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[December] Defender Missiles

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Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#121 - 2016-11-28 11:50:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Capqu
sorry for being rude

but could you answer some actual feedback now instead of just repeating what you already said in the OP for people who literally didnt bother reading it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Lugh Crow-Slave
#122 - 2016-11-28 11:52:53 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Bomb Changes
Bombs now have a Minimum Velocity of 1m/s that you must be traveling at before you can launch. This is to fix some issues that can happen when your velocity is 0, causing the bomb not to move and just explode on you.




HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAA!


can we just keep this? its a little bit of randomness that could really spice up a fight if a pilot screws up

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#123 - 2016-11-28 13:18:41 UTC
+1 for actively trying to get Alphas more involved and creatively adding utility to something that has been pretty useless since time immemorial.

-1 for buffing already strong T2/T3 Destroyers. They already do a lot, and do it really well, so why add even more utility?

I haven't done a bombing run in ages so I won't comment on that beyond to say that if CCP were planning on introducing new flavors of bombs, it would seem that the time to do that would be along with these changes, not after them.



Two questions: Do mission NPCs still use defender missiles (I haven't run a mission, let alone in a missile boat, in years), and if so will these new mechanics change how they operate?

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#124 - 2016-11-28 13:39:49 UTC
This is a great idea. I don't think ti will work practically, meaning working on this is a waste of time, but thanks for at least trying.

Effectively it will just mean that FCs will give orders to have enemy dessies scrubbed 1st (their low levels of EHP mean reps ain't goina do squat in a fleet fight) so at the end of the day, not much will change. If you'd put them on cruisers or battlecruisers then that would have opened up the fleet meta to battleship doctrines again, because bigger ships could survive because of their higher hpm pools.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#125 - 2016-11-28 13:41:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Would love to see more focused bombs. I think with these, damage variants would not be op as a prepared fleet could counter them now

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Gizzie Haslack
4249003
#126 - 2016-11-28 15:04:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizzie Haslack
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Gizzie Haslack wrote:

Hence the desire for a 3rd Cov Ops role deploying Rapid Light Launchers instead of Torps.


Battle Cheetahs! Though rapid lights is pushing it a little ;-)




Rapid lights need less power. So take a bomber chassis, but in a smaller power-plant ( reducing inertia in theory ), and you're away. Possibly add some Micro-Warpdrive support as well.

You might even be able to fit another mid-power slot too. Weee!


3 rapid lights, small turret, & cloak?
2 rapid lights, bomb launcher, small turret, & cloak?

Swap the rapid lights for Heavy Assault launchers?


They would be soooo much fun :)

.

I'll get back to topic now ;)
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#127 - 2016-11-28 20:57:24 UTC
Not really sure the reason for this move. For small and medium gang it has little to no effect, and from what I hear bombers aren't much of a thing in large scale fleet ops nowadays either.

Any chance you could elaborate as to the reasoning for this change Larikin. I can think of many other things in much greater need of being fixed than bombers currently (AFs and medium artillery for example).
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#128 - 2016-11-28 21:06:15 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
This will be the fourth or fifth nerf to bombing runs in what, one and a half years?

Except this is not a nerf because no one will be basing a fleet doctrines around the use of defender missiles. Bombers are hardly overwhelming currently and there are many more important roles for destroyers to fulfil.

I doubt anyone will use them much like now. (this is based on the assumption that CCP don't release new types of bomb with useful effects, and if they do it won't be for a very long time if at all).
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#129 - 2016-11-29 15:31:29 UTC
dont ******* nerf the destroyers into 0.0 coffins. nobody wants to take up and see their destroyer got nerfed because it did 'to much in 0.0'

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Olmeca Gold
The Free Folk
#130 - 2016-11-29 15:47:40 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
Not really sure the reason for this move. For small and medium gang it has little to no effect, and from what I hear bombers aren't much of a thing in large scale fleet ops nowadays either.

Any chance you could elaborate as to the reasoning for this change Larikin. I can think of many other things in much greater need of being fixed than bombers currently (AFs and medium artillery for example).


I feel like this is CCP trying hard to give alpacas a proper role in null fights

Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.

