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[November] Rorqual Changes

First post First post First post
Author
Quinthell
0nly Pixels
Brave Collective
#461 - 2016-11-18 22:40:23 UTC
Not sure if this is ok to ask here as I've never posted on the forums. Does anyone have a fitting for the new Rorq? Or can you point me to someone or somewhere that does?
TomyLobo
Negative Density
D3nse Matter
#462 - 2016-11-19 20:23:02 UTC
CCP, plz fix the build requirements of the excavator drones. The blueprints are down to 300mil but that doesn't stop a full set of squishy drones costing 2.5bil at the very least. CMON. This is ridiculous on all counts.
Cade Windstalker
#463 - 2016-11-20 02:12:27 UTC
I said it before I'll say it again... though if you're not informed on how market prices react around patch releases then you may want to go read up.

The price will drop as supply increases. We're still in the first few weeks after a patch, we won't see prices stabilize for a month or more. If you want the new goodies early then expect to pay a premium for it.
Cptcarter
Amazing Super Slackers
Requiem Eternal
#464 - 2016-11-21 06:37:29 UTC
Does anyone else see the bonus's applied to the Rorqs dps and mining drones when in indy mode? The damage modifiers, speed, mining amounts do not change ounce the indy mode is onlined.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#465 - 2016-11-22 00:06:59 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
I said it before I'll say it again... though if you're not informed on how market prices react around patch releases then you may want to go read up.

The price will drop as supply increases. We're still in the first few weeks after a patch, we won't see prices stabilize for a month or more. If you want the new goodies early then expect to pay a premium for it.

Honestly, even without the blueprint cost, these things are rediculously exspensive. Just the mats put the build cost anywhere between 400-700mil. Vast majority of it depends on Elite Drone AI which was already the bottleneck for the rest of the 'augmented' drone line. And unless I've missed something, there hasn't been a change in supply.

The fact that a single drone has a comparable price tag to a full loadout of T2 fighter bombers + T2 support fighters seems well out of line. Only drone/fighter that seems o have a comparable price tag is the shadow.

I could probably list a dozen other considerations about these excavators, but I really don't see the price dropping lower than 400 on a good day.
Cade Windstalker
#466 - 2016-11-22 04:09:59 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
I said it before I'll say it again... though if you're not informed on how market prices react around patch releases then you may want to go read up.

The price will drop as supply increases. We're still in the first few weeks after a patch, we won't see prices stabilize for a month or more. If you want the new goodies early then expect to pay a premium for it.

Honestly, even without the blueprint cost, these things are rediculously exspensive. Just the mats put the build cost anywhere between 400-700mil. Vast majority of it depends on Elite Drone AI which was already the bottleneck for the rest of the 'augmented' drone line. And unless I've missed something, there hasn't been a change in supply.

The fact that a single drone has a comparable price tag to a full loadout of T2 fighter bombers + T2 support fighters seems well out of line. Only drone/fighter that seems o have a comparable price tag is the shadow.

I could probably list a dozen other considerations about these excavators, but I really don't see the price dropping lower than 400 on a good day.


Possibly, then again we're talking about something that replaces a ship worth about 300m with fittings, and the Rorqual itself isn't *that* expensive after insurance.

That said, I do agree that 400m for a drone that's pretty easily killed does seem like a bit much. Kind of amazed no one looked at the build requirements for these and brought it up though.
TomyLobo
Negative Density
D3nse Matter
#467 - 2016-11-22 05:57:34 UTC  |  Edited by: TomyLobo
Cade Windstalker wrote:
I said it before I'll say it again... though if you're not informed on how market prices react around patch releases then you may want to go read up.

The price will drop as supply increases. We're still in the first few weeks after a patch, we won't see prices stabilize for a month or more. If you want the new goodies early then expect to pay a premium for it.

