These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[December] Defender Missiles

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Olmeca Gold
The Free Folk
#61 - 2016-11-26 13:40:26 UTC
Querns wrote:
Olmeca Gold wrote:

Well actually I wish DBRB was CSM or something, at least some bomber voice would be heard, and he is the only one FC from null that I know. And you will prolly be replaced by other null people, so that changes nothing from our perspective.


So vote, and be the change you wish to see.


Thats really idealist of you :)

Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.

Youtube channel.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#62 - 2016-11-26 13:41:32 UTC
Olmeca Gold wrote:
Querns wrote:
Kasia en Tilavine wrote:
I think everyone appreciates the effort to make the defender missiles and their skills actually do something. But as a dozen people have already said.... nobody bombs anymore. Bombs are so lacking in utility or efficacy, this is the gravestone of bombing as a whole. Unless this release is PAIRED with a whole new suite of bombs, "bombing" will be all but forgotten.


"No one" bombs any more because the entire game flies T3Cs, or other sig-tanking doctrines whose primary benefit is resistance to bombs. Providing counterplay other than training Strategic Cruisers opens up quite a bit of room for other ships to actually get used in nullsec.


This is plain wrong. Hurricanes, feroxes, etc. etc. are everywhere.


Tell that to DBRB, who can mysteriously never find any of those when he's online.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#63 - 2016-11-26 13:41:51 UTC
Querns wrote:
Kasia en Tilavine wrote:
I think everyone appreciates the effort to make the defender missiles and their skills actually do something. But as a dozen people have already said.... nobody bombs anymore. Bombs are so lacking in utility or efficacy, this is the gravestone of bombing as a whole. Unless this release is PAIRED with a whole new suite of bombs, "bombing" will be all but forgotten.


"No one" bombs any more because the entire game flies T3Cs, or other sig-tanking doctrines whose primary benefit is resistance to bombs. Providing counterplay other than training Strategic Cruisers opens up quite a bit of room for other ships to actually get used in nullsec.


completely wrong

the most common fleet doctrine in nullsec currently is an mwd shield hurricane
bother super easy to bomb

on an unrelated
i think you should have to actually get at least 1 killmail in the past 3 months to post on these forums because then theres a chance you might actually know what youre talking about
probably not tho at least in your case

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#64 - 2016-11-26 13:42:24 UTC
Olmeca Gold wrote:
Querns wrote:
Olmeca Gold wrote:

Well actually I wish DBRB was CSM or something, at least some bomber voice would be heard, and he is the only one FC from null that I know. And you will prolly be replaced by other null people, so that changes nothing from our perspective.


So vote, and be the change you wish to see.


Thats really idealist of you :)


It's how we get folks onto the CSM. It's not hard; you just vote, instead of not voting.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#65 - 2016-11-26 13:43:49 UTC
Capqu wrote:

on an unrelated
i think you should have to actually get at least 1 killmail in the past 3 months to post on these forums because then theres a chance you might actually know what youre talking about
probably not tho at least in your case


Ah, the killboard shame. How it burns!

Why the heck would I want to use Querns, the character, to get kills? He can't even fly a super.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#66 - 2016-11-26 13:44:18 UTC
i said unrelated note
nothing to do with u fine poster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#67 - 2016-11-26 13:45:59 UTC
Also, none of my characters have an API on zkb :ssh:

(i still don't really shoot mans with Querns though so zkb is probably pretty accurate)

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Samsara Toldya
Academy of Contradictory Behaviour
#68 - 2016-11-26 13:51:17 UTC
So... the "random" part.

Let's say there is a bombing wing with 11 bombers while there are 10 destroyers with d.i.c.k.s. cycling on grid.

Bomber 1 decloakes and launch a bomb.

10 d.i.c.k.s. get triggert by nearby bomb and shoot down the single bomb, causing 120 seconds cooldown on every d.i.c.k.

Remaining 10 bombers decloak and launch bombs.

Very random.

Or do all d.i.c.k.s. on grid communicate with each other and only a single defender missile is fired when there is only one bomb nearby?
Olmeca Gold
The Free Folk
#69 - 2016-11-26 13:52:20 UTC
Querns wrote:
Olmeca Gold wrote:
Querns wrote:
Olmeca Gold wrote:

Well actually I wish DBRB was CSM or something, at least some bomber voice would be heard, and he is the only one FC from null that I know. And you will prolly be replaced by other null people, so that changes nothing from our perspective.


So vote, and be the change you wish to see.


Thats really idealist of you :)


It's how we get folks onto the CSM. It's not hard; you just vote, instead of not voting.


I mean I just stated I didn't want more of nullsec in CSM even though I would have preferred if that will be the case at least bomber FCs being CSM. So im not voting for you.

The people I vote do not win. Because they cant get votes unless they have backing of organized nullsec groups. So its no remedy.

Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.

Youtube channel.
Olmeca Gold
The Free Folk
#70 - 2016-11-26 13:53:28 UTC
Samsara Toldya wrote:
So... the "random" part.

Let's say there is a bombing wing with 11 bombers while there are 10 destroyers with d.i.c.k.s. cycling on grid.

Bomber 1 decloakes and launch a bomb.

10 d.i.c.k.s. get triggert by nearby bomb and shoot down the single bomb, causing 120 seconds cooldown on every d.i.c.k.

Remaining 10 bombers decloak and launch bombs.

Very random.

