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[November] Orca Changes

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Bitter Fremlin
Heimatar Enhanced Fleet Industries
#321 - 2016-11-16 13:11:03 UTC
Note: For all those running Orca:Exhumer yield comparisons...

It would appear that max-boosted Exhumer laser yields are down some 20% since Ascension, e.g. a Hulk is down from 1920m3/cycle/laser to1650m3-ish. Whether that is a non-applied bonus bug or simply down to the Mining Foreman skill now giving boost duration buffs rather than the old-style yield buffs I'll leave for people smarter than me to determine.
Madame Black
Primus Inc.
#322 - 2016-11-16 13:45:21 UTC
laser cycle time has gone from max with boost of 69sec to 61sec with new expansion from what I can tell. Not sure if this make up for the yield lost but it might. doesnt matter they made being a boost for a mining fleet stupid now with boost cycle module being 60 seconds and the fleet duration for applied boost lasting over 2 mins with skills. You either micro manage or use twice as much ammo to do the same thing. I personally am done boosting and will only drone mine untill this is fix. There should be options to make it match or set your own cycle time for module to re apply boost. Yet another reason for me to leave eve after being away again.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#323 - 2016-11-16 15:29:09 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mark O'Helm wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Mark O'Helm wrote:

But there are fleets of 10 cats ganking skiffs in hs. So, who knows.


5 so far this month. Not exactly a large number given the amount of skiffs out there.

there is an 12 man NPC fleet in Everyshore. Their kills often does'nt show up on zkill.


What do NPC fleets have to do with anything?

This particular gang announce in local they are part of the "new order of new eden" (self validation is important to gankers lol)
Basically just a bunch of low rank/rent alts in npc corps.
More of a part time nuisance than anything.

I've been waiting for their Falcon bumper to go flashy by grabbing the wrong can again - One less Falcon trolling the ice belts for lone retrievers is acceptable.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#324 - 2016-11-16 17:23:03 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Mark O'Helm wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Mark O'Helm wrote:

But there are fleets of 10 cats ganking skiffs in hs. So, who knows.


5 so far this month. Not exactly a large number given the amount of skiffs out there.

there is an 12 man NPC fleet in Everyshore. Their kills often does'nt show up on zkill.


What do NPC fleets have to do with anything?

This particular gang announce in local they are part of the "new order of new eden" (self validation is important to gankers lol)
Basically just a bunch of low rank/rent alts in npc corps.
More of a part time nuisance than anything.

I've been waiting for their Falcon bumper to go flashy by grabbing the wrong can again - One less Falcon trolling the ice belts for lone retrievers is acceptable.


Thats code.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#325 - 2016-11-16 19:46:05 UTC
Madame Black wrote:
laser cycle time has gone from max with boost of 69sec to 61sec with new expansion from what I can tell. Not sure if this make up for the yield lost but it might. doesnt matter they made being a boost for a mining fleet stupid now with boost cycle module being 60 seconds and the fleet duration for applied boost lasting over 2 mins with skills. You either micro manage or use twice as much ammo to do the same thing. I personally am done boosting and will only drone mine untill this is fix. There should be options to make it match or set your own cycle time for module to re apply boost. Yet another reason for me to leave eve after being away again.
Why would you chose to not use bursts when the gains are far greater than the isk lost through fuel whether micromanaging them or not?
Xa Charante
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#326 - 2016-11-16 22:03:56 UTC
I think it's a bad idea not to allow Orca to self boost it's own drone yield. There is almost no incentive to boost others except to be helpful.
Xa Charante
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#327 - 2016-11-16 22:06:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Xa Charante
plz delete.
Spankerz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#328 - 2016-11-16 22:11:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Spankerz
Nice Job on the Orca CCP, thanks!


Also, those sweet sweet ganker tears mmm. Will fill few barrels so I can have some more in those cold winter evenings.
Keep em' flowing. Twisted
Xa Charante
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#329 - 2016-11-16 22:11:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Xa Charante
Xa Charante wrote:
Raven Ship wrote:
Raw Matters wrote:
Careby wrote:
As long as you fit it sensibly, it probably won't be ganked.

