These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[December] Excavator Mining Drone yield rebalance

First post First post First post
Author
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#101 - 2016-12-07 17:42:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tara Read
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. We've been keeping a close eye on how people are using the newly rebalanced Rorquals and it's been really exciting watching how well people have taken to the new gameplay.

We have decided that we need to make a tweak in our December release next Tuesday to adjust the balance of mining Rorquals and keep the mining economy in a healthy place.

We are planning two connected changes in this release:
  • Reducing the mining yield of 'Excavator' Mining Drones by 32%
  • Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components

We are continuing to keep an eye on all aspects of gameplay around the mining foreman ships. I know some players are hoping that we would make adjustments to other areas of Rorqual gameplay (such as ewar use while the PANIC module is running) but we feel comfortable leaving those aspects alone for now and continuing to observe how the metagame evolves. We of course reserve the right to make more changes to this or any other aspects of the Rorqual in upcoming patches to keep the ecosystem in balance.

Thanks!



So let me understand this correctly. People injected characters, invested between 11 to 13 billion for a proper fit Rorqual with Excavator drones and haven't even recouped any sort of investment and you are reducing the mining yield by 32%? Incursions don't make hardly any isk. Mission LP is heavily saturated. I mean sure go ahead and nerf players abilities to make (finally) decent isk per hour. If the argument is risk you only need to look towards the heavy risk of having Excavators killed or the Rorqual killed itself.

Perhaps a more modest reduction like 15 to 20% is fine? That way you won't have people ripping the SP out of their alts and selling Rorquals en masse which is already taking place.
lord xavier
Rubbed Out
#102 - 2016-12-07 17:42:57 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
One quick note for people

Quote:
Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components


Should drop the price for the excavator drones. So you shouldn't have to worry about the 10 billion isk rorqs. Because that won't be the eventual price.

The elite drone AI's are currently selling at 12 million. Before the requirement was announced, they were pretty close to worthless. A higher drop rate should drop it.

Thank god that doesnt effect my heavy scram rorq tho ;)
Emily X7
Strip Core Essential
#103 - 2016-12-07 17:43:01 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
One quick note for people

Quote:
Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components


Should drop the price for the excavator drones. So you shouldn't have to worry about the 10 billion isk rorqs. Because that won't be the eventual price.

The elite drone AI's are currently selling at 12 million. Before the requirement was announced, they were pretty close to worthless. A higher drop rate should drop it.



doesnt matter much due to the risk factor vs carrier ratting with this update they will kill rorqual mining quite well
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#104 - 2016-12-07 17:43:35 UTC
nm Kain wrote:


It's because they cannot have an intelligent conversation. Trolls will be trolls.


Indeed. Signs of intelligent conversation include:

-Blatantly lying about community consensus.

-Dramatic invective.

-Threatening to take your ball and go home.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Captain Torlek
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#105 - 2016-12-07 17:47:03 UTC
can't say i agree with this change to reduce the mining yeld, transportation time is not taken into account. i will agree the rorqual is only 1 ship and that there are others.

i do not agree that the economy is in a good state. i feel that eve is suffering from an inflation problem.

the income in this game has either remained static or reduced over the past 6 years meanwhile inflation seems to have increased.

CCP is intent on getting new players into the game (that's good btw) but those new players won't stay long when they realise it will take them a week to be able to get a cruiser, a thorax was 6m when i started that's now almost doubled.

i was hoping that this was the first step to be able to drop the market prices to enable cheaper ships for newer players/alpha clones.

as for the combat abilities of the rorqual, yes in my hands a PVPier it is a very powerful ship.

capable of long range jumps with minimal fatigue, its dps is less than a carrier and yes as everyone has pointed out it cannot be killed by every titan in eve for 7 mins . i think it should be powerful it's there to provide support to a mining op and protect numerous ships. the panic module cannot be refitted in space, once its used that's it.

its ability to use ewar and neuts in panic should be tweaked.

well that's what i think if anything will change i don't know.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#106 - 2016-12-07 17:48:39 UTC
Wait, does this also effect the Ice Excavator drones in terms of cycle time?

