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[November] Rorqual Changes

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Baki Yuku
Doomheim
#481 - 2016-11-26 16:51:57 UTC
Gaara's sniper wrote:
New rorquals are not possible to use as afk ratting ships, because frigate and cruiser npcs keep focusing on drones no matter the aggro mechanics you use(command links, ecm burst, shield emissions, warp scramblers).

CCPLS

Make afk Ishtars great again.

[Rorqual, Rorqual]
Dark Blood Capacitor Power Relay
Dark Blood Capacitor Power Relay
Dark Blood Capacitor Power Relay
Syndicate Damage Control

CONCORD Capital Shield Extender
CONCORD Capital Shield Extender
Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Sentient Drone Navigation Computer
Sentient Drone Navigation Computer
Sentient Drone Navigation Computer

Cynosural Field Generator I
Industrial Core II
Pithum A-Type Medium Remote Shield Booster
Pithum A-Type Medium Remote Shield Booster
Pithum A-Type Medium Remote Shield Booster
Pithum A-Type Medium Remote Shield Booster
Pithum A-Type Medium Remote Shield Booster
Pulse Activated Nexus Invulnerability Core

Capital Drone Mining Augmentor I
Capital Drone Mining Augmentor II
Capital Drone Mining Augmentor II


Hornet II x10
Warrior II x10
Wasp II x5
'Excavator' Mining Drone x5
Vespa II x5
Warden II x10
Valkyrie II x10
Hammerhead II x5
Bouncer II x10
Berserker II x5
Gecko x4
Garde II x10
Curator II x10
Ogre II x5
Praetor II x5
Hobgoblin II x10
Vespa EC-600 x5


1 RR on each drone and you are fine:)
Baki Yuku
Doomheim
#482 - 2016-11-26 17:01:02 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Baki Yuku wrote:
Not sure if serious but we have fax on standby at all times so if carriers or rorquals get tackled while jewing first thing that goes in is a ton of combat carriers and a few fax.. and if then there is still a need you have all the time in the world to form a subcap fleet. So ya if your alliance can't figure out to have a standing fleet with fax alts on standby maybe they should not use rorquals. And nop Ratting carrier which for our alliance is simply our combat carriers with all the refits and **** is about 5b atleast they life and dont just die before triage loads grid when bombersbar unloads 80 bombers. Which did happen and guess what we didnt loss **** all. Jewing is fine everyone has to make isk somehow the difference is doing it in non ******** ways.


If you're really going to try and justify the need for a full capital fleet to be on standby for a mining operation, then just discussing the rorqual itself as the only cost is missing a huge chunk of the picture. By that requirement alone, you've increased the cost to operate this ship by tens of billions. Not to mention the fact that babysitting ratters and miners has proven to be one of the few tasks actually more boring than ratting or mining. Which is a terrible gameplay design in of itself.

And no, you don't need a full PLEX-in-cargo refit in order to rat. Just because you require people to fit skill injectors in their tank slots, doesn't mean your solution is even close to being near the norm, or the minimum. I use a slightly modified combat fit for my ratting, and even with all modules and refits in cargo, I've never surpassed 3bn in cost. Especially considering that its extremely easy to avoid getting caught in any ratting ship that isn't sieged. Too bad Excavators can't follow you in warp.

Baki Yuku wrote:
As for the argument that there are 50k people in eve no not really most of the time its more like 25k... and even then dudes from WH's arent really something you'd fear because they can't cap escalate you while you can unload everything on them at reasonable risk. The real risk is the dudes living around the corner which in our case is goons and they have tried to snagg our **** multiple times yet never get it because we see them coming exit industry mode and **** off.. Like having eyes also means having a freaking brain.


You know, the point of that argument was to show how ridiculous your statement was. Reducing 50k down to 25k still doesn't make your definition of "the hostiles that might gun for your rorqual" any more reasonable. Unless you can find the 20k people who don't want to get on a cap kill, should the opportunity arise. And I pity the person who takes your "don't worry about wormholes" comment seriously. They regularly hunt and kill capitals. They have regularly been able to shove enough ships through a hole to kill supers and titans. Some groups specifically live in wormholes for this kind of content.

