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[November] Rorqual Changes

First post First post First post
Author
Cade Windstalker
#341 - 2016-10-21 02:52:03 UTC
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
How much heavy water does the PANIC button consume?


None, it completely burns the module out after one use.
Doggy Dogwoofwoof
The Blind Spot
#342 - 2016-10-21 06:34:22 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
And yet not the same. Would love to have a member of CCP show where the 18,400 came from lol

CCP Math, The only thing worse than CCP Rounding
Bobb Bobbington
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#343 - 2016-10-21 10:54:32 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
How much heavy water does the PANIC button consume?


None, it completely burns the module out after one use.


It says it uses heavy water as fuel though, how much heavy fuel does it consume when you click the button, even if you only do it once?

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.

Cade Windstalker
#344 - 2016-10-21 14:43:41 UTC
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
How much heavy water does the PANIC button consume?


None, it completely burns the module out after one use.


It says it uses heavy water as fuel though, how much heavy fuel does it consume when you click the button, even if you only do it once?


There is nothing anywhere in the original post or in the dev blog that says the PANIC module uses Heavy Water or fuel of any sort. The Industrial Core uses fuel, but the PANIC module does not.
Edek Hawker
POS Party
Ember Sands
#345 - 2016-10-21 16:08:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Edek Hawker
I am a miner and industrialist. I've always made my "living" in Eve from mining first and foremost. I do not multibox mine I run 2 accounts only (for extra research slots to those who are curious).
Now that being said
The only thing I do not like about the proposed changes to the rorqual is the panic button preventing warping for the barges.
In the PvP world miners have always been easy meat to be destroyed because we are not combat pilots in combat ships.
Therefore our main defense against aggression has always been to escape extend and run. As a miner in a mining ship you will not win a fight so you run it is that simple. Let a 3 bil investment plus time and skills be worth it let the foreman protect his miners allowing them to escape and mine another day without a ship lost. Mining is pretty much the worst isk per hr in the game this has been stated over and over allowing miners to save their ships and mine another day would be a great help in balancing the lack of income from mining. It is my opinion that combat pilots will not care about saving mining fleets because of the general mentality against miners in general. So the invulnerable panic button to allow a defense fleet time to save you makes no sense to me. Nobody is coming to save you nobody cares about saving you they are to busy laughing at you for being stupid enough to mine in the first place (stating a pvp pilot perspective here... obviously) and get killed.
Let a miner protect himself by making escape possible we are independent pilots that would prefer that option.
My .02
A new eden miner
Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#346 - 2016-10-21 19:20:29 UTC
Edek Hawker wrote:
I am a miner and industrialist. I've always made my "living" in Eve from mining first and foremost. I do not multibox mine I run 2 accounts only (for extra research slots to those who are curious).
Now that being said
The only thing I do not like about the proposed changes to the rorqual is the panic button preventing warping for the barges.
In the PvP world miners have always been easy meat to be destroyed because we are not combat pilots in combat ships.
Therefore our main defense against aggression has always been to escape extend and run. As a miner in a mining ship you will not win a fight so you run it is that simple. Let a 3 bil investment plus time and skills be worth it let the foreman protect his miners allowing them to escape and mine another day without a ship lost. Mining is pretty much the worst isk per hr in the game this has been stated over and over allowing miners to save their ships and mine another day would be a great help in balancing the lack of income from mining. It is my opinion that combat pilots will not care about saving mining fleets because of the general mentality against miners in general. So the invulnerable panic button to allow a defense fleet time to save you makes no sense to me. Nobody is coming to save you nobody cares about saving you they are to busy laughing at you for being stupid enough to mine in the first place (stating a pvp pilot perspective here... obviously) and get killed.
Let a miner protect himself by making escape possible we are independent pilots that would prefer that option.
My .02
A new eden miner

It won't matter since if you're tackled you can't warp out and as far as I can tell the PANIC doesn't affect target locks, so they'll just hold you down anyway. Just make sure the Rorqual pilot PANICs after everyone who can escape has escaped.