This.

I am not sure how you want to gank an Orca if the pilot has at least the basic skills for tanking. The live Orca has already ~200k EHP and with the patch it gets another boost. How is you plan to kill that in high-sec? Throw Maelstroms at it until there are so many Concord ships that the server crashes? You can't get it with suspect either, as mining drones do not react to loot stealing and besides: there is no loot to steal with a cargo hold that huge.

Now you can probably bump it away, but keep in mind that the drones have up to 60k range, plus another 24k for potential drone links. I'd say that someone who spends that much time bumping an Orca out of a belt really has serious problems. :D


Those suicide catalyst, can deal 600dps? cost few mil. Then concord reaction in 0.5 is 30sec? that gives 18k dps per catalyst, 12 should take current orca down.
Now add to that exploit part, that suiciders who have already -10ss, they move arround in pods, and there own alt orca launch catalyst for them in space, so that they can board them and have full time before concord reaction to shoot at your orca.
Now add to that fact, that goons are who will gain most from current rorqual changes, somewhere else someone counted how much ratting cariers they lost by last half year, 11, so it will be in there interest to cut down hsec supply, as they will oversupply market in no time with those numbers.



Most Orcas are pushing 450 k ehp, it has almost 500 k ehp with shield burst on. That is a lot more then 12 cats even before I overheat my hardeners which gives me 518 k ehp.
Xa Charante
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#330 - 2016-11-16 22:17:50 UTC
Je'ron wrote:
ROFL at those "OMG They are getting a 600k EHP, 800 DPS, 250k m3, 1600 m3/min, anchorable/unbumpable, mine fleet protecting, boosting Orca" whines.

You will need to fit a lot of modules and rigs on your Orca to get that: DC2, Reinforced Bulkheads, Transverse Bulkhead, Shield extenders, Shield Hardeners, Defense Field Extenders, DDAs, Drone Nav computers, Sebos, Expanded Cargohold, Cargohold Optimizers, Mining Augmentors, MWD, Higgs Anchor, Remote Reps + Augmentors, Remote Shield boosters, Mining Foreman Bursts, Shield Command Bursts.

Remind me again, how much PG & CPU and how many high, med, low and rig slots does the Orca have?


Yeah you cannot get 600 eph and 1600 m3/min. This is miss selling from CCP. Hell you can't even get 1600 m3/min without augmented drones and the new skill at V, and you would need all drone rigs meaning your tank is <400 k I believe.
Penance Toralen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#331 - 2016-11-16 22:38:33 UTC
Bitter Fremlin wrote:
Note: For all those running Orca:Exhumer yield comparisons...

It would appear that max-boosted Exhumer laser yields are down some 20% since Ascension, e.g. a Hulk is down from 1920m3/cycle/laser to1650m3-ish. Whether that is a non-applied bonus bug or simply down to the Mining Foreman skill now giving boost duration buffs rather than the old-style yield buffs I'll leave for people smarter than me to determine.


If you had a booster within the fleet with a Foreman Mind Link (and they were not in a Command Ship), that was 15% instead of the standard 10% increase in yield - 10/15 has been removed with the burst introduction. Might account for what you are seeing.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#332 - 2016-11-17 17:04:16 UTC
Spankerz wrote:
Nice Job on the Orca CCP, thanks!


Also, those sweet sweet ganker tears mmm. Will fill few barrels so I can have some more in those cold winter evenings.
Keep em' flowing. Twisted


Looks to me like the tears are from bears.
Ovigen Cympak
Singularity Border
#333 - 2016-11-19 15:19:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ovigen Cympak
Madame Black wrote:
laser cycle time has gone from max with boost of 69sec to 61sec with new expansion from what I can tell. Not sure if this make up for the yield lost but it might. doesnt matter they made being a boost for a mining fleet stupid now with boost cycle module being 60 seconds and the fleet duration for applied boost lasting over 2 mins with skills. You either micro manage or use twice as much ammo to do the same thing. I personally am done boosting and will only drone mine untill this is fix. There should be options to make it match or set your own cycle time for module to re apply boost. Yet another reason for me to leave eve after being away again.