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums

Dreiden Kisada
State War Academy
Caldari State
#107 - 2016-12-07 17:49:21 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
One quick note for people

Quote:
Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components


Should drop the price for the excavator drones. So you shouldn't have to worry about the 10 billion isk rorqs. Because that won't be the eventual price.

The elite drone AI's are currently selling at 12 million. Before the requirement was announced, they were pretty close to worthless. A higher drop rate should drop it.



Know what's going to drop the price even more? When a bunch of folks stop using them because why the **** would they?
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#108 - 2016-12-07 17:50:17 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
One quick note for people

Quote:
Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components


Should drop the price for the excavator drones. So you shouldn't have to worry about the 10 billion isk rorqs. Because that won't be the eventual price.

The elite drone AI's are currently selling at 12 million. Before the requirement was announced, they were pretty close to worthless. A higher drop rate should drop it.

everyone noticed

that nobody was discussing it should have clued you in on how important it was to the discussion
Michael Oskold
Beyond Good and Evil.
#109 - 2016-12-07 17:50:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Oskold
Jean-Luc II wrote:
nm Kain wrote:
It's pretty clear that everyone is against the kind of nerf you are planning... CCP at it's finest. This is absolutely disgusting. 32% is far too much.

My drones currently mine 1340m3, with the nerf that's 911m3, times that by 5, thats 6700m3 to 4555m3. Way to go to kill the mining community. We spend billions, are sitting ducks for 5 minutes and this isn't good enough?

I swear. I feel like quitting.

That's how angry I am. And they announce this days after I plex my accounts. Seriously considering not plexing my accounts after christmas.

Yeah. Me and a load of people are not happy.


I'm with you man and so are other miners I've spoken to who have invested big time into this. It baffles me why folks would insult you for saying how you feel about this. People have every right to feel angry about this. We are being asked to become a sitting duck for 5 mins and this is the result:

https://zkillboard.com/ship/28352/losses/



ive seen a rorq tank 15 blops and then panic when supers came in. He was solo so he died quietly and lost everything after we sat there for 5 mins waiting for him to come out. like unironically if he had a scram fit and punched a cyno for 4-5 dreads those supes/blops would have eaten ****. but no. you insist you are a helpless little miner in a belt just trying to make a living, but I dont buy it.
m4ster112
Jump 2 Beacon
Deepwater Hooligans
#110 - 2016-12-07 17:50:34 UTC
a 15-20% nerf would be better than 32% the ability to make good isk mining is a good thing, Take a look into the number properly before beating the rorq mining to death plox.
nm Kain
State War Academy
Caldari State
#111 - 2016-12-07 17:51:38 UTC
If they wanna nerf it, then nerf it.. But not 32% - That's not a nerf.. It's breaking it. Completely.
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
#112 - 2016-12-07 17:53:30 UTC
CCP, Bruh, Bro, sista.

Come on man.

Like wtf allowing rorquals to tackle while in panic...

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2016-12-07 17:53:33 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
One quick note for people

Quote:
Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components


Should drop the price for the excavator drones. So you shouldn't have to worry about the 10 billion isk rorqs. Because that won't be the eventual price.

The elite drone AI's are currently selling at 12 million. Before the requirement was announced, they were pretty close to worthless. A higher drop rate should drop it.

Hehe, already sold 75% of my stockpile. I will have to build it back up once the price crashes again.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#114 - 2016-12-07 17:54:51 UTC
Ted McManfist wrote:
VANMISTIK wrote:
Good thing that you're not nerfing the jump hictor that can also be immune to all damage for 7 minutes, that part is surely not broken.


That' would hurt PL, and we can't have that.

Because GSF cannot fly Rorqs?
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#115 - 2016-12-07 17:56:10 UTC
Captain Torlek wrote:

i do not agree that the economy is in a good state. i feel that eve is suffering from an inflation problem.

the income in this game has either remained static or reduced over the past 6 years meanwhile inflation seems to have increased.