Also, join a better corp. If your barge is tackled in Horde standing fleet will do their best to clobber the attacker. Not saying join Horde, but there must be some corps out there that will do more than laugh at their miners when they die.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Elenahina
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#347 - 2016-10-21 19:38:57 UTC
Dark Lord Trump wrote:


Also, join a better corp. If your barge is tackled in Horde standing fleet will do their best to clobber the attacker. Not saying join Horde, but there must be some corps out there that will do more than laugh at their miners when they die.


And those are the corps that will reap the rewards of putting themselves at greater risk, which is how it should be.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Gevlin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#348 - 2016-10-21 21:02:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Gevlin
Will the panic module allow the miners to switch ships or switch modules. I can see a fleet of hulks get jump, panic button and the hulks switch into tackle, Ewar and DPS skiffs. Or is this a viable tactic?

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships

Bobb Bobbington
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#349 - 2016-10-21 21:06:33 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
How much heavy water does the PANIC button consume?


None, it completely burns the module out after one use.


It says it uses heavy water as fuel though, how much heavy fuel does it consume when you click the button, even if you only do it once?


There is nothing anywhere in the original post or in the dev blog that says the PANIC module uses Heavy Water or fuel of any sort. The Industrial Core uses fuel, but the PANIC module does not.


and yet I'm afraid it says it consumes heavy water on sisi

http://imgur.com/9Su2dZe

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.

Arronicus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#350 - 2016-10-22 01:00:38 UTC
Gevlin wrote:
Will the panic module allow the miners to switch ships or switch modules. I can see a fleet of hulks get jump, panic button and the hulks switch into tackle, Ewar and DPS skiffs. Or is this a viable tactic?


Not really, when considering the fact that under panic, you can deal no damage at all, so tackle and ewar skiffs? Sure. dps, nope. That said, if you're popping your panic button the moment hostiles enter system, instead of just warping the hulks off, you're going to lose that rorqual a LOT sooner than if you use the button strategically.

Think of the panic button like a paladin bubble, the old pally bubble. Did you pop it the moment you entered a fight? Not unless you were a complete noob. You used it as an ace in the hole when you were about to die, and fully healed up, and furthermore, took steps to try to avoid ending up in that situation in the first place. Similarly with the panic module, decent rorqual pilots will not rely on it, they will rely on intel, on their tank, and on their mining barges getting the heck out before hostiles even land on grid. Then they'll rely on their damage drones to kill hostiles, saving panic for the moment once they're almost into armor.
Cade Windstalker
#351 - 2016-10-22 02:06:51 UTC
Gevlin wrote:
Will the panic module allow the miners to switch ships or switch modules. I can see a fleet of hulks get jump, panic button and the hulks switch into tackle, Ewar and DPS skiffs. Or is this a viable tactic?


Yup, the PANIC effect is on the ship hull and there's nothing stopping you from refitting from the Rorqual, already confirmed earlier in the thread.

Edek Hawker wrote:
I am a miner and industrialist. I've always made my "living" in Eve from mining first and foremost. I do not multibox mine I run 2 accounts only (for extra research slots to those who are curious).
Now that being said
The only thing I do not like about the proposed changes to the rorqual is the panic button preventing warping for the barges.
In the PvP world miners have always been easy meat to be destroyed because we are not combat pilots in combat ships.
Therefore our main defense against aggression has always been to escape extend and run. As a miner in a mining ship you will not win a fight so you run it is that simple. Let a 3 bil investment plus time and skills be worth it let the foreman protect his miners allowing them to escape and mine another day without a ship lost. Mining is pretty much the worst isk per hr in the game this has been stated over and over allowing miners to save their ships and mine another day would be a great help in balancing the lack of income from mining. It is my opinion that combat pilots will not care about saving mining fleets because of the general mentality against miners in general. So the invulnerable panic button to allow a defense fleet time to save you makes no sense to me. Nobody is coming to save you nobody cares about saving you they are to busy laughing at you for being stupid enough to mine in the first place (stating a pvp pilot perspective here... obviously) and get killed.
Let a miner protect himself by making escape possible we are independent pilots that would prefer that option.
My .02
A new eden miner


If you could warp off like that it would be way too powerful. If you wish to warp off then just use the Rorqual's RR instead of immediately hitting the PANIC button.

