMOs
Vicious Traditions
#257 - 2012-01-20 11:14:03 UTC  |  Edited by: LoRDa RaMOs
I've always thought that clicking the "offices" tab in any station is the most painful thing i can do while docked (well, ok, the second thing). I admit i'm dumb with clicking, but the tabs are so freaking small too.

So, Offices list in Stations. Damn. Too slow Ugh

Also, the Star Map takes forever to load the list of celestials in a system you just hovered on. I mostly hover over the stars to get a name of the system, especially when i'm looking for the most kills or jumps or cynos in the last hour, not to get a huge incomprehensible list of celestials. So, please 1) either speed it up or 2) give me an option tu disable that bothersome list. I mean, i can get it anyway right clicking the star > show info.

Many thanks
Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices
#258 - 2012-01-20 11:14:29 UTC
Suggestion (POS item movement)
1) get 2 labs at a POS
2) put like 1000+ BPCs into one of them
3) open both labs
4) Move all the BPCs from one lab to another
5) Repeat this every 30 minutes, like you're inventing ammunition BPOs :)
6) put +1 bookmark right next to the BPs, rince repeat this way.

Right now we can only do research at a POS (let's assume without a station) if we launch the job from the array that has the production line which will do a job. This almost freezes the client, and it's pretty much annoying that we're unable insert cross-lab jobs. I'm pretty sure that your servercluster LOVES such item movements, but we player really hate it :)

Another one, cans + bookmarks:
1) launch a can (either jetcan, or GSC):
2) put 20 bookmarks into it
3) open it with another toon
4) wait
5) repeat 4
6) repeat 5
7) ...
8) coffee
9) smoke
10) WHOA! they appeared :)

This is also kinda slow and frustrating, especially for wormhole dwellers.
AMirrorDarkly
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#259 - 2012-01-20 11:34:46 UTC
Something else that's little yet increddibly frustrating at times!

Can we have our module rings cycle from the begining every time and not randomly somewhere about half way around ?

It makes it tough to work out how long extended duration modules like siege, bubble or mining modules have been on for.
Valdimir Goulda
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#260 - 2012-01-20 13:53:28 UTC
a lite client for trading that can be run on ipads, netbooks or work computers off flash drives it would only allow you to do stuff you could do in station and wouldnt let you leave station, oh and it wouldnt have captains quaters