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It kind of sounds like the problem here is your allies and their response time, not the new Rorqual.

If there's one thing that the earlier discussion of outside the box Rorqual uses highlighted it's that this thing is only about 1B sitting in the belt after insurance, and it has about 50% of the DPS of a Carrier, 80% of the rep potential of a FAX, and 90% of the local tank with the Core active.

If that doesn't buy your mining fleet enough time to get rescued, especially when you throw the PANIC button on there, then your alliance is doing a *really* poor job of supporting its mining ops *or* you're mining at the arse end of your Alliance's space from where all the PvP pilots hang out.

In either case that isn't a failure of the new design, it's a problem with the risk mitigation of your organization, and no Rorqual buff is going to fix that.

Also at the end of the day there should be some question as to whether or not something like this is worthwhile. If it's absolutely and unquestionably worthwhile then something has gone wrong and it's probably overpowered. Where things are right now though I think your group should be able to make use of this in most cases, and if they can't the gap between a sieged Rorqual and an unsieged one or an Orca isn't so vast that you'll need to pack up shop and go home.

This new rorqual is the worst thing CCP has done since years.
I'm really thinking to sell my 4 Hulk toons and close my paid account.
I'd like to understand why this patch should be so profitable for just 4 5 biggest alliance and why CCP has to forget the rest of the players!!
For me it's just unbelivable.
small & medium size allies seems to be not so important for CCP!!
Then they cry if they loose online players....

CCP: do you want more active players? start with avoiding camper AFK cloacked ship..
It's a shame not able to play cause a player decide to be logged cloacked and AFK in your system.

do not say more isk more risk, cause you really know that If I made 10b a day mining with a rorqual but I loose 2 rorqual, I get a positive balance of 4b but my corp will not like too much the new killboard and I will be kicked off.
So people who says' more isk more risk' just ignore ns living.

Ok, you want rorqual to be on grid (and against now, means 90% of player will lose 90% of their actaul boost time) but having the rorqual stopped in belt is so stupid.
I just imagine how many bomber squad will hit rorqual just when panic button will ends or how many bubble you could find all around you.
and then? how to save your rorqual?

Do not tell me 'your ally has all times needed to create a defense fleet' cause this idea worth just for big allies who has pvp fleet of 100 200 people.
This patch means that all allies without a big pvp fleet, couldn't use Rorqual.
I'm so disappointed, this is not acceptable.
Strong will become strongest, weak will become weakest

These Rorqual changes actually do a pretty good job of mitigating the potential impact of AFK cloakies. A mining fleet can't quite take on a cap drop, but it can probably defend from a Black Ops drop at least enough to make the droppers think twice about whether or not they want to engage.



This seems like more of a problem with your Alliance than with the Rorqual. Not only are they apparently not defending their mining ops, but they're getting angry when unsupported mining Ops lose ships.

That's a pretty good way to lose all of your industrialists.

If they really need a green killboard then go make "Government Industries" or something, throw all the miners in there, and presto, instant Killboard cleaning for the corp.



Some quick math says that you would need around 100 bombers to kill a Rorqual with a bombing run. Even with, say, 50 or so (so, half-ish with Bombs, the rest with Torps) you're going to have issues, and that assumes that the Rorqual doesn't just have a couple of smart-bombs fitted to nuke your bombs.

At the end of the day though that's called getting out played, though honestly if you failed to notice the ~50 people sat in local for 7 minutes and couldn't call for help you kinda deserve it.



If you don't have the people to defend your stuff then of course your risk goes up. This is Null, what do you expect?

Seriously though, you're going to have around 10 minutes to scramble something to help out the miners. That's a *lot* of time, especially with Cynos and Jump Bridges. If your Alliance can't manage to save a ship that has literally been sitting *invulnerable* then I'm not sure what to tell you. I certainly don't think you would be happy with any at all reasonably balanced version of a Rorqual that CCP might possibly present.

I am entirely confused by the Rorqual's drone bandwidth in relation to the new excavator drones.

Rorqual has a total of 125 Mbit/sec bandwidth.

Excavator drones, by all accounts, need 200Mbit/sec bandwidth.

So unless the currently numbers for excavator drones are completely made up I don't see that working.

Some more real numbers on these things would be nice.

Just checked the latest build on SISI and the numbers make sense now. Excavators need 25Mbit/sec and now move at a speed of 200m/s. So you can use 5 of them and they take 50 seconds to move to a roid 10km away. On average this will lower the projected 18400m3 per minute quite substantially (it's more in the area of 3000 - 6000m3 per minute if you factor in travel time) but that's still more than triple what a boosted Hulk can pull in.

So overall I'm quite happy. Looks good!

The 18400 number is a product of someone not having access to a functional calculator. That number was provided when excavators still had 400m3/60s base, which put them at 18000 with all skills level 5 on a t2 indy core rorqual, and without the effect of mining drone specialization, which is confirmed to affect excavators.

With the new mining volume of 325m3/90s on the excavator, I can't find any combination that comes anywhere close to 18000. As for travel time, you are forgetting to factor in drone navigation skills, which put the excavators to 278m/s, the industrial core which grants up to 30% increase to speed, putting your travel time to a 10km roid at 55 seconds, round trip, not 50seconds one way.

Let's suppose for a moment that the rorq does actually have 18400m3/60s, that'd put you at 55seconds flight time, 60sec yield time, and 5 seconds of mining drones being mining drones (sitting still and doing nothing), we're looking at 9200m3/minute on a 10km roid, the equalization point with a hulk is actually quite a bit further out.,

Current test server stats are:

The excavator ice harvesting drone has a base velocity of 100m/s and an activation time of 225s and a volume of 1km3.

The excavator mining drone has a base velocity of 200m/s, an activation time of 90s and the base mining volume is 325m3.

Both take 25mb and seem to cost about 100m worth of material each with un-researched BPs, not counting the cost of the BP.

Can we please have clarification on this: will the Rorqual be able to enter Thera or will it be denied by a "no capital" rule?

Your math feels a bit off too...
325(2/3)=216.67m3/min
*5 drones=1083.35m3/min
*your 4.33 multiplier=4690.91m3/min
*6=28145.46m3/min which is way above the projected theoretical max yield of 18400m3/min, which doesn't make sense since they changed the drones to take longer to mine less. I'm not unhappy about that amount, but it seems too high.

Yeah, I think they've been on the server for quite a bit, but I can't remember if they've changed at all or are just place holders.

They changed. Up until a couple days ago, ore was 400m3/60s/100m/s. Now they're 325m3/90s/200m/s.

Amusingly enough, CCP also made a typo on the stats on the mining drone specialization skillbook, so now a bunch of spergs on reddit are convinced that their excavators are going to move at approx. 2.1km/s without nav comps, despite it being a very obvious typo.




And yet not the same. Would love to have a member of CCP show where the 18,400 came from lol