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[December] Defender Missiles

First post First post First post
Author
Martin Gregor
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#41 - 2016-11-26 12:31:07 UTC
I don't see any need for this in the current meta.
Sure, defender missiles are pretty useless right now, but making bombs useless just to make defender missiles useful is a very bad trade.
Lumpymayo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#42 - 2016-11-26 12:31:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Lumpymayo
I've been telling new players for a month now not to train bombers because of this nerf. The Counter play to the Counter Play against bombers is not to fly them anymore.

Welcome to Destroyers Online.
James Cowpet
Doomheim
#43 - 2016-11-26 12:39:19 UTC
Quote:
Its truly random.


The physicist in me is triggered.
Dejara Thoris
Alea Iacta Est Universal
Blades of Grass
#44 - 2016-11-26 12:44:54 UTC
Do missile guidance disruptors work on these new Defender missiles?
Loran Chelien
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2016-11-26 12:45:52 UTC
What if a defender missile is going after a bomb and that bomb gets blown up by another defender missile, does it retarget to another bomb?
Daktar Jaxs
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#46 - 2016-11-26 12:46:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Daktar Jaxs
this is a (slightly) dumb idea, i (slightly) hate you
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#47 - 2016-11-26 12:50:08 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends,

Coming with the December release, we're going to be releasing a feature we talked about at EVE Vegas 2016.


Defender Missile Skill
The skill, Defender Missiles, will no longer require Missile Launcher Operation. All alpha characters will be able to train this to Level 1. The skill will provide a 10% per level bonus to Defender Missile velocity. No other skills will effect Defender Missiles.


Defender Missiles
Defender Missiles will no longer shoot down missiles aimed at you. Instead they will launch at a random bomb (non-structure) within its flight range. A single defender missile will kill any bomb. These defender missiles can only be loaded into a new defender launcher (described below)
The Defender Missile I has a base range of 30km (45km at max skills), and a flight time of 3 seconds.
During the December patch downtime, all existing defender missiles (and their blueprints) will become the new Defender Missile I


Defender Launchers
The Defender Launcher I can only load Defender Missiles. It may only be fit to Destroyer class vessels (Destroyers, Interdictors, Command Destroyers and Tactical Destroyers). Once activated, it will scan local space for any bombs,and if it finds one within range, launch a defender missile to intercept it. If it doesn't find any bombs within range, it will still cycle.
The Defender Launcher I has a 120 second reactivation timer. It doesn't require a launcher hardpoint, and has low fitting requirements (10 cpu, 2 powergrid), but uses some capacitor (50gj) to activate. You can only fit one defender launcher.


Command Destroyers
Command Destroyers receive at 50% role bonus to decreasing the reactivation timer on Defender Launchers.


Bomb Changes
Bombs now have a Minimum Velocity of 1m/s that you must be traveling at before you can launch. This is to fix some issues that can happen when your velocity is 0, causing the bomb not to move and just explode on you.


You can checkout these changes (and more) on Sisi soon. We appreciate any feedback you have!

Cheers,
CCP Larrikin and Team Phenomenon


Excellent change, long overdue.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#48 - 2016-11-26 13:00:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Capqu
Malcanis wrote:


Excellent change, long overdue.


state ur reasoning

[read: make up some reasoning now u brown-nosing pizza ****]

oh wait i forgot u just blindly agree with anything that nerfs things u don't do nor ever will do
Olmeca Gold
The Free Folk
#49 - 2016-11-26 13:01:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Olmeca Gold
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends,

Coming with the December release, we're going to be releasing a feature we talked about at EVE Vegas 2016.


Defender Missile Skill
The skill, Defender Missiles, will no longer require Missile Launcher Operation. All alpha characters will be able to train this to Level 1. The skill will provide a 10% per level bonus to Defender Missile velocity. No other skills will effect Defender Missiles.


Defender Missiles
Defender Missiles will no longer shoot down missiles aimed at you. Instead they will launch at a random bomb (non-structure) within its flight range. A single defender missile will kill any bomb. These defender missiles can only be loaded into a new defender launcher (described below)
The Defender Missile I has a base range of 30km (45km at max skills), and a flight time of 3 seconds.
During the December patch downtime, all existing defender missiles (and their blueprints) will become the new Defender Missile I


Defender Launchers
The Defender Launcher I can only load Defender Missiles. It may only be fit to Destroyer class vessels (Destroyers, Interdictors, Command Destroyers and Tactical Destroyers). Once activated, it will scan local space for any bombs,and if it finds one within range, launch a defender missile to intercept it. If it doesn't find any bombs within range, it will still cycle.
The Defender Launcher I has a 120 second reactivation timer. It doesn't require a launcher hardpoint, and has low fitting requirements (10 cpu, 2 powergrid), but uses some capacitor (50gj) to activate. You can only fit one defender launcher.


Command Destroyers
Command Destroyers receive at 50% role bonus to decreasing the reactivation timer on Defender Launchers.