Other than that I'm echoing those saying join a better corp that protects its miners (or at least does a decent job using them as bait).

Bobb Bobbington wrote:
and yet I'm afraid it says it consumes heavy water on sisi

http://imgur.com/9Su2dZe


Pretty sure that's still Work in Progress and may not reflect the final product. I'm going with it doesn't take fuel until there's some word otherwise or we at least have a final version on SiSi.
FT Cold
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#352 - 2016-10-24 05:50:19 UTC
For those who are interested, drone mining rigs apparently have a new attribute as a bonus to rate of fire. There isn't any other description, but my guess would be that it applies to the new ice mining drones.
Arronicus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#353 - 2016-10-24 11:35:44 UTC
FT Cold wrote:
For those who are interested, drone mining rigs apparently have a new attribute as a bonus to rate of fire. There isn't any other description, but my guess would be that it applies to the new ice mining drones.


Should really be to cycle time.

Also, for anyone who is wondering, most of the relevant stuff is now up on the test server (Except t2 indy cores don't work, and there's no way to get excavator drones, plus the rorq ship bonuses are wrong)

Panic button is now reusable, and doesn't burn out, but has a 10m cooldown
FT Cold
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#354 - 2016-10-24 22:12:57 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
FT Cold wrote:
For those who are interested, drone mining rigs apparently have a new attribute as a bonus to rate of fire. There isn't any other description, but my guess would be that it applies to the new ice mining drones.


Should really be to cycle time.

Also, for anyone who is wondering, most of the relevant stuff is now up on the test server (Except t2 indy cores don't work, and there's no way to get excavator drones, plus the rorq ship bonuses are wrong)

Panic button is now reusable, and doesn't burn out, but has a 10m cooldown


Probably just an oversight on the part of whoever wrote the new attributes for the module. I'll give it a test soon to see if it does anything. Also, excavator drones and skillbooks are seeded in syndicate space, and rorqual attributes have been updated. Not sure about the t2 industrial core though, no skill injectors left to use :(.
Kenneth Fritz
DND Industries
#355 - 2016-10-25 14:13:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth Fritz
My corp and I were on the test server last night for about 3-4 hrs yesterday. We are heavy indy, and as such such the rorqual is our life blood. I don't know if it's been fixed but the only thing the panic button did was make stuff immune to damage. Otherwise it was broken in such a way that we could atill do all the things it said we couldn't to include light a cyno with the rorqual and jumping the roqual out. Also the module wouldn't burn out.

Now on to my two bits on the improved rorqual:

The tankability of the rorqual is finally in lone with the other captials. As such we are very happy. A saiged rorqual can now defend itself against all but a dedicated effort to brong one down. The fear of losing one to a random roam of destroyers, cruiser, or frigates is gone. Battleships in fair enough numbrs and the right fit could give one a run for its money with a chance of bringing it down but not without heavy losses. And yes I'm include blops in that assessment. Carriers will be the bane of these new rorquals. Dreads might need some help but that will depend heavily on each ships respective fit and weather the rorqual is seiged or not.

As far as mining is concerned I have zero complaints and I think CCP hit the nail on the head like a vertean carpenter. I'm not pandering here, I mean CCP have jacked up stuff in the past, sometimes royally. But not this time.

PANIC module needs fix on test server (maby it has alrwady) before I can weigh in on it for a fair assessment.

Who's your end of the world buddy?