+111!!!
With Command Burst Specialist and Mining Foreman Mindlink boost cycle module being 30 seconds and the fleet duration for applied boost lasting 2 mins with skills

There should be options to make it match or set your own cycle time for module to re apply boost +111!!!
Dieter Ottenbach
Ottenbach Industries LTD
#334 - 2016-11-20 02:51:51 UTC
Roll

Looks like I should invest in an egg-timer in order to do efficient Orca Mining boosting ........

What?
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#335 - 2016-11-20 13:23:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Dieter Ottenbach wrote:
Roll

Looks like I should invest in an egg-timer in order to do efficient Orca Mining boosting ........

What?



Or auto run the burst. Tack on the cost of the charges to mineral sales. Boosting others....tell them to give up some charges to get the boosts.

As has been mentioned before tack on new charges to your sales to cover "aggravation" costs of change. Grrr ccp you are making this harder for the isk. Well then up the isk. Crappy low priced selling miners your problem here...and well yeah, its your problem lol.

this is how large scale ship building works. Part of our price is simply charging for the pita of hauling runs. My time on the haul, costs like t2 warp rigs to speed things up (my orca runs one anyway)....this makes it into sales as 5K isk more here, 10k more isk there, etc.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#336 - 2016-11-20 18:31:09 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
Dieter Ottenbach wrote:
Roll

Looks like I should invest in an egg-timer in order to do efficient Orca Mining boosting ........

What?



Or auto run the burst. Tack on the cost of the charges to mineral sales. Boosting others....tell them to give up some charges to get the boosts.

As has been mentioned before tack on new charges to your sales to cover "aggravation" costs of change. Grrr ccp you are making this harder for the isk. Well then up the isk. Crappy low priced selling miners your problem here...and well yeah, its your problem lol.

this is how large scale ship building works. Part of our price is simply charging for the pita of hauling runs. My time on the haul, costs like t2 warp rigs to speed things up (my orca runs one anyway)....this makes it into sales as 5K isk more here, 10k more isk there, etc.
You know, that is all crap.

You like everyone else sell at market prices or just under, otherwise you would never sell anything.

Tack a bit on here and a bit there for this and that - Your fukin dreaming mate.
You can tack on all the extra's you want - and not sell your product (idiots)

NB; It is large scale builders that keep prices low - why do people who have no clue what they are talking about post on topics they have no idea about.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Yudachi POI
Temple of JIALAN
#337 - 2016-11-23 15:57:27 UTC
is anyone can tell me
can Command Burst modules effect on my mining drone?
Cade Windstalker
#338 - 2016-11-23 16:03:45 UTC
Yudachi POI wrote:
is anyone can tell me
can Command Burst modules effect on my mining drone?


Nope, Command Bursts don't provide a bonus to Mining Drone yield. You can see this by just looking at the bonuses on the Command Bursts.
cyennajewelz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#339 - 2016-11-24 17:46:04 UTC
orca needs about 10 more bandwidth so you can have 2 hobs or 1 hammer out while you ice mine.
other than that it works well ore mining with 4 miners and a hob ice mining is where it falls short.
Shiroe Kumamato
SoulPepper Expeditionary Force
#340 - 2016-11-26 14:50:44 UTC
cyennajewelz wrote:
orca needs about 10 more bandwidth so you can have 2 hobs or 1 hammer out while you ice mine.
other than that it works well ore mining with 4 miners and a hob ice mining is where it falls short.


I agree that ice mining is where it fails. Drop the bandwith needed by ice mining drones enough so the orca can field 2 of them and it would then be balanced to OK.

As a small scale (2 accounts) industrialist, the orca needs to be able to replace an exhumer in the ice belt, for me to use it.