Baki Yuku wrote:
The only thing I'd argue for is more base speed on the drones given the price tag and given that they are supposed to be the big brother of the other augmented harvester drones yet they only got 1/3 of their base speed. Otherwise everything else is perfectly fine.

I won't argue on the speed. The max vs real is way to dependent on the speed to really make any other choices near as important as placement.

However, the rorq is full of annoting little 'features' that have all compiled to make it a sub-par experience. It is quite a ways from perfectly fine.


Okay listen here if The-Culture a 1k duders alliance can do it and keep our rorquals alive everyone else can do it. Lets not talk about the fact that we got RA+Dreamfleet+Fcore right in jump-range of our rorquals in fountain and Goons 1 mid away. It doesn't get anymore dangerzone then that yet we manage to do it. If your alliance isn't willing to do whats needed to be able to use em do not cry about it. It really is not that hard to reduce the risk to a accaptable level it just requires some effort.

With 4 Rorquals it took me a grand total of 4 days to mine the ore needed to build a ragnarok. That kind of "income" should not come easy or risk free.
Zenon Itinen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#483 - 2016-11-26 18:18:24 UTC
Still struggling to find the theoretical 3 k dps this thing supposedly outputs even with all 5 skills , I'm getting about 1500 sieged...
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#484 - 2016-11-26 21:59:23 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Baki Yuku wrote:
Not sure if serious but we have fax on standby at all times so if carriers or rorquals get tackled while jewing first thing that goes in is a ton of combat carriers and a few fax.. and if then there is still a need you have all the time in the world to form a subcap fleet. So ya if your alliance can't figure out to have a standing fleet with fax alts on standby maybe they should not use rorquals. And nop Ratting carrier which for our alliance is simply our combat carriers with all the refits and **** is about 5b atleast they life and dont just die before triage loads grid when bombersbar unloads 80 bombers. Which did happen and guess what we didnt loss **** all. Jewing is fine everyone has to make isk somehow the difference is doing it in non ******** ways.


If you're really going to try and justify the need for a full capital fleet to be on standby for a mining operation, then just discussing the rorqual itself as the only cost is missing a huge chunk of the picture. By that requirement alone, you've increased the cost to operate this ship by tens of billions. Not to mention the fact that babysitting ratters and miners has proven to be one of the few tasks actually more boring than ratting or mining. Which is a terrible gameplay design in of itself.

And no, you don't need a full PLEX-in-cargo refit in order to rat. Just because you require people to fit skill injectors in their tank slots, doesn't mean your solution is even close to being near the norm, or the minimum. I use a slightly modified combat fit for my ratting, and even with all modules and refits in cargo, I've never surpassed 3bn in cost. Especially considering that its extremely easy to avoid getting caught in any ratting ship that isn't sieged. Too bad Excavators can't follow you in warp.

Baki Yuku wrote:
As for the argument that there are 50k people in eve no not really most of the time its more like 25k... and even then dudes from WH's arent really something you'd fear because they can't cap escalate you while you can unload everything on them at reasonable risk. The real risk is the dudes living around the corner which in our case is goons and they have tried to snagg our **** multiple times yet never get it because we see them coming exit industry mode and **** off.. Like having eyes also means having a freaking brain.


You know, the point of that argument was to show how ridiculous your statement was. Reducing 50k down to 25k still doesn't make your definition of "the hostiles that might gun for your rorqual" any more reasonable. Unless you can find the 20k people who don't want to get on a cap kill, should the opportunity arise. And I pity the person who takes your "don't worry about wormholes" comment seriously. They regularly hunt and kill capitals. They have regularly been able to shove enough ships through a hole to kill supers and titans. Some groups specifically live in wormholes for this kind of content.

Baki Yuku wrote:
The only thing I'd argue for is more base speed on the drones given the price tag and given that they are supposed to be the big brother of the other augmented harvester drones yet they only got 1/3 of their base speed. Otherwise everything else is perfectly fine.

I won't argue on the speed. The max vs real is way to dependent on the speed to really make any other choices near as important as placement.

However, the rorq is full of annoting little 'features' that have all compiled to make it a sub-par experience. It is quite a ways from perfectly fine.