The current price for a set is 6bil and that isn't first day prices so 2.5bil for a set is hoping the mats drop in price to much lower than it ever was even before this drone was announced.
Cptcarter
Amazing Super Slackers
Requiem Eternal
#468 - 2016-11-22 06:09:43 UTC
1. Those saying the cost is right compared to how much they mine! Either you know nothing about mining or indy play for that matter or your just one of the many grps wanting to farm for nice Rorq kills with 5B worth of capital mining drones in it belly.

2. The Risk = Reward , Many of you hardcore PvP players like content and hunting indy players along with hunting ratters, and if you get lucky catching a carrier or super with your bomber fleet in range to jump in.

The rorq if maxed skilled could mine 18,000 m3 /min which let me relate it in terms you non indy players can understand. Every hr a Rorq could mine 1m m3 of ore /Hr which is about 250m isk/hr for reg ore.

3. It would take a rorq 20hrs just to mine 5B isk worth of ore to pay for the capital drones but that is only if a rorq is right up against the rocks it mines.

4. The risk , does not out way the reward so the only option is to either mine with just a porpise or indy players switch to just ratting.

5. There are not many grps in eve that are able to form a grp fast enough to help a Rorq if caught, so the 2000dps, which if fitted right can shield boost 7800k dps for 5mins with resist at 75%.

So now Rorq will not be used nearly as much once enough ppl lose there rorqs risking them in the belts.

6. If you want a mining drone to mine the same as a hulk then they should cost about the same as a hulk. 1B isk per capital drone is way to high even though it was just implemented this week.

7. boost the drop rate of the Elite drone AI's till the prices drop and reset it. that simple.
Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#469 - 2016-11-22 14:51:08 UTC
Cptcarter wrote:
1. Those saying the cost is right compared to how much they mine! Either you know nothing about mining or indy play for that matter or your just one of the many grps wanting to farm for nice Rorq kills with 5B worth of capital mining drones in it belly.

2. The Risk = Reward , Many of you hardcore PvP players like content and hunting indy players along with hunting ratters, and if you get lucky catching a carrier or super with your bomber fleet in range to jump in.

The rorq if maxed skilled could mine 18,000 m3 /min which let me relate it in terms you non indy players can understand. Every hr a Rorq could mine 1m m3 of ore /Hr which is about 250m isk/hr for reg ore.

3. It would take a rorq 20hrs just to mine 5B isk worth of ore to pay for the capital drones but that is only if a rorq is right up against the rocks it mines.

4. The risk , does not out way the reward so the only option is to either mine with just a porpise or indy players switch to just ratting.

5. There are not many grps in eve that are able to form a grp fast enough to help a Rorq if caught, so the 2000dps, which if fitted right can shield boost 7800k dps for 5mins with resist at 75%.

So now Rorq will not be used nearly as much once enough ppl lose there rorqs risking them in the belts.

6. If you want a mining drone to mine the same as a hulk then they should cost about the same as a hulk. 1B isk per capital drone is way to high even though it was just implemented this week.

7. boost the drop rate of the Elite drone AI's till the prices drop and reset it. that simple.

If you can only squeeze a tank of 7800dps out of a sieged Rorqual, you are terrible at fitting. I can pretty easily squeeze 50000 DPS tank out of it, and that's before links.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Cade Windstalker
#470 - 2016-11-22 19:44:26 UTC
Cptcarter wrote:
1. Those saying the cost is right compared to how much they mine! Either you know nothing about mining or indy play for that matter or your just one of the many grps wanting to farm for nice Rorq kills with 5B worth of capital mining drones in it belly.

2. The Risk = Reward , Many of you hardcore PvP players like content and hunting indy players along with hunting ratters, and if you get lucky catching a carrier or super with your bomber fleet in range to jump in.

The rorq if maxed skilled could mine 18,000 m3 /min which let me relate it in terms you non indy players can understand. Every hr a Rorq could mine 1m m3 of ore /Hr which is about 250m isk/hr for reg ore.

3. It would take a rorq 20hrs just to mine 5B isk worth of ore to pay for the capital drones but that is only if a rorq is right up against the rocks it mines.

4. The risk , does not out way the reward so the only option is to either mine with just a porpise or indy players switch to just ratting.