Sergeant L
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#356 - 2016-10-25 14:41:47 UTC
A few changes I would like to suggest. Since the Rorqual by far is not cheap we should make it possible for it to survive at least given the risk vs isk on mining. With the following:
1. Make the industrial core timer only 1 minute just like the marauders. Keep thee same consumption that there is now just divide it accordingly.
2. Either make the ore from the new mining drones instantly appear at the end of the cycle in the ore hold or make all the ore coming from the drones already compressed. The movement of the drones to the rorqual to dump is time consuming and lowers the mining yield for the isk/hr.

Other than that I think your spot on. Sitting for 5 min just because its old code doesn't make sense, change it and let the miners have a bit of a chance to get out and live another day for once.

Nice work cant wait for the 8th of November. Big smile
Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#357 - 2016-10-25 15:00:00 UTC
Sergeant L wrote:
A few changes I would like to suggest. Since the Rorqual by far is not cheap we should make it possible for it to survive at least given the risk vs isk on mining. With the following:
1. Make the industrial core timer only 1 minute just like the marauders. Keep thee same consumption that there is now just divide it accordingly.
2. Either make the ore from the new mining drones instantly appear at the end of the cycle in the ore hold or make all the ore coming from the drones already compressed. The movement of the drones to the rorqual to dump is time consuming and lowers the mining yield for the isk/hr.

Other than that I think your spot on. Sitting for 5 min just because its old code doesn't make sense, change it and let the miners have a bit of a chance to get out and live another day for once.

Nice work cant wait for the 8th of November. Big smile

You already can make like 300M isk/hour while tanking 50k DPS, dealing 2k DPS, and becoming invulnerable on command. What more do you want? A Rorqual mining away in a cynojammed system would be almost impossible to kill with a 1 min siege timer. Anything capable of killing it won't be able to get there before it jumps out.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Quriel Arjar
Doomheim
#358 - 2016-10-25 15:29:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Quriel Arjar
Could anyone check, if it's possible to get in warp in one MWD cycle? I did some testing and, as it turns out, with Capital Ships III and 3 Inertia Stabilisers in low slots one 500MN MWD II cycle is not enough. Rorqual still needs to align for 3-5 seconds after MWD ran it's cycle and then, finally, enter warp. For whatever reason this works almost perfectly in today's Rorqual with only two, not three, inertial stabs fitted and the same MWD.

I may be doing something wrong, hence I am asking for a little help here.
Kenneth Fritz
DND Industries
#359 - 2016-10-25 15:56:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth Fritz
Quriel Arjar wrote:
Could anyone check, if it's possible to get in warp in one MWD cycle? I did some testing and, as it turns out, with Capital Ships III and 3 Inertia Stabilisers in low slots one 500MN MWD II cycle is not enough. Rorqual still needs to align for 3-5 seconds after MWD ran it's cycle and then, finally, enter warp. For whatever reason this works almost perfectly in today's Rorqual with only two, not three, inertial stabs fitted and the same MWD.

I may be doing something wrong, hence I am asking for a little help here.


Use 500mn mwd. Let it cycle only once either by turning it off or disabling the auto-repeat. Either way you'll see sideways warps that would make a superstructure cry uncle. I also don't think you need inertials for this trick either.

Who's your end of the world buddy?

Gaia Albosa
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#360 - 2016-10-25 16:23:27 UTC
New Rorqual changes seem awesome for big Alliances and Corporations with the numbers, but not so much for the many smaller (or normal sized) corporations in new Eden. It's a bit of a wind up giving the Rorqual the ability to mine as much as 5 exhumers at the press of a button, when it would leave way to many fleets totally screwed when being hot dropped. I understand risk vs reward but there seems to be a lot of agreement out there on this. Only thing I can think of is to go silly and have enough Exhumers out there bringing in massive amounts of ISK to pay for all the ganks. I'd say the pirates of New Eden are going to be having a field day with all this...