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[December] Excavator Mining Drone yield rebalance

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Wuv'u'long'time
Doomheim
#121 - 2016-12-07 18:14:01 UTC
Trespasser wrote:
i think we all agree with the drop rate increase in materials..

But a 32% nerf is EXTREME... these drops are over a billion isk each right now + the ship and the fact it has to be stuck in place

i can understand a small 5-10% nerf but a 32% nerf is crazy... you have to balance in baby steps, nerf it 5-10% and revisit it in a month or 2...

You really need to justify this number, because i think most people are happy with the yield its getting right now, it should be super strong, it finally got people to use the damn ship for pretty much the first time since it was put into the game!


Amen to that. Exactly how I feel.
Thayla Caldari
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#122 - 2016-12-07 18:15:39 UTC
Trespasser wrote:
i think we all agree with the drop rate increase in materials..

But a 32% nerf is EXTREME... these drops are over a billion isk each right now + the ship and the fact it has to be stuck in place

i can understand a small 5-10% nerf but a 32% nerf is crazy... you have to balance in baby steps, nerf it 5-10% and revisit it in a month or 2...

You really need to justify this number, because i think most people are happy with the yield its getting right now, it should be super strong, it finally got people to use the damn ship for pretty much the first time since it was put into the game!



Fozzy rolled two 10 sided dice and those are the numbers he came up with.
Chupita Cabrra
Unrelated Intentions
#123 - 2016-12-07 18:18:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Chupita Cabrra
Overman wrote:
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:
nm Kain wrote:
If they wanna nerf it, then nerf it.. But not 32% - That's not a nerf.. It's breaking it. Completely.


It was broken in the first place. Just to the users advantage. They are re-breaking it.



I think the criticism for the excavator nerf needs to focus less on the fact of nerfing an overpowered feature, but more on the inability of CCP to foresee the very predictable outcome which now CCP is compelled to balance. Instead of doing a moderate level of QA/testing, CCP released a feature. Players relied on some degree of predictable consistency by CCP and many of those players are now in the hole. HTFU and all that notwithstanding, CCP itself shouldnt be in the business of making its own patch notes a speculative industry with high degrees of risk. Players SHOULD be able to trust CCPs statements and rely on them in the short to medium term.

Again, game breaking features need to be patched and some issues are unforeseen. This is not one of those instances.

I'm pretty happy with the direction of CCP as of late, but their release team dropped the ball on this. People would still have been excited about rorq mining if these figures were implemented as such with these new excavator numbers. Instead you have a large pissed off player base and this anger along with lost investment by the players could have been completely avoidable



Coming from the group that makes a living off expoitinng these issues. Let me go ahead and say thanks.

Edit: but that's not important here. I agree with you ultimately. Just hope they take their time on these "tweaks".....get it right.
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
#124 - 2016-12-07 18:18:54 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
  • Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components



1. Awww =( Objectively it's needed but still awwwwwwww!

2. I'm honestly surprised no-one saw this issue coming from a mile away. Good change.


Most people did see it coming.

32% in absolute terms is a large nerf, but if you are starting from a huge number to begin with then its not that big is it.
Brown Pathfinder
Black Spot on Parchment
#125 - 2016-12-07 18:19:54 UTC
This is very good! Got to keep the isk income down more Twisted
Also don't increase the drop yield of the drone components, you should nerf them even more Big smile
Otherwise hisec income is getting stomped on, Drone A.i is like the new melted nanoribbons wich is gone to the ground now value wise.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#126 - 2016-12-07 18:24:10 UTC
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
  • Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components



1. Awww =( Objectively it's needed but still awwwwwwww!

2. I'm honestly surprised no-one saw this issue coming from a mile away. Good change.


Most people did see it coming.

32% in absolute terms is a large nerf, but if you are starting from a huge number to begin with then its not that big is it.


Pretty sure was talking about the drone AI change, which should have been an obvious incoming change even before it was loudly telegraphed by the economic report.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#127 - 2016-12-07 18:25:21 UTC
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
  • Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components



1. Awww =( Objectively it's needed but still awwwwwwww!

2. I'm honestly surprised no-one saw this issue coming from a mile away. Good change.


Most people did see it coming.

32% in absolute terms is a large nerf, but if you are starting from a huge number to begin with then its not that big is it.


It's still a huge loss even if you start from a big number. The stupidest point about it is how mining income is actually self balancing because it all goes through the market. If it pays too much, more will mine thus inflating the offer for minerals on the market and reducing the income for mining once the demand is overcome. As opposed to that, people will now rat which is not bound by the market and also often done AFK.
Kalido Raddi
Crown Mineworks
#128 - 2016-12-07 18:36:17 UTC
So the cost of mining drones will fall, the volume of ore mined by Rorqual will decrease, but the slide in Mineral prices will be arrested, so profits should stabilize at roughly the same.

Nice boost for the lower end Miners still in Exhumers and Barges, as proportionally their mining will be a larger part of a Mining Fleet.

The only thing I would have liked to see would have been for CCP to implement a severe nerf to mining drones, but make boosts apply to them, in order to get rid of the antisocial Rorqual no boost fleets that don't help lower SP players.
Chiana Stellan
Doomheim
#129 - 2016-12-07 18:37:28 UTC
What a waste of time it is planning for the future in eve online. Really for a game that almost entirely relies on forward thinking it's pretty stupid to hang a carrot just to snatch it away once everyone is invested in chasing it.