5. There are not many grps in eve that are able to form a grp fast enough to help a Rorq if caught, so the 2000dps, which if fitted right can shield boost 7800k dps for 5mins with resist at 75%.

So now Rorq will not be used nearly as much once enough ppl lose there rorqs risking them in the belts.

6. If you want a mining drone to mine the same as a hulk then they should cost about the same as a hulk. 1B isk per capital drone is way to high even though it was just implemented this week.

7. boost the drop rate of the Elite drone AI's till the prices drop and reset it. that simple.


First off I agree that the price of these drones is pretty prohibitive right now and should be looked at.

That said, I take issue with a few of your logical points here.

First off, the idea that not many people are able to scramble a fleet in 10 minutes to protect a Rorqual. Speaking as someone who spent *years* with Eve Uni helping newbies I can say from experience that this is mostly a matter of numbers and practice on the part of those in charge. If you have leadership that is practiced at getting people into a fleet and deployed quickly then even if you're working with week old newbies you can absolutely get a fleet out and shooting things in under 10 minutes. So while this may be true right now there's no reason it has to remain true except for laziness and a lack of organization.

It's also not really true that the cost of the drones is going to make Rorquals used less than they are right now considering the only use for a Rorqual before this patch was an off-grid booster, which is a role that could have been seamlessly replaced with an anchorable structure. There's also still a fairly strong incentive to use a boosting Rorqual without the Excavator Drones. It's not like you *need* the Excavators to make the Rorqual worth using in a mining fleet, they're just very nice to have.
Baki Yuku
Doomheim
#471 - 2016-11-23 08:01:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Baki Yuku
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
Cptcarter wrote:
1. Those saying the cost is right compared to how much they mine! Either you know nothing about mining or indy play for that matter or your just one of the many grps wanting to farm for nice Rorq kills with 5B worth of capital mining drones in it belly.

2. The Risk = Reward , Many of you hardcore PvP players like content and hunting indy players along with hunting ratters, and if you get lucky catching a carrier or super with your bomber fleet in range to jump in.

The rorq if maxed skilled could mine 18,000 m3 /min which let me relate it in terms you non indy players can understand. Every hr a Rorq could mine 1m m3 of ore /Hr which is about 250m isk/hr for reg ore.

3. It would take a rorq 20hrs just to mine 5B isk worth of ore to pay for the capital drones but that is only if a rorq is right up against the rocks it mines.

4. The risk , does not out way the reward so the only option is to either mine with just a porpise or indy players switch to just ratting.

5. There are not many grps in eve that are able to form a grp fast enough to help a Rorq if caught, so the 2000dps, which if fitted right can shield boost 7800k dps for 5mins with resist at 75%.

So now Rorq will not be used nearly as much once enough ppl lose there rorqs risking them in the belts.

6. If you want a mining drone to mine the same as a hulk then they should cost about the same as a hulk. 1B isk per capital drone is way to high even though it was just implemented this week.

7. boost the drop rate of the Elite drone AI's till the prices drop and reset it. that simple.

If you can only squeeze a tank of 7800dps out of a sieged Rorqual, you are terrible at fitting. I can pretty easily squeeze 50000 DPS tank out of it, and that's before links.


1. They make way more then 250m/h I'd suggest you fit Drone Mining Rigs (2x T2 1xT1) second if you don't have an alliance that can form a response in ~7min to help you you shouldnt use it?
2. If you do not know where the hostiles that might gun for your rorqual come from and have eyes there you deserve whats coming to you.
3. We life in fountain goons, fcore and REDMEME are gunning for our rorquals all the time yet we haven't lost a single one yet and our alliance is tiny compared to goons and stuff. If we can do it pretty sure everyone other then renters can.
4. If you active (local tank) your rorqual you are doing it wrong. Local tank will never safe you the magic that is the cyno always will doh asuming your alliance is able to form a half decent fleet in time and have non **** fit fax.
5. All the nerds crying over the price of the drones suck it up the price is more then justified for a drone that allows you to mine 1.8milliion m³ per hour. The rorqual is to people that want to mine what the nyx is to people that what to drop ****. Endgame it shouldn't come cheap. It takes ~7 hours of mining to make back what the drones cost you if you are mining in +10% hidden belts. Fully decked out rorqual with really good fit is 12b which you make back in ~20 hours of mining that seems pretty balanced to me. Especially when compared to carrier ratting decent ratting carrier with t2 figthers etc is ~5b if you include refits and **** and makes ~200m/h that means it takes 25 hours before you start turning a "profit". So all of you stop being a *****!