Just tell people you are running a hotdrop fleet and you have bait out for the hostiles. Then mine away. As long as you have one FAX on standby, you won't lose your bait Rorqual. And if you are at all competent as an alliance you should be able to murder Black Ops fleets and typical gangs. I'm not suggesting using it outside your group's capital superiority range, but anywhere within 6-7 LY if your alliance staging should work.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Cptcarter
State War Academy
Caldari State
#485 - 2016-11-27 02:06:57 UTC
So by your logic if you do not have a large alliance or coalition ready at any min 24/7 to jump in to help you defend your rorq you should just stop mining in a Rorqual? Ok that is common sense not to you use unless you know you can defend it from the Bomber Bar and other many grps roaming looking for that unsuspected easy kill.

*
1. No one and I mean no one, no matter what your flying or what you doing should expect there alliance or coalition to form up and get to you in time not to lose your Isk makers. When that Rorq goes into indy Core you might as well tell your rorq and pod goodbye.

2. Not Everyone are part of a 1k allaince, and even if you are, with these changes you must now wait till your alliances high activity times. This means you can not just jump on and start mining, you have to time everything around others play times.

3. A lot of ppl say shut you mouth and just use the Porpis if you can not defend a Rorual. Ok! Whomever says that know nothing and I mean nothing about the industrial side of EVE. You can not mine with a porpoise and expect adequate income like you would with Ratting or anything else in nulsec.

4. Ok so you say! If you want adequate income just start ratting instead of mining! Yup Yup that is exactly what I am doing and more the likely, what other miners are doing. I am going to take all the skills out of my alt miners and buff up my 4 main accounts and drop the other 6. Bam I got my self a baddass Ratting squad.

This means I will not be playing as much, and ratting some and pvping alittle more. At least till
Quote:
Star Citizen
comes out.

Star Citizen : OOO crap I done said that in eve forums.. Whoops.
Cptcarter
State War Academy
Caldari State
#486 - 2016-11-27 02:18:27 UTC
Ok so for that person that said they mined a Titan in 4 days with 4 rorquals..Prove it. I say your full of ****!

Titan cost about 100B isk, but it takes a little over that in minerals cost to build but for the sake of math we will just say 80B to be nice to your rorqs.

Roruals make 250m Isk per Hr that is very high considering drone speeds, how close rorual are to rocks, breaks, sleep ect....

80,000,000,000B / 250,000,000m/hr = 320Hr/4 rorq = 80 hrs

4 days x 24Hrs = 96 hrs

96Hr-80hr = 16Hrs of Free time in 4 days to sleep, eat , **** and I a hoping you have some life to have a woman to F%$K.

that means you sleep only 4hrs a day, and speed 24/7 playing eve and never stop mining and Remeber I was giving very high prices for ore price intake and very low cost for titan build.

You do the math, titan builder.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#487 - 2016-11-27 03:23:42 UTC
If that last post was supposed to disprove his claim, it's having the opposite effect. Wow! Just .... wow. Even if it were 7 or 8 days; that's still mighty impressive.
Jean-Luc II
Doomheim
#488 - 2016-11-27 12:05:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jean-Luc II
Dear CCP (and fellow miners)...

OK, I would imagine this is the end of my mining career for at least a while now until I can find a solution. I can finally understand where the term "Bitter Vet" comes from although I am by no means a veteran.

I have one Rorqual, 7 Exhumer miners & 1 scout. So 9 accounts to Plex all told.

With normal Rorqual boosting (not going into siege) I now only bring in around 150 mill per hour.

So... 72 hours of mining to Plex my accounts.

While there are some players loving these recent changes, there are a lot of players that aren't in a position where it's at all a good idea to Seige their Rorquals.

So CCP, my feedback is that I'm guessing to may loose a lot of customers, myself included. 72 hours mining to Plex my accounts is way too much. I feel that in my position if I do start going into siege I would probably loose more than I would gain being a sitting duck without proper backup.
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#489 - 2016-11-27 12:38:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark O'Helm
https://youtu.be/A1kPRgrHZ3Y The amount you can mine now with one account is insane. The Roqual in this video makes more ice then 3 fully boosted skiffs.(i calculated it). Including the possibility to compress the ice, he outruns my orca+freighter+3 skiff.
1 Account makes more ice then 5? That is illogical.

Please reduce that or give the orca and the porpoise a buff in mining. Maybe a doubble bandwith, so they can use 2 ice drones. Or doubble the mining bonus. CCPlease.