Or do all d.i.c.k.s. on grid communicate with each other and only a single defender missile is fired when there is only one bomb nearby?


Depends on how they do things. But they at least have time and means to communicate, or even decide beforehand who launches when.

Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.

Youtube channel.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#71 - 2016-11-26 13:53:41 UTC
Olmeca Gold wrote:

The people I vote do not win. Because they cant get votes unless they have backing of organized nullsec groups. So its no remedy.


Then organize your own group? You don't even have to blue them or fly with them.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Spark Progenitori
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#72 - 2016-11-26 13:54:16 UTC
Does this mean you can buff bombers back up again? Having every dictor, t3d, and CD in a fleet with a defender launcher means you need an exceptional amount of bombers in multiple waves to make an impact.

Like, can we not have cloaked ships decloak each other again? This is a dramatic QOL item for running bomber fleets.

also some variety in bombs would be cool: velocity, range, aoe, maybe even other effects along the lines of void bombs (web, sensor strength, tracking disruption)
Olmeca Gold
The Free Folk
#73 - 2016-11-26 14:00:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Olmeca Gold
Querns wrote:
Olmeca Gold wrote:

The people I vote do not win. Because they cant get votes unless they have backing of organized nullsec groups. So its no remedy.


Then organize your own group? You don't even have to blue them or fly with them.


The problem is having to go through such an effort to make your voice heard. Because it is not like people who actually goes through this effort has a more valuable voice. I think posting here is enough effort to spend for such a goal, but definitely not organizing a campaign, as most do.

The entire CSM system is broken. CCP should rely on carefully reading these forums instead of elections with insignificant turnout to make people feel heard. I mean there is just 2 people who does not represent those nullsec fleets, and 4 people who is entirely independent from NC PL or Goons. Would it be surprising to keep hearing changes which primarily benefits organized big nullsec fleets?

Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.

Youtube channel.
Olmeca Gold
The Free Folk
#74 - 2016-11-26 14:03:24 UTC
Spark Progenitori wrote:
Does this mean you can buff bombers back up again? Having every dictor, t3d, and CD in a fleet with a defender launcher means you need an exceptional amount of bombers in multiple waves to make an impact.

Like, can we not have cloaked ships decloak each other again? This is a dramatic QOL item for running bomber fleets.

also some variety in bombs would be cool: velocity, range, aoe, maybe even other effects along the lines of void bombs (web, sensor strength, tracking disruption)


Cloaked ships do not decloak each other already. it was a proposed change but never went alive.

Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.

Youtube channel.
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#75 - 2016-11-26 14:17:54 UTC
Quote:
Bombs now have a Minimum Velocity of 1m/s that you must be traveling at before you can launch. This is to fix some issues that can happen when your velocity is 0, causing the bomb not to move and just explode on you.

This honestly makes me a little sad. It was a fun little quirk of bombs.

For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#76 - 2016-11-26 14:27:52 UTC
Olmeca Gold wrote:
Querns wrote:
Olmeca Gold wrote:

The people I vote do not win. Because they cant get votes unless they have backing of organized nullsec groups. So its no remedy.


Then organize your own group? You don't even have to blue them or fly with them.


The problem is having to go through such an effort to make your voice heard. Because it is not like people who actually goes through this effort has a more valuable voice. I think posting here is enough effort to spend for such a goal, but definitely not organizing a campaign, as most do.

The entire CSM system is broken. CCP should rely on carefully reading these forums instead of elections with insignificant turnout to make people feel heard. I mean there is just 2 people who does not represent those nullsec fleets, and 4 people who is entirely independent from NC PL or Goons. Would it be surprising to keep hearing changes which primarily benefits organized big nullsec fleets?


Nah. The CSM works because it allows for the representation of a much larger number of players. A forum post can be made by anyone.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#77 - 2016-11-26 14:36:31 UTC
Here's my question on this: will the new defender launchers only fire a Defender Missile at the start of their cycle, or will it be at any point during their active cycle? Because if it's at any point, then there's no reason not to keep them cycling constantly, but if it's only when they begin their cycle, then it actually adds a (small amount of) strategic element into the change.

If it's only at the beginning of the cycle, that isn't so bad, but if it's at any point during the cycle, that makes it pretty powerful.

If it is at any point, how about a bit of a drawback to using these, then (beyond a small amount of cap)? Destroyers are small ships and benefit from sig tanking (especially T3D's). While the Defender Launcher is cycling, give a +100% sig bloom (double the sig) since the launcher is actively scanning for incoming for bombs.

If it's only at the beginning of the cycle, though, then these aren't going to be nearly as detrimental to bombing as people are thinking (still a nerf, yes, but not a nerf with a crippling nerf).

For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
Malakai Asamov
Van Diemen's Demise
Northern Coalition.
#78 - 2016-11-26 14:37:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Malakai Asamov
Why would you not announce the details of this new feature at EDU in person?
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#79 - 2016-11-26 14:38:04 UTC
Malakai Asamov wrote:
Why would you not announce this new feature at EDU in person?


It was announced at Eve Vegas.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Malakai Asamov
Van Diemen's Demise
Northern Coalition.
#80 - 2016-11-26 14:39:20 UTC
Querns wrote:
Malakai Asamov wrote:
Why would you not announce this new feature at EDU in person?


It was announced at Eve Vegas.


Details? Better yet why would you not leak this on a pub crawl?