I can't belive people still havent figured this out in 2000 freaking 16.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#472 - 2016-11-23 20:11:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
Baki Yuku wrote:

1. They make way more then 250m/h I'd suggest you fit Drone Mining Rigs (2x T2 1xT1) second if you don't have an alliance that can form a response in ~7min to help you you shouldnt use it?
2. If you do not know where the hostiles that might gun for your rorqual come from and have eyes there you deserve whats coming to you.
3. We life in fountain goons, fcore and REDMEME are gunning for our rorquals all the time yet we haven't lost a single one yet and our alliance is tiny compared to goons and stuff. If we can do it pretty sure everyone other then renters can.
4. If you active (local tank) your rorqual you are doing it wrong. Local tank will never safe you the magic that is the cyno always will doh asuming your alliance is able to form a half decent fleet in time and have non **** fit fax.
5. All the nerds crying over the price of the drones suck it up the price is more then justified for a drone that allows you to mine 1.8milliion m³ per hour. The rorqual is to people that want to mine what the nyx is to people that what to drop ****. Endgame it shouldn't come cheap. It takes ~7 hours of mining to make back what the drones cost you if you are mining in +10% hidden belts. Fully decked out rorqual with really good fit is 12b which you make back in ~20 hours of mining that seems pretty balanced to me. Especially when compared to carrier ratting decent ratting carrier with t2 figthers etc is ~5b if you include refits and **** and makes ~200m/h that means it takes 25 hours before you start turning a "profit". So all of you stop being a *****!


I can't belive people still havent figured this out in 2000 freaking 16.

1. Most people probably can't form a fleet and travel to rescue in that time. Best ive heard recently was PL getting in blops in just under 5 minutes. So for any group that doesn't have 40 blops on standby, geuss they're screwed?
2. "Hostiles that might gun for your Rorqual" so what's that? 50k people in eve? Couple hundred different staging systems? Might get lucky if you have eyes in a pipe. Hopefully.
3. Ok?
4. Geuss it depends on what situations think will happen more. Matter of opinion I geuss.
5. youll never reach 1.8m/hr, gauruntee it. In the most efficient of scenarios you're probably looking at closer to 1.4 - 1.5. And of course, under the absolute best circumstances, you could potentially mine 400m/hr. But that's absolutely perfect circumstances. Which don't happen often, unless you've figured out a way to spawn 1.8mil m/3 Prime Ark asteroid. And of course them we have to consider whether or not you fit modules to get closer to that max yield, otherwise we're back down to the more reasonable 250m/hr average, which comes at the cost of that buffer tank you were looking at earlier. A fair decision to make, but let's not pretend we can do everything at once.

12B fittings? Honestly I'd probably geuss 7-8 bil once the prices come down (assuming they get to 400mil). But even once they reach that low, you're still using a drone that costs as much as a flight of T2 fighter bombers. Doesn't seem quite fair to make them cost as much as the only pirate faction fighter. Or a full carrier hangar of T2 fighters. If the price doesn't drop substantially in the next few months, then it is definitely broken.

I'm very loathe to seriously consider the math of someone who spent 5b on a ratting carrier. Refits or not, unless you've got officer mods in there, you got scammed. I think my fit only ranges around 2.5-3 bil? Also I make 200m/r running some really ****** sites in bad truesec. And of the two ships, I'm pretty confident that carriers have a much higher chance of escaping from a threat. I geuss we'll have to how the rorq plays out in the future a bit more. If you're going to assume the best case for the rorq, I think it's a little unfair of you to use average numbers for your counter argument.