Edit. I know that the Rorqual is a capital mining ship now. But it is also the best Fleetbooster. And with an ice block every 6.6 sec. compared to the orca with around 50 sec. for the same block the rorqual is about 7.5 times better. This gap is too big. Don't you think so?

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#490 - 2016-11-27 15:20:38 UTC
Cptcarter wrote:
Ok so for that person that said they mined a Titan in 4 days with 4 rorquals..Prove it. I say your full of ****!

Titan cost about 100B isk, but it takes a little over that in minerals cost to build but for the sake of math we will just say 80B to be nice to your rorqs.

Roruals make 250m Isk per Hr that is very high considering drone speeds, how close rorual are to rocks, breaks, sleep ect....

80,000,000,000B / 250,000,000m/hr = 320Hr/4 rorq = 80 hrs

4 days x 24Hrs = 96 hrs

96Hr-80hr = 16Hrs of Free time in 4 days to sleep, eat , **** and I a hoping you have some life to have a woman to F%$K.

that means you sleep only 4hrs a day, and speed 24/7 playing eve and never stop mining and Remeber I was giving very high prices for ore price intake and very low cost for titan build.

You do the math, titan builder.


Whilst I too am somewhat skeptical at the amounts I am hearing.....

It is sadly obvious that you have no idea at all what the mineral value of a Titan is - and I buy minerals...

Let alone that the mineral value of a Titan has dropped some 12,000 million isk in just the last week - which is testament to how much more mining is now being done

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Cptcarter
State War Academy
Caldari State
#491 - 2016-11-27 20:40:03 UTC
Marcus Tedric ?

Are you insane are just plain void of Eve industry? I know exactly what it take to build all ships in the game, to the exact mineral count but to give such in depth count just to prove it would take way more time then 4 days for 4 Rorqs to mine a titan would be just to nit picky But I understand if it just to hard to understand round about numbers just to prove a round about idea.

12,000m Isk? LMAO, its not even worth mentioning in a post when it comes to a large scale ship. If your trying to say 12m units of minerals then that is just insane and I say prove it.

You buy minerals...ok welll I am pure indy, I actually mine the minerals it takes to build the largest ships in the game with 12 accounts.

Brokk Witgenstein?

I was not trying to disprove a persons claim to disprove" the Rorq is not a powerful beast" , shoot it was a powerful beast even while setting in a pos giving everyone 60% more mining yield.

yet you are mining with 4 Rorq - 5 - 6 - 7 -8 ect in the same belt or different belts whatever. That is at least 5B isk per rorq that he will lose unless he is part of the few large grps that could help protect it and yes I understand that many rorq's would not need much protecting but If those Rorqs are not part of say PL, its only a matter of time before a grp like PL drop in such a large grp of BLOPS to wipe all them off the field but yes that is apart of eve, if you cant afford to lose it then don't use it.

Jean-Luc II :

I hear you, you are not alone. A lot of the hard core indy players that had 6-15 accounts mining will now either switch to ratting, highsec mission running, ect.... with 2-4 accounts just counting the days till they end the rorq 5min your dead mode or till something better comes along. Most ppl in eve will not understand the joy of mining and building and playing so many chara's and yes without any outside programs helping control them all. those days are done for so its only natural to say all good things come to a end we just adjust and move on to big and better games.


Just Another future change:

Moon Goo: Tell you the truth I can not wait till they make Moo mining a active process that will kill all the rich coalition leaders passive income. Yes i understand most coalitions use a lot of that isk to pay for wars and such, but a very large part of that profit from moon goo goes into leaders pockets which makes it worth controlling and leading such large grps, but when you take that income out it will be just like the rorq changes taking that passive boosting income out of the game.
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#492 - 2016-11-27 21:09:24 UTC
Cptcarter wrote:
................
You buy minerals...ok welll I am pure indy, I actually mine the minerals it takes to build the largest ships in the game with 12 accounts. ...................


"Pure Indy" - only, I suspect, as much 'Industrial' as EVE refers to a 'Hauler/Cargo Ship' - just like 'repairing things with a magic wand' is not 'Logistics'.