Youtube channel.
Olmeca Gold
The Free Folk
#131 - 2016-11-29 15:49:40 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
Chance Ravinne wrote:
This will be the fourth or fifth nerf to bombing runs in what, one and a half years?

Except this is not a nerf because no one will be basing a fleet doctrines around the use of defender missiles. Bombers are hardly overwhelming currently and there are many more important roles for destroyers to fulfil.

I doubt anyone will use them much like now. (this is based on the assumption that CCP don't release new types of bomb with useful effects, and if they do it won't be for a very long time if at all).


It is not hard to spend one slot for any generic t3 dessie, command dessie or dictor you are using for general purposes anyway. You need those in any big null fighti and every dessie will fit them, because why not.

Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.

Youtube channel.
Olmeca Gold
The Free Folk
#132 - 2016-11-29 15:57:09 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
This is a great idea. I don't think ti will work practically, meaning working on this is a waste of time, but thanks for at least trying.

Effectively it will just mean that FCs will give orders to have enemy dessies scrubbed 1st (their low levels of EHP mean reps ain't goina do squat in a fleet fight) so at the end of the day, not much will change. If you'd put them on cruisers or battlecruisers then that would have opened up the fleet meta to battleship doctrines again, because bigger ships could survive because of their higher hpm pools.


Sorry for being blunt but your post is clueless.

1) You realize bomb damage is not like smartbomb damage, that it scales with sig radius, and dessies can very well tank multiple waves right? It is probably harder to properly bomb to kill a t3 dessie than a battlecruiser. The generic battlecruiser will die way earlier even.

2) Have you ever checked how many recent battlereports are out there with Feroxes, Machariels, Hurricanes or Rattlesnakes? This is not 2 years ago. Bombing does not have too much of an effect on doctrine choices anymore, unless you know there is a specific bombing fleet coming for you.

Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.

Youtube channel.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#133 - 2016-11-29 19:54:46 UTC
Olmeca Gold wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
This is a great idea. I don't think ti will work practically, meaning working on this is a waste of time, but thanks for at least trying.

Effectively it will just mean that FCs will give orders to have enemy dessies scrubbed 1st (their low levels of EHP mean reps ain't goina do squat in a fleet fight) so at the end of the day, not much will change. If you'd put them on cruisers or battlecruisers then that would have opened up the fleet meta to battleship doctrines again, because bigger ships could survive because of their higher hpm pools.


Sorry for being blunt but your post is clueless.

1) You realize bomb damage is not like smartbomb damage, that it scales with sig radius, and dessies can very well tank multiple waves right? It is probably harder to properly bomb to kill a t3 dessie than a battlecruiser. The generic battlecruiser will die way earlier even.


If you don't know what's being said, , read it again, then ask for clarification. I never said anything about Dessies being bombed, said " FCs will give orders to have enemy dessies scrubbed 1st". You know, with guns?
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#134 - 2016-11-29 20:56:01 UTC
Olmeca Gold wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Chance Ravinne wrote:
This will be the fourth or fifth nerf to bombing runs in what, one and a half years?

Except this is not a nerf because no one will be basing a fleet doctrines around the use of defender missiles. Bombers are hardly overwhelming currently and there are many more important roles for destroyers to fulfil.

I doubt anyone will use them much like now. (this is based on the assumption that CCP don't release new types of bomb with useful effects, and if they do it won't be for a very long time if at all).


It is not hard to spend one slot for any generic t3 dessie, command dessie or dictor you are using for general purposes anyway. You need those in any big null fighti and every dessie will fit them, because why not.

To use them you'd need to position your T3 destroyers on top of your battleships and capitals, both of which have little manoeuvrability. Therefore it seems to me to be highly undesirable to anchor your highly mobile T3 destroyer fleet to your highly immobile capital and battleship fleet.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#135 - 2016-11-30 11:15:30 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Professor Humbert wrote:
Trying to find more fleet roles for the null-sec alphas, perhaps?
What's next? Defender missiles shooting down bubbles, eh?


That would make an excellent replacement for the tanking subsystem of sleeper cruisers.