The rorqual isn't as big of a money grinding machine as you play it out to be. It's definitely good, especially as mining is concerned. However, it's a bit off balance to its costs.
Berengar Barnes
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#473 - 2016-11-24 08:16:56 UTC
Scrolling down the rorqual-losses on zkillboard is hilarious. What a brutal slaughter. It doesnt matter what your rorqual-fitting looks like .. most of the fits are terrible but even a expensive faction-fit wont help you against 2 supercarrier or 100 bombers.

Its time to realize that this update was not about mining or industry. -It is about social structures in eve: Your alliance is not able to counter a massive hotdrop on your miners just in time? Ok, in this case you should join an bigger alliance.Nah, i dont want to be rude BUT: There are a lot of small corps and alliances in nullsec that are not able to hold their own SOV and at this point CCP decided that they should not be able to protect their (rorq-boosted )mining-fleets as well, because not being able to hold and defend SOV results in not being able to make profit from the most lucrative harvesting-methods.

I am not a big player and i am not in a big nullsec-alliance. So.. yeah.. the time of making billions of isk with offgrid-boosts is over for mee too (as soon as my rorq appears on zkill). Its time to adapt to the new situation:

1) Maybe you're ok with having only orca-boost. In this case your profits will be lower but you can go on like before the update.

2) You can join an alliance that actually has the power to save your fleet. I'm sure many small nullsec-corps will be affected by this update in the way that miners/industrials will leave.

3) You can quit mining and do something else.

4) You can try to mine with rorqual-boost and maybe you're lucky and make more profit than mining with orca-boost even if you lose your rorqual on a regular basis.

Baki Yuku
Doomheim
#474 - 2016-11-24 13:01:38 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Max Trix
Rowells wrote:
Baki Yuku wrote:

1. They make way more then 250m/h I'd suggest you fit Drone Mining Rigs (2x T2 1xT1) second if you don't have an alliance that can form a response in ~7min to help you you shouldnt use it?
2. If you do not know where the hostiles that might gun for your rorqual come from and have eyes there you deserve whats coming to you.
3. We life in fountain goons, fcore and REDMEME are gunning for our rorquals all the time yet we haven't lost a single one yet and our alliance is tiny compared to goons and stuff. If we can do it pretty sure everyone other then renters can.
4. If you active (local tank) your rorqual you are doing it wrong. Local tank will never safe you the magic that is the cyno always will doh asuming your alliance is able to form a half decent fleet in time and have non **** fit fax.
5. All the nerds crying over the price of the drones suck it up the price is more then justified for a drone that allows you to mine 1.8milliion m³ per hour. The rorqual is to people that want to mine what the nyx is to people that what to drop ****. Endgame it shouldn't come cheap. It takes ~7 hours of mining to make back what the drones cost you if you are mining in +10% hidden belts. Fully decked out rorqual with really good fit is 12b which you make back in ~20 hours of mining that seems pretty balanced to me. Especially when compared to carrier ratting decent ratting carrier with t2 figthers etc is ~5b if you include refits and **** and makes ~200m/h that means it takes 25 hours before you start turning a "profit". So all of you stop being a *****!


I can't belive people still havent figured this out in 2000 freaking 16.

1. Most people probably can't form a fleet and travel to rescue in that time. Best ive heard recently was PL getting in blops in just under 5 minutes. So for any group that doesn't have 40 blops on standby, geuss they're screwed?
2. "Hostiles that might gun for your Rorqual" so what's that? 50k people in eve? Couple hundred different staging systems? Might get lucky if you have eyes in a pipe. Hopefully.
3. Ok?
4. Geuss it depends on what situations think will happen more. Matter of opinion I geuss.
5. youll never reach 1.8m/hr, gauruntee it. In the most efficient of scenarios you're probably looking at closer to 1.4 - 1.5. And of course, under the absolute best circumstances, you could potentially mine 400m/hr. But that's absolutely perfect circumstances. Which don't happen often, unless you've figured out a way to spawn 1.8mil m/3 Prime Ark asteroid. And of course them we have to consider whether or not you fit modules to get closer to that max yield, otherwise we're back down to the more reasonable 250m/hr average, which comes at the cost of that buffer tank you were looking at earlier. A fair decision to make, but let's not pretend we can do everything at once.