I suspect you mine and build. If you bought and sold, then you may well value your efforts differently. I assure you that the price of the average Titan has come down some 12,000 million (12b to those who are mathematically challenged) isk in just over the last week. The build cost has also reduced by over 2,000 million too.

Given I'm approaching wanting one - then I'll be trying hard to buy at the low end of the market and before prices begin to rise again.Blink

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#493 - 2016-11-27 23:53:36 UTC
theres a levi on market in maila thats pretty cheap atm.

its perfectly possible to build an avatar for 50b atm
Baki Yuku
Doomheim
#494 - 2016-11-28 06:46:14 UTC
Cptcarter wrote:
Ok so for that person that said they mined a Titan in 4 days with 4 rorquals..Prove it. I say your full of ****!

Titan cost about 100B isk, but it takes a little over that in minerals cost to build but for the sake of math we will just say 80B to be nice to your rorqs.

Roruals make 250m Isk per Hr that is very high considering drone speeds, how close rorual are to rocks, breaks, sleep ect....

80,000,000,000B / 250,000,000m/hr = 320Hr/4 rorq = 80 hrs

4 days x 24Hrs = 96 hrs

96Hr-80hr = 16Hrs of Free time in 4 days to sleep, eat , **** and I a hoping you have some life to have a woman to F%$K.

that means you sleep only 4hrs a day, and speed 24/7 playing eve and never stop mining and Remeber I was giving very high prices for ore price intake and very low cost for titan build.

You do the math, titan builder.


http://i.imgur.com/JvO1KzN.png

There you go btw you do not need to mine 100b you just need to mine 54b of minerals you need to build the damn thing:) its not that hard bro.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#495 - 2016-11-28 16:00:00 UTC
Baki Yuku wrote:
Cptcarter wrote:
Ok so for that person that said they mined a Titan in 4 days with 4 rorquals..Prove it. I say your full of ****!

Titan cost about 100B isk, but it takes a little over that in minerals cost to build but for the sake of math we will just say 80B to be nice to your rorqs.

Roruals make 250m Isk per Hr that is very high considering drone speeds, how close rorual are to rocks, breaks, sleep ect....

80,000,000,000B / 250,000,000m/hr = 320Hr/4 rorq = 80 hrs

4 days x 24Hrs = 96 hrs

96Hr-80hr = 16Hrs of Free time in 4 days to sleep, eat , **** and I a hoping you have some life to have a woman to F%$K.

that means you sleep only 4hrs a day, and speed 24/7 playing eve and never stop mining and Remeber I was giving very high prices for ore price intake and very low cost for titan build.

You do the math, titan builder.


http://i.imgur.com/JvO1KzN.png

There you go btw you do not need to mine 100b you just need to mine 54b of minerals you need to build the damn thing:) its not that hard bro.

I geuss we can trust your screenshots for as they are.

But you still haven't even covered any of your initial costs. You've got another 50b to go.

"You just need to mine 54b of minerals you need to build the damn thing"

Come on now, you've built a super before. You know better than to try and use mineral costs to judge the final price.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#496 - 2016-11-28 21:12:09 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Baki Yuku wrote:
Cptcarter wrote:
Ok so for that person that said they mined a Titan in 4 days with 4 rorquals..Prove it. I say your full of ****!

Titan cost about 100B isk, but it takes a little over that in minerals cost to build but for the sake of math we will just say 80B to be nice to your rorqs.

Roruals make 250m Isk per Hr that is very high considering drone speeds, how close rorual are to rocks, breaks, sleep ect....

80,000,000,000B / 250,000,000m/hr = 320Hr/4 rorq = 80 hrs

4 days x 24Hrs = 96 hrs

96Hr-80hr = 16Hrs of Free time in 4 days to sleep, eat , **** and I a hoping you have some life to have a woman to F%$K.

that means you sleep only 4hrs a day, and speed 24/7 playing eve and never stop mining and Remeber I was giving very high prices for ore price intake and very low cost for titan build.

You do the math, titan builder.


http://i.imgur.com/JvO1KzN.png

There you go btw you do not need to mine 100b you just need to mine 54b of minerals you need to build the damn thing:) its not that hard bro.

I geuss we can trust your screenshots for as they are.

But you still haven't even covered any of your initial costs. You've got another 50b to go.