Perhaps you can expand on this, citing various elements from the monthly economic report.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#116 - 2016-12-07 17:58:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
exiik Shardani wrote:
well so my ratting set up is:

2,5b carrier with 150m bounty/hour (with align there is pretty low chance to catch me)
100m afk VNI with 50-60m bounty/hour
100m afk VNI with 50-60m bounty/hour

=2,7b -> 11hours of ratting to replace it ! (and I do not count loot from MTUs)

what about mining setup with 3x chars?
2,4b rorq hull + 400m fit + 5x 1,2b excavators => 200m ore hour with siege (and no chance escape?)
200m skiff with 20m ore/hour
200m skiff with 20m ore/hour

=9,2b -> 38hours of STATIC mining (and you even risk most of your compressed ore in cargo)


Am I wrong with numbers? miners still have hard work....



The above will change slightly with change that should make excavators cheaper, but yea, the 'cost' and risk differences (between mining ivs ratting in null) will still be plenty steep and I expect more people will choose ratting to Rorq mining than do so now. I use a Machariel instead of a Carrier, but I have an MJD fit, I can moon walk out at the 1st sign of trouble. Rorq miners can't.

Upside for miners is mineral prices rise, down side is more ratters means both less content (easier to catch rorq miners than it is to catch ratters) and even more isk pumping into the economy (something like 70% of the 50 TRILLION isk pumped into the game last month from npc bounties came from null sec npc bounties, expect that to rise even further).

Thus my previous comment in this thread, don't worry, they will nerf ratting next. Expect longer lines for high sec incursion wait lists and Loads more people running missions in Apanake/Osmon/Lanngisi by June of next year lol.
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
#117 - 2016-12-07 17:59:34 UTC
nm Kain wrote:
If they wanna nerf it, then nerf it.. But not 32% - That's not a nerf.. It's breaking it. Completely.


It was broken in the first place. Just to the users advantage. They are re-breaking it.
Philip Shazih
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#118 - 2016-12-07 18:02:10 UTC
Playing devils advocate: CCP may not have nerfed rorq income. CCP nerfed rorq volume. Income is volume * price.

Prices have been dropping like a brick so rorqs were nerfing their own income.
This on fact is a boost to exhumers and barges.

I agree on everything else thi. Nerf the jumping hick.
Trespasser
S0utherN Comfort
#119 - 2016-12-07 18:06:14 UTC
i think we all agree with the drop rate increase in materials..

But a 32% nerf is EXTREME... these drops are over a billion isk each right now + the ship and the fact it has to be stuck in place

i can understand a small 5-10% nerf but a 32% nerf is crazy... you have to balance in baby steps, nerf it 5-10% and revisit it in a month or 2...

You really need to justify this number, because i think most people are happy with the yield its getting right now, it should be super strong, it finally got people to use the damn ship for pretty much the first time since it was put into the game!
Overman
Malum Industria
#120 - 2016-12-07 18:13:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Overman
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:
nm Kain wrote:
If they wanna nerf it, then nerf it.. But not 32% - That's not a nerf.. It's breaking it. Completely.


It was broken in the first place. Just to the users advantage. They are re-breaking it.



I think the criticism for the excavator nerf needs to focus less on the fact of nerfing an overpowered feature, but more on the inability of CCP to foresee the very predictable outcome which now CCP is compelled to balance. Instead of doing a moderate level of QA/testing, CCP released a feature. Players relied on some degree of predictable consistency by CCP and many of those players are now in the hole. HTFU and all that notwithstanding, CCP itself shouldnt be in the business of making its own patch notes a speculative industry with high degrees of risk. Players SHOULD be able to trust CCPs statements and rely on them in the short to medium term.

Again, game breaking features need to be patched and some issues are unforeseen. This is not one of those instances.

I'm pretty happy with the direction of CCP as of late, but their release team dropped the ball on this. People would still have been excited about rorq mining if these figures were implemented as such with these new excavator numbers. Instead you have a large pissed off player base and this anger along with lost investment by the players could have been completely avoidable