12B fittings? Honestly I'd probably geuss 7-8 bil once the prices come down (assuming they get to 400mil). But even once they reach that low, you're still using a drone that costs as much as a flight of T2 fighter bombers. Doesn't seem quite fair to make them cost as much as the only pirate faction fighter. Or a full carrier hangar of T2 fighters. If the price doesn't drop substantially in the next few months, then it is definitely broken.

I'm very loathe to seriously consider the math of someone who spent 5b on a ratting carrier. Refits or not, unless you've got officer mods in there, you got scammed. I think my fit only ranges around 2.5-3 bil? Also I make 200m/r running some really ****** sites in bad truesec. And of the two ships, I'm pretty confident that carriers have a much higher chance of escaping from a threat. I geuss we'll have to how the rorq plays out in the future a bit more. If you're going to assume the best case for the rorq, I think it's a little unfair of you to use average numbers for your counter argument.

The rorqual isn't as big of a money grinding machine as you play it out to be. It's definitely good, especially as mining is concerned. However, it's a bit off balance to its costs.


Not sure if serious but we have fax on standby at all times so if carriers or rorquals get tackled while jewing first thing that goes in is a ton of combat carriers and a few fax.. and if then there is still a need you have all the time in the world to form a subcap fleet. So ya if your alliance can't figure out to have a standing fleet with fax alts on standby maybe they should not use rorquals. And nop Ratting carrier which for our alliance is simply our combat carriers with all the refits and **** is about 5b atleast they life and dont just die before triage loads grid when bombersbar unloads 80 bombers. Which did happen and guess what we didnt loss **** all. Jewing is fine everyone has to make isk somehow the difference is doing it in non ******** ways.

As for the argument that there are 50k people in eve no not really most of the time its more like 25k... and even then dudes from WH's arent really something you'd fear because they can't cap escalate you while you can unload everything on them at reasonable risk. The real risk is the dudes living around the corner which in our case is goons and they have tried to snagg our **** multiple times yet never get it because we see them coming exit industry mode and **** off.. Like having eyes also means having a freaking brain.

The only thing I'd argue for is more base speed on the drones given the price tag and given that they are supposed to be the big brother of the other augmented harvester drones yet they only got 1/3 of their base speed. Otherwise everything else is perfectly fine.
Baki Yuku
Doomheim
#475 - 2016-11-24 13:09:07 UTC
Berengar Barnes wrote:
Scrolling down the rorqual-losses on zkillboard is hilarious. What a brutal slaughter. It doesnt matter what your rorqual-fitting looks like .. most of the fits are terrible but even a expensive faction-fit wont help you against 2 supercarrier or 100 bombers.

Its time to realize that this update was not about mining or industry. -It is about social structures in eve: Your alliance is not able to counter a massive hotdrop on your miners just in time? Ok, in this case you should join an bigger alliance.Nah, i dont want to be rude BUT: There are a lot of small corps and alliances in nullsec that are not able to hold their own SOV and at this point CCP decided that they should not be able to protect their (rorq-boosted )mining-fleets as well, because not being able to hold and defend SOV results in not being able to make profit from the most lucrative harvesting-methods.

I am not a big player and i am not in a big nullsec-alliance. So.. yeah.. the time of making billions of isk with offgrid-boosts is over for mee too (as soon as my rorq appears on zkill). Its time to adapt to the new situation:

1) Maybe you're ok with having only orca-boost. In this case your profits will be lower but you can go on like before the update.

2) You can join an alliance that actually has the power to save your fleet. I'm sure many small nullsec-corps will be affected by this update in the way that miners/industrials will leave.

3) You can quit mining and do something else.

4) You can try to mine with rorqual-boost and maybe you're lucky and make more profit than mining with orca-boost even if you lose your rorqual on a regular basis.