"You just need to mine 54b of minerals you need to build the damn thing"

Come on now, you've built a super before. You know better than to try and use mineral costs to judge the final price.


I don't understand your comment about him needing another 50b to go. If you have minerals in the right proportions, it only takes around 54B worth of minerals to build an Avatar (assuming proper system upgrades and etc.).

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Cptcarter
State War Academy
Caldari State
#497 - 2016-11-28 21:28:29 UTC
I think we got away from the real frustrating side of the new indy changes. Most ppl realize that CCP know most all indy players with multi accounts do not pay real money for there account from the non-liquad isk we can accumulate within a month.

Change affects Pro and Cons:

1. Rorqs on the field = More kill-mils for PPL that look for content from new faces coming in to eve to WH grps and so on.

2. These changes will affect the total yield of minerals mined per account for those that can not use the rorq anymore do to risk being greater then the reward for using it. Before you choping at the bit at number 2 ( it is greatly rewarding if you have enough support to protect your rorq, or in an area of space relatively slow on roaming grps and campers but for a **** ton of other miners it means the reward does not out weight the risk.

3. I love the Rorq being out in the belts boost and mining but the being dead for 5mins at a time is totally unnecessary even with a Freeze option. that is why most ppl do not rat in Dreds due to the siege mode, if it did not need siege then hell yeh a ton of dred would be ratting it up. So forcing a rorq which is just like a dred plus or minus a couple attributes is just plain short sighted on CCP's part. Either it is short sided or CCP is doing this on purpose to shrink the multi mining account players.

4. These changes also affect the Indy Pups, the guys that only have one account and like to mine, Switching to a porpise for boost will mean these miners will rather rat then mine in order to have isk rolling in. I hate turning down so many ppl that I used to boost for because of the space we live in is to dangerous and the booster must be active 24/7, if I go for break, afk that hurts them the most.

5. The Capital mining drones having the Elite Drone AI x 50 as part of the materials to build is just lacking in thought to who decided this. Correct me if I am wrong but Drone NPC space has the best Bounty's because they do not drop loot beside elite drone AI's ? and now you are giving them a 15m isk per drone AI on top of that? I mean damn make it to where they drop in say the combat site you scan done, data site and relic site of all drone space. Dont just have small grps able to monopolize on this. Yes Yes I know once the demand goes down the prices will drop but you are looking at months from now so that means guys who do not have 5B to spend on capital drones that are easily killed will be stuck with sub pare mining drones making the reward of mining with a rorq not greater then the risk.

6. I hate saying this but I will, I love mining, building ships for so many ppl, it helps with my stress and PTSD, and to escape real life for a little bit. But since these changes it is apparent that I am feeling more and more inclined to look else where to other games and future games coming out. I get on and pvp more then I used to, Rat more then I every had and I am constantly wishing mining would be able to sustain most of my accounts. these changes force me to look into extracting all my alt skills and throwing those on the market and keeping just a couple accounts to pvp and rat to pass the time till another game comes around that catches my eye like EVE did. I know they will never change the rorq's indy core cause this is what CCP wants from now on so like one corp in the game is appropriately named " Just Let It happen " lol

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#498 - 2016-11-29 01:43:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
FT Diomedes wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Baki Yuku wrote:
Cptcarter wrote:
Ok so for that person that said they mined a Titan in 4 days with 4 rorquals..Prove it. I say your full of ****!

Titan cost about 100B isk, but it takes a little over that in minerals cost to build but for the sake of math we will just say 80B to be nice to your rorqs.

Roruals make 250m Isk per Hr that is very high considering drone speeds, how close rorual are to rocks, breaks, sleep ect....

80,000,000,000B / 250,000,000m/hr = 320Hr/4 rorq = 80 hrs

4 days x 24Hrs = 96 hrs

96Hr-80hr = 16Hrs of Free time in 4 days to sleep, eat , **** and I a hoping you have some life to have a woman to F%$K.

that means you sleep only 4hrs a day, and speed 24/7 playing eve and never stop mining and Remeber I was giving very high prices for ore price intake and very low cost for titan build.

You do the math, titan builder.


http://i.imgur.com/JvO1KzN.png

There you go btw you do not need to mine 100b you just need to mine 54b of minerals you need to build the damn thing:) its not that hard bro.