Bomb Changes
Bombs now have a Minimum Velocity of 1m/s that you must be traveling at before you can launch. This is to fix some issues that can happen when your velocity is 0, causing the bomb not to move and just explode on you.


You can checkout these changes (and more) on Sisi soon. We appreciate any feedback you have!

Cheers,
CCP Larrikin and Team Phenomenon



Hey CCP,

I just want to urge you to think about this question: when was the last time you have seen a bombing run evaporating an entire fleet? They instantly get posted on reddit, and you can see it happens perhaps once in a month, if one is to give an optimist estimate. There has been plenty of large fights during past months, but no proper bombing runs anyone has ever showed off. This means bombing is already close to be eliminated from meta.

Now I will say this and I will get downvoted to hell as every time, but someone has to state the truth. I believe you have all those nullsec people as CSM and overrepresent them in the feedback you keep hearing, and they keep telling you how there is no counterplay to bombing runs. But this is because they have rarely been behind one, or if they did, they don't represent bomber interests as much as interests of nullsec fleets. The main challenge of a bombing run today is setting it up, and finding a proper fleet to bomb. I would safely say more than %70 of the doctrines people are using are not bombable, because it simply takes too many waves for fleet to die, and they can simply warp off. Furthermore, it is not like that %70 does not represent a big variety of ships or it is because these ships are not bombable they get taken out more. If a doctrine is bombable it does not stop people from taking them out. Hurricanes or feroxes are all over nullsec fights, which shows being bombable does not significantly limit people to not to use those doctrines. So here is already one counterplay; warping off. Here is another: having 5-10 ceptors circling your fleet trying to decloak people. Here is another: Never standing still. These are all simple enough.

Thus there are already huge countermeasures to bombing, but they are all indirect, thus people are not aware the relation between these and countering bombruns. And then when they die to that bombrun they complain how it was impossible to evade or counterplay.

I get that these changes give alphas meaningful gameplay, while also giving people chance to directly respond to bombruns, which are in themselves interesting. BUT PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD do not push bombing out of the meta even more. It is one of the most fun, most interesting combat mechanics in Eve, such that you featured it before everything else in This is Eve. Now you are making it so that nobody takes out bombing fleets anymore.

If you really want anti-bomb missiles so much because they are an interesting mechanic, you definitely need to buff bombing to keep it inside meta. This can be done in the form of increasing the amount of bombs you can explode next to each other, enabling ewar bombs to be exploded next to damage bombs, introducing t2 bombs, or combinations of these, or further ideas that I didn't think of here.

Moral: You have to care about meta and balance as much as you have to care about giving people interesting gameplay. Else the interesting gameplay you are spending to code becomes redundant. E.g. if nobody brings bombs anymore defender missiles become redundant as well.

I hope you can hear other voices at times over those null people you keep listening to a lot.

(I FC bombers)

Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.

Youtube channel.

Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#50 - 2016-11-26 13:16:21 UTC
Olmeca Gold wrote:
Now I will say this and I will get downvoted to hell as every time


http://i.imgur.com/ujc3Y7s.png

Olmeca Gold wrote:

believe you have all those nullsec people as CSM and overrepresent them in the feedback you keep hearing


There's a remedy for this.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Olmeca Gold
The Free Folk
#51 - 2016-11-26 13:28:50 UTC
Querns wrote:
There's a remedy for this.


What if I want to just play a balanced game, and make my opinions about what makes it better heard, but and not make the game a huge deal in my real life? Or what if I don't care about achieving a huge organization, or just don't want to play the game in that way as a part of such an organization? Because this is how the majority who is not a part of NC/PC/Goons feels like.

Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.

Youtube channel.

Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#52 - 2016-11-26 13:33:42 UTC
Olmeca Gold wrote:
Querns wrote:
There's a remedy for this.


What if I want to just play a balanced game, and make my opinions about what makes it better heard, but and not make the game a huge deal in my real life? Or what if I don't care about achieving a huge organization, or just don't want to play the game in that way as a part of such an organization? Because this is how the majority who is not a part of NC/PC/Goons feels like.


The remedy is to vote, not to join a large power bloc.

I wouldn't worry too much, though. After our complete and total defeat in the Casino Wars, you probably won't see much of GSF on the CSM next year.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Kasia en Tilavine
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#53 - 2016-11-26 13:34:40 UTC
I think everyone appreciates the effort to make the defender missiles and their skills actually do something. But as a dozen people have already said.... nobody bombs anymore. Bombs are so lacking in utility or efficacy, this is the gravestone of bombing as a whole. Unless this release is PAIRED with a whole new suite of bombs, "bombing" will be all but forgotten.

Here is a list of crazy new utility to bombing that you could include:

High speed bombs that travel (and detonate) faster
High range bombs that go faster with the same travel time
Proximity bombs that detonate when a ship is within 50% of its explosion range
E-war bombs that produce a single use of effects like the supers aoe projections
Shrapnel bombs that do enormous damage to drones, but very little to ships
High radius bombs with lower damage and better application
persistent effect bombs that produce an aoe affect bubble that travels with it during its entire flight time

If you're going to let people shut down bombing runs, you need to make sure people want to bomb.
Olmeca Gold
The Free Folk
#54 - 2016-11-26 13:36:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Olmeca Gold
Querns wrote:
Olmeca Gold wrote:
Querns wrote:
There's a remedy for this.