I literally hate you, try balancing things before you release them or just carry on ruining your great game.
Kimsemus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#130 - 2016-12-07 18:37:53 UTC
1/3 mining yield reduction on the Rorq? As if the yield wasn't already heavily balanced around a (even with the change) massive barrier to entry in terms of ISK invested, skills, exposure, and planning. Not to mention drones that basically don't fly to roids as much as "meander like on a summer walk."

But yeah, can't have null miners getting yields appropriate to their risks and exposure compared to hisec right? That'd just be crazy!
Andail Chanter
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#131 - 2016-12-07 18:39:02 UTC
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
  • Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components



1. Awww =( Objectively it's needed but still awwwwwwww!

2. I'm honestly surprised no-one saw this issue coming from a mile away. Good change.


Most people did see it coming.

32% in absolute terms is a large nerf, but if you are starting from a huge number to begin with then its not that big is it.


32% is 32% whether you're talking about big numbers or small numbers.
i make jobs
Perkone
Caldari State
#132 - 2016-12-07 18:40:10 UTC
no fun allowed

new mechanic? it'll be gone in a month

balancing the risk and reward of nullsec vs highsec? nah, incursion runners should be able to make 3x what a ratter makes consistently

high risk high reward FINALLY in eve? nah let's get rid of that too cause all the poors and bads can't have that level of fun and accessibility so that has to go too

thanks for pussifying eve even more ccp EvilTwistedTwistedEvilTwistedCryTwistedTwistedOopsTwistedTwistedCryEvilBlinkAttentionQuestionIdea
Andail Chanter
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#133 - 2016-12-07 18:43:12 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
Ted McManfist wrote:
VANMISTIK wrote:
Good thing that you're not nerfing the jump hictor that can also be immune to all damage for 7 minutes, that part is surely not broken.


That' would hurt PL, and we can't have that.

Because GSF cannot fly Rorqs?


PL has an in-game surface area that presents few, if any, soft spots, unlike most other groups in game. It's to their advantage to have a wildly OP jump HIC.
Ultraxion
Doomheim
#134 - 2016-12-07 18:43:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ultraxion
Chiana Stellan wrote:
it's pretty stupid to hang a carrot just to snatch it away once everyone is invested in chasing it.


This I agree with x100. Are you guys getting enough sun over there in Iceland? Or is there another reason you consistently spread misery in the player base?
Ted McManfist
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#135 - 2016-12-07 18:44:07 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
Ted McManfist wrote:
VANMISTIK wrote:
Good thing that you're not nerfing the jump hictor that can also be immune to all damage for 7 minutes, that part is surely not broken.


That' would hurt PL, and we can't have that.

Because GSF cannot fly Rorqs?


Silly us, we've been mining with them.
Asher Elias
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#136 - 2016-12-07 18:50:12 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:


Off label uses are fun and good, but it's a strange divergence from the normal paradigm of "No counterplay = bad".



Saying stuff like this makes you look dumb. You can just stay +10 LY away from a rorqual and they can't scram you.
Wexa Tion
New Eden Corporation 98773700
New Eden Alliance 99013620
#137 - 2016-12-07 18:52:59 UTC
Asher Elias wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:


Off label uses are fun and good, but it's a strange divergence from the normal paradigm of "No counterplay = bad".



Saying stuff like this makes you look dumb. You can just stay +10 LY away from a rorqual and they can't scram you.


""Get good noob just don't get tackled lmao""
Callaghan
Doomheim
#138 - 2016-12-07 18:53:11 UTC
Are you serious? This has literally been live for like 5 mins and you're already taking it away. Do you even want people to keep playing your game? Do you even care about all the people who spent time, money and effort. Injecting, building and farming there way into a ship that 1 month later they don't even want.

Is this CCPs new business model to get people to keep extracting and re injecting? 32% is such a huge Nerf to an already limited ship, I have a question for you. After running and developing Eve Online for 10+ Years how is it you can't balance this before you release it so you don't have to "fix" it one month after launch.

If the rorqual had released with 32% less yield at least we would have known it was a bad investment. Now we're all stuck with 10b plus investments, it's an absolute joke.
Sakido Cain
Duragon Pioneer Group
#139 - 2016-12-07 18:53:14 UTC
Querns wrote:
Also, apropos to the actual mining nerf, could we increase the speed of excavators?

The primary method of mining with a rorqual is to siege right on top of the rock, because of the abysmal speed of excavators. If the drones were faster, it wouldn't be necessary to do this quite as much, and it wouldn't positively affect yield a whole lot.



Querns stop using thought and reason, tossing out valid ideas with no tears, rage or unsubbing only leads to CCP believing you have an agenda. So please, next good idea, hide it in a rant. This is the only way CCP hears you.

P.S. Oh also make sure to point out how it helps FW, hurts null and keeps HS better than everything else.
Rexxen Darkbrew
Hounds Of Haides
Shadow Ultimatum
#140 - 2016-12-07 18:54:25 UTC
CCP are you nuts .. 32% nerf?? Have you seen the KB and the amount of Rorq losses..You said you wanted to add more risk/reward to mining. Right now were are at that...It is very high/risk reward currently.

Screw a 1/3 cut in possible income with a 10-15b ship that is stuck for 5 minutes in siege...

Rorq cannot safely mine 24/7 they have to strategically pick there window and sometimes sit out of siege quite a lot waiting on intel etc.. /watching movement of adversaries before resieging.

Might as well put them back to a off grid booster I'd rather have that then a 1/3 nerf in income...Risk no longer equals the reward,..

What a sad waste of people's time and isk, that trained for the Rorqual based on your own post of the new risk/reward and yield output system...


Rorq for sale!