If your alliance/corp can not deal with 2 supers and ~15 subcaps you should not use rorquals? They are not for everyone if you do not like the risk do not use them! It takes effort to make them "safe" to use. If your alliance/corp is/are unable or unwilling to put forth that effort you do not deserve the reward sorry. But that's balance.
Berengar Barnes
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#476 - 2016-11-24 15:23:52 UTC
Baki Yuku wrote:
Berengar Barnes wrote:
Scrolling down the rorqual-losses on zkillboard is hilarious. What a brutal slaughter. It doesnt matter what your rorqual-fitting looks like .. most of the fits are terrible but even a expensive faction-fit wont help you against 2 supercarrier or 100 bombers.

Its time to realize that this update was not about mining or industry. -It is about social structures in eve: Your alliance is not able to counter a massive hotdrop on your miners just in time? Ok, in this case you should join an bigger alliance.Nah, i dont want to be rude BUT: There are a lot of small corps and alliances in nullsec that are not able to hold their own SOV and at this point CCP decided that they should not be able to protect their (rorq-boosted )mining-fleets as well, because not being able to hold and defend SOV results in not being able to make profit from the most lucrative harvesting-methods.

I am not a big player and i am not in a big nullsec-alliance. So.. yeah.. the time of making billions of isk with offgrid-boosts is over for mee too (as soon as my rorq appears on zkill). Its time to adapt to the new situation:

1) Maybe you're ok with having only orca-boost. In this case your profits will be lower but you can go on like before the update.

2) You can join an alliance that actually has the power to save your fleet. I'm sure many small nullsec-corps will be affected by this update in the way that miners/industrials will leave.

3) You can quit mining and do something else.

4) You can try to mine with rorqual-boost and maybe you're lucky and make more profit than mining with orca-boost even if you lose your rorqual on a regular basis.



If your alliance/corp can not deal with 2 supers and ~15 subcaps you should not use rorquals? They are not for everyone if you do not like the risk do not use them! It takes effort to make them "safe" to use. If your alliance/corp is/are unable or unwilling to put forth that effort you do not deserve the reward sorry. But that's balance.



Did you even read the post? Give it a try!
Cptcarter
Amazing Super Slackers
Requiem Eternal
#477 - 2016-11-25 01:20:50 UTC
1. If your going to say something please know what your talking about.

2. 50,000 player..LMAO, more like total of 21k accounts on a good day, since most hardcore players have mutli acounts, give say 1/3 of these accounts are alts doing things like camping, scouting, Multi account mining, Multi account ratting and pvp, Cyno alts list goes on.

3. You can get your rorq to activaly boost for 50,000 DPS, WTF are you smoking , They can Shield boost the same as a Dred which Tech2 fitting is around 7k-9k DPS per second , which your resist should be above 70% resist across the board, that means only 30% of the enemy dps will count towards that shield boosting amount. This boosting amount will last about 10mins with maxed skills and without you fitting Capacity buffers, expand, regens.

4. Without the Rorq your mining amount drops over 60% total yield per hr. With Porpios your mining about 35% less then if your boosted by a Rorq.

5. Most hardcore miners have at least 3-10 accounts mining with dedicated off field boosting. I have no problem with the rorq being a On Grid boosters, but having it stuck for 5 Mins is total bull Crap. Even without the indy core 5min O **** Handle, It very slow to get into warp, your constantly moving it to get closer to rocks, this alone makes it a great target . Giving it 5mins at a time stuck just basically is CCP's way of saying stop the Multi account mining, Time to slow down how much is mined in nul and lowsec.

6. Those that say if you corp or allaince is not big enough to defend a Rorq either dont use it or join one that can protect you. Your either have little exp in eve, or like I said before your that person that wants the easy killmills.