What if I want to just play a balanced game, and make my opinions about what makes it better heard, but and not make the game a huge deal in my real life? Or what if I don't care about achieving a huge organization, or just don't want to play the game in that way as a part of such an organization? Because this is how the majority who is not a part of NC/PC/Goons feels like.


The remedy is to vote, not to join a large power bloc.

I wouldn't worry too much, though. After our complete and total defeat in the Casino Wars, you probably won't see much of GSF on the CSM next year.


Well actually I wish DBRB was CSM or something, at least some bomber voice would be heard, and he is the only one FC from null that I know. And you will prolly be replaced by other null people, so that changes nothing from our perspective.

Also I seriously believe you guys will make a comeback, you didnt lose much of your supercap power and ratting delve to death, no null alliance does that as far as much as I can see from dotlan. MB you do that before the elections.

Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.

Youtube channel.

Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#55 - 2016-11-26 13:36:20 UTC
This will be the fourth or fifth nerf to bombing runs in what, one and a half years? It seemed to me on CSM X that the signal radius, warp speed, bomb flight time, and input broadcasting nerfs succeeded in reducing abusive bombing runs.

As other users pointed out, it doesn't seem bombing runs are so oppressive that they need a fourth nerf. Perhaps this would be the time to consider rolling back one or two of the previous nerfs? Doing so will actively encourage more Defender Missile pilots anyway.

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT

Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#56 - 2016-11-26 13:36:29 UTC
Kasia en Tilavine wrote:
I think everyone appreciates the effort to make the defender missiles and their skills actually do something. But as a dozen people have already said.... nobody bombs anymore. Bombs are so lacking in utility or efficacy, this is the gravestone of bombing as a whole. Unless this release is PAIRED with a whole new suite of bombs, "bombing" will be all but forgotten.

Here is a list of crazy new utility to bombing that you could include:

...

If you're going to let people shut down bombing runs, you need to make sure people want to bomb.



you're a new person but i like you a lot thanks for the post very eloquent
[not sarcasm]
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#57 - 2016-11-26 13:36:47 UTC
Kasia en Tilavine wrote:
I think everyone appreciates the effort to make the defender missiles and their skills actually do something. But as a dozen people have already said.... nobody bombs anymore. Bombs are so lacking in utility or efficacy, this is the gravestone of bombing as a whole. Unless this release is PAIRED with a whole new suite of bombs, "bombing" will be all but forgotten.


"No one" bombs any more because the entire game flies T3Cs, or other sig-tanking doctrines whose primary benefit is resistance to bombs. Providing counterplay other than training Strategic Cruisers opens up quite a bit of room for other ships to actually get used in nullsec.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#58 - 2016-11-26 13:37:24 UTC
Olmeca Gold wrote:
Querns wrote:
Olmeca Gold wrote:
Querns wrote:
There's a remedy for this.


What if I want to just play a balanced game, and make my opinions about what makes it better heard, but and not make the game a huge deal in my real life? Or what if I don't care about achieving a huge organization, or just don't want to play the game in that way as a part of such an organization? Because this is how the majority who is not a part of NC/PC/Goons feels like.


The remedy is to vote, not to join a large power bloc.

I wouldn't worry too much, though. After our complete and total defeat in the Casino Wars, you probably won't see much of GSF on the CSM next year.


Well actually I wish DBRB was CSM or something, at least some bomber voice would be heard, and he is the only one FC from null that I know. And you will prolly be replaced by other null people, so that changes nothing from our perspective.


fear not the csm, reddit is the true battleground
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#59 - 2016-11-26 13:38:54 UTC
Olmeca Gold wrote:

Well actually I wish DBRB was CSM or something, at least some bomber voice would be heard, and he is the only one FC from null that I know. And you will prolly be replaced by other null people, so that changes nothing from our perspective.


So vote, and be the change you wish to see.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Olmeca Gold
The Free Folk
#60 - 2016-11-26 13:39:33 UTC
Querns wrote:
Kasia en Tilavine wrote:
I think everyone appreciates the effort to make the defender missiles and their skills actually do something. But as a dozen people have already said.... nobody bombs anymore. Bombs are so lacking in utility or efficacy, this is the gravestone of bombing as a whole. Unless this release is PAIRED with a whole new suite of bombs, "bombing" will be all but forgotten.


"No one" bombs any more because the entire game flies T3Cs, or other sig-tanking doctrines whose primary benefit is resistance to bombs. Providing counterplay other than training Strategic Cruisers opens up quite a bit of room for other ships to actually get used in nullsec.


This is plain wrong. Hurricanes, feroxes, etc. etc. are everywhere.

Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.

Youtube channel.