I geuss we can trust your screenshots for as they are.

But you still haven't even covered any of your initial costs. You've got another 50b to go.

"You just need to mine 54b of minerals you need to build the damn thing"

Come on now, you've built a super before. You know better than to try and use mineral costs to judge the final price.


I don't understand your comment about him needing another 50b to go. If you have minerals in the right proportions, it only takes around 54B worth of minerals to build an Avatar (assuming proper system upgrades and etc.).

Based on his statement before, the requirement/necessity to have FAXes and carriers on standby, he has just ecplipsed that initial cost. I'd venture to geuss that before the rorq and 'support ships' were bought, he had enough to build the Titan in the first place. Definitely enough to build a supercarrier or two.

Which is the main point I'm trying to make: regardless of who can or how it can be done, the requirements he described are extremely high, especially to use as a minimum standard.

I'm not fooled into thinking that what he suggests is actually what's needed (I'm certain that most rorq pilots operate without it, to an unknown degree of success), I'm just pointing out some of the big holes in his initial argument earlier.

However, his post aside, my biggest contention with the rorqual will continue to be what it was before: Boosts requiring siege.

If mining 200-400mil an hour is a little high or just right on terms of reward v benefit, certainly a 10-15%(?) difference in boosting power has been wholly overshadowed in its necessity to continue remain tied to the same indy core.

I've got other little complaints, but none as major as that one.
Cade Windstalker
#499 - 2016-11-29 04:35:54 UTC
I'd just like to point out that, for the month of November, the combat efficiency of the Rorqual actually went *up* despite loss value being up 400% over October. That's because kill value is up something like 1000% over the average and total kills are up over 1000% as well, so while Rorquals are certainly dying more now they're fighting back a lot more too.

If anyone's willing to put in the work it'd be really interesting to do some data mining and figure out how many of those kills represent failed serious gank attempts (as opposed to idiots, testing, and battle-rorquals) but it's certainly more than zero as several posts in this thread have attested.

If anyone wants a good laugh flip through the kills and look for singles as opposed to the PL guy who is apparently taking his Rorqual on fleet ops. There's at least one poorly fit Carrier that got baited on a Rorqual and then killed and some other funny ones besides, it's pretty hilarious Lol
Baki Yuku
Doomheim
#500 - 2016-11-29 10:05:01 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Baki Yuku wrote:
Cptcarter wrote:
Ok so for that person that said they mined a Titan in 4 days with 4 rorquals..Prove it. I say your full of ****!

Titan cost about 100B isk, but it takes a little over that in minerals cost to build but for the sake of math we will just say 80B to be nice to your rorqs.

Roruals make 250m Isk per Hr that is very high considering drone speeds, how close rorual are to rocks, breaks, sleep ect....

80,000,000,000B / 250,000,000m/hr = 320Hr/4 rorq = 80 hrs

4 days x 24Hrs = 96 hrs

96Hr-80hr = 16Hrs of Free time in 4 days to sleep, eat , **** and I a hoping you have some life to have a woman to F%$K.

that means you sleep only 4hrs a day, and speed 24/7 playing eve and never stop mining and Remeber I was giving very high prices for ore price intake and very low cost for titan build.

You do the math, titan builder.


http://i.imgur.com/JvO1KzN.png

There you go btw you do not need to mine 100b you just need to mine 54b of minerals you need to build the damn thing:) its not that hard bro.

I geuss we can trust your screenshots for as they are.

But you still haven't even covered any of your initial costs. You've got another 50b to go.

"You just need to mine 54b of minerals you need to build the damn thing"

Come on now, you've built a super before. You know better than to try and use mineral costs to judge the final price.


Mine another 12b yesterday so ya its fine:) as far as other cost go ya job install cost and cost for the building cits you got that right but at least I won't have any cost in regards to BPC's because I own all the bpos:) But you gotta remember that the setup cost gets broken down across multiple builds not just one.

Setup cost 5,8b for the Raitaru with T2 rigs and 100b for Sotiyo BPO (well not really since I also sell bpc's now so... doesnt really count as cost) 25b build cost for the Sotiyo 23b for the Rig. So thats an extra 58,8b setup cost. Which if spread across 10 builds is 5,88b extra cost per build.