CCP This is for you: Rorqual = Easy Killmil now! its that simple.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#478 - 2016-11-25 01:44:57 UTC
One of my corpmates got tackled in his Rorqual the other day. He was already on comms and stayed calm. Hostiles brought a 40-man Gila gang. They had around 25 Gilas, 8 logistics, 2 HIC's, and the rest tackle. He tanked that gang easily while we formed. We had FAX ready to jump to him inside of a minute, but we did not drop it. He just tanked them. He did not even have to use the PANIC module. We ended up letting him tank them for 25 minutes while we took Machariels by bridge and then five gate jumps to trap the hostile fleet. Then we killed most of them. I think the Rorqual might be a little bit OP.

If you don't have friends who can support you, don't Siege your Rorqual. Just fit a Higgs Anchor to it and mine aligned out of Siege. Or just use an Orca.

It feels kind of strange: I agreed with every single thing Baki Yuku said. Good posts, man. I always heard you were batshit crazy.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#479 - 2016-11-26 08:19:05 UTC
Baki Yuku wrote:
Not sure if serious but we have fax on standby at all times so if carriers or rorquals get tackled while jewing first thing that goes in is a ton of combat carriers and a few fax.. and if then there is still a need you have all the time in the world to form a subcap fleet. So ya if your alliance can't figure out to have a standing fleet with fax alts on standby maybe they should not use rorquals. And nop Ratting carrier which for our alliance is simply our combat carriers with all the refits and **** is about 5b atleast they life and dont just die before triage loads grid when bombersbar unloads 80 bombers. Which did happen and guess what we didnt loss **** all. Jewing is fine everyone has to make isk somehow the difference is doing it in non ******** ways.


If you're really going to try and justify the need for a full capital fleet to be on standby for a mining operation, then just discussing the rorqual itself as the only cost is missing a huge chunk of the picture. By that requirement alone, you've increased the cost to operate this ship by tens of billions. Not to mention the fact that babysitting ratters and miners has proven to be one of the few tasks actually more boring than ratting or mining. Which is a terrible gameplay design in of itself.

And no, you don't need a full PLEX-in-cargo refit in order to rat. Just because you require people to fit skill injectors in their tank slots, doesn't mean your solution is even close to being near the norm, or the minimum. I use a slightly modified combat fit for my ratting, and even with all modules and refits in cargo, I've never surpassed 3bn in cost. Especially considering that its extremely easy to avoid getting caught in any ratting ship that isn't sieged. Too bad Excavators can't follow you in warp.

Baki Yuku wrote:
As for the argument that there are 50k people in eve no not really most of the time its more like 25k... and even then dudes from WH's arent really something you'd fear because they can't cap escalate you while you can unload everything on them at reasonable risk. The real risk is the dudes living around the corner which in our case is goons and they have tried to snagg our **** multiple times yet never get it because we see them coming exit industry mode and **** off.. Like having eyes also means having a freaking brain.


You know, the point of that argument was to show how ridiculous your statement was. Reducing 50k down to 25k still doesn't make your definition of "the hostiles that might gun for your rorqual" any more reasonable. Unless you can find the 20k people who don't want to get on a cap kill, should the opportunity arise. And I pity the person who takes your "don't worry about wormholes" comment seriously. They regularly hunt and kill capitals. They have regularly been able to shove enough ships through a hole to kill supers and titans. Some groups specifically live in wormholes for this kind of content.

Baki Yuku wrote:
The only thing I'd argue for is more base speed on the drones given the price tag and given that they are supposed to be the big brother of the other augmented harvester drones yet they only got 1/3 of their base speed. Otherwise everything else is perfectly fine.

I won't argue on the speed. The max vs real is way to dependent on the speed to really make any other choices near as important as placement.

However, the rorq is full of annoting little 'features' that have all compiled to make it a sub-par experience. It is quite a ways from perfectly fine.
Gaara's sniper
MLG1337420BlazeIt360TitanNoScopeCorporationSWAG
Goonswarm Federation
#480 - 2016-11-26 16:15:44 UTC
New rorquals are not possible to use as afk ratting ships, because frigate and cruiser npcs keep focusing on drones no matter the aggro mechanics you use(command links, ecm burst, shield emissions, warp scramblers).

CCPLS

Make afk Ishtars great again.