... what? There's no STRATEGIC cruiser Defense subsystem that has anything to do with bubbles.
Captain Campion
Campion Corp.
#136 - 2016-11-30 14:07:39 UTC
Make them work on any ship.
Make them 1-shot a drone if there's no bomb around.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#137 - 2016-11-30 15:42:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
CCP Larrikin wrote:

Bomb Changes
Bombs now have a Minimum Velocity of 1m/s that you must be traveling at before you can launch. This is to fix some issues that can happen when your velocity is 0, causing the bomb not to move and just explode on you.


RIP suicide bombing.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#138 - 2016-11-30 19:54:40 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
Olmeca Gold wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Chance Ravinne wrote:
This will be the fourth or fifth nerf to bombing runs in what, one and a half years?

Except this is not a nerf because no one will be basing a fleet doctrines around the use of defender missiles. Bombers are hardly overwhelming currently and there are many more important roles for destroyers to fulfil.

I doubt anyone will use them much like now. (this is based on the assumption that CCP don't release new types of bomb with useful effects, and if they do it won't be for a very long time if at all).


It is not hard to spend one slot for any generic t3 dessie, command dessie or dictor you are using for general purposes anyway. You need those in any big null fighti and every dessie will fit them, because why not.

To use them you'd need to position your T3 destroyers on top of your battleships and capitals, both of which have little manoeuvrability. Therefore it seems to me to be highly undesirable to anchor your highly mobile T3 destroyer fleet to your highly immobile capital and battleship fleet.

Not really.

You could anchor them on the fleet, but that would be unnecessary. The range of a max-skilled missile is 45km, and with bombs clocking in a 12 second timer, you have about 9 (7-8 conservative estimate), to get where you're needed.

If you fly a Dessie in a large fleet like that, you'll probably either be to small to really matter on the list of priority to kill, or off the main fight making pings or dogfighting other light tackle. If you see bombs on grid you could immediately warp to your fleet and fire off the module.

But that aside, I know there are very many skilled dictors that can operate in the danger zone under normal circumstances.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#139 - 2016-11-30 22:47:40 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Not really.

You could anchor them on the fleet, but that would be unnecessary. The range of a max-skilled missile is 45km, and with bombs clocking in a 12 second timer, you have about 9 (7-8 conservative estimate), to get where you're needed.

12 seconds is not a lot. You need to take into account server lag, the fact that your going to miss a few server ticks however fast you and your connection are, in game travel time to get within range of the bomb, and then travel time of the missile to the bomb.
Olmeca Gold
The Free Folk
#140 - 2016-12-01 17:21:42 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Olmeca Gold wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
This is a great idea. I don't think ti will work practically, meaning working on this is a waste of time, but thanks for at least trying.

Effectively it will just mean that FCs will give orders to have enemy dessies scrubbed 1st (their low levels of EHP mean reps ain't goina do squat in a fleet fight) so at the end of the day, not much will change. If you'd put them on cruisers or battlecruisers then that would have opened up the fleet meta to battleship doctrines again, because bigger ships could survive because of their higher hpm pools.


Sorry for being blunt but your post is clueless.

1) You realize bomb damage is not like smartbomb damage, that it scales with sig radius, and dessies can very well tank multiple waves right? It is probably harder to properly bomb to kill a t3 dessie than a battlecruiser. The generic battlecruiser will die way earlier even.


If you don't know what's being said, , read it again, then ask for clarification. I never said anything about Dessies being bombed, said " FCs will give orders to have enemy dessies scrubbed 1st". You know, with guns?




Sorry, your actual point was a further hyphotetical so I assumed you just didn't know how bombs work which was the simpler scenario. What you are saying presumes that the bombing fleet has is working together with one of the fleets on ground against the other side., and in close coordination, while they often are independent third parties, or at least not in close coordination with the friendly fleet. E.g. DBRB often takes a bomber fleet to NCPL vs CO2/TEST fights.

Also in a skirmish if what you are primarying is enemy dessies, while you need to primary main body of the enemy, just because you have friendly bombers around, then you might already be paying the price by losing your own ships. If there is a price then the bomber group might already be worth taking.

Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.

Youtube channel.