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Clone States UI Changes

First post
Author
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#101 - 2016-10-16 19:02:51 UTC
Is it just me or is the white text in the headers and skill bars with certain color settings really hard to read? This is SOE, for instance. Same goes for Amarr II.

UI Improvement Collective

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Rhyx Mormarteno
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2016-10-17 09:59:39 UTC
New UI is bad, to bright color takes too long to navigate.
Would prefere to have just for Clone state Icon on character sheet
Everything other new added to to diffrent window right now it takes so much more time to navigate.
SKills you cant use should be shown in Red( squares to and skills you got in white/green and skills you can train up in Gray/white only orange and white isnt hinting on first glance could be my personal thing.

Old skill que been much better for finding skill you are looking for skill to add to list, current one takes longer than adding from item you want to train for(from info tab of module/ship).

Not having trained any minmatar related skills cant use galente as alpha even if i have all skills alpha as galente could use
expecting it to be intended but beeing able to choose with one i will be locked by selecting minmatar/gallente before going to alpha and as minmatar race being locked to one i select ( gallente) beeing able use skill set for galente and not having to wait for those could be more friendly for those who would want to return but dont have their racial skills but for other faction.

Personaly dont like alphas having ability drain omega only skills or any skill with exctractor.

Omega logged off with ship turning to alpha can use ship its in modules or just fly it and dock ?
If it can flly and use modules you could have free freighter pilot that cant dock but unloads at poses or other structures.
If can use skills you will get alpha boosters. Need to check this at evening.



TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#103 - 2016-10-17 22:03:20 UTC
Legion40k wrote:
I'm really sorry but this new character sheet just isn't providing basic information we need in order to make informed choices about what to train.


We're missing:-
- Current total SP invested in a selected skill
- What rank the skill is

-- screenshot from Sisi
-- compared to EveMon EveMon


I gotta agree with this. I've never messed with injectors and extractors before, but started looking into them just tonight. Total amount of SP invested in skill is a really important number that needs to be visible at a glance. It makes calculating stuff for skill extraction much much easier.

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Mr Beardsley
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#104 - 2016-10-18 06:23:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Beardsley
New character/skill sheet is awful - the current one is much easier to read and use. Please don't implement this giant waste of space, or if you do, at least give us the option to re-enable the old one. I seriously would not be able to play EVE if I was handicapped by this cumbersome new eyesore.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#105 - 2016-10-18 09:21:20 UTC
Mr Beardsley wrote:
New character/skill sheet is awful - the current one is much easier to read and use. Please don't implement this giant waste of space, or if you do, at least give us the option to re-enable the old one. I seriously would not be able to play EVE if I was handicapped by this cumbersome new eyesore.


Guess you need to start looking for a new game to play then.

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Beta Maoye
#106 - 2016-10-19 08:54:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Beta Maoye
Some of the functionalities of current UI is missiong.

  • A separate window for training queue.
  • The training time multiplier of a skill.
  • The figures of trained skill point/total skill point.

The above information is important for player to make decision on priorities of skill queue, especially in a long queue, and how many injectors are required to complete a skill.

Actually I think the current UI is instinctive and easy to navigate. Can you just emulate the current UI and add the new functionalities you need to it?
Xynthiar
OnlyFleets.
#107 - 2016-10-19 12:17:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Xynthiar
Something the old character sheet was missing that I think the new one would do well with is showing a temporary "Loading..." label wherever the UI is awaiting data.

For instance, the first time you open the Security Status or Combat Log tabs of your character sheet, they will be completely blank, like so: http://i.imgur.com/wdOT2Ek.png

It can remain blank for several seconds. A player who isn't used to this would probably just assume they don't have any entries, and navigate away by the time it takes it to load, as there is no indication that something is indeed loading.

EDIT: Also, it would be great if I could see my total (omega) skillpoints as an alpha. Currently it's just showing me my alpha skillpoints. Maybe add it to like a hover tooltip if you put your mouse over the SP count?
MechaLynx
#108 - 2016-10-19 20:57:21 UTC
Xynthiar wrote:

EDIT: Also, it would be great if I could see my total (omega) skillpoints as an alpha. Currently it's just showing me my alpha skillpoints. Maybe add it to like a hover tooltip if you put your mouse over the SP count?


This.

Also, give us a save button for the skill queue. Just because we're changing the skills around doesn't mean we want to commit to the new queue. Currently we can cancel changes or not save them, but without such functionality, with a 50-skill long queue, if you mess around a bit you could end up making a mistake and messing up the skill plan. No explicit save or undo functionality discourages experimentation, which would make people less inclined to check their skill queues all the time.

And hey, from the fact that you still have that injector icon there, nagging away, I'm guessing you _want_ people to check their skill queues and get an appetite for more, so no explicit save + warning functionality goes against your actual goal. Personally I'd rather have no skill injector icon there and no auto-saving of the queue - either have both or neither.

If it's about avoiding the case where people forget to update their queue, don't worry about it - you already have the game notify players when a skill queue is empty or inactive. If it's about people accidentally _not_ saving their new queue, just have like a single undo, saved on the client as a restorable draft queue. As complicated as the latter may sound, it'll get far less in the way of the average player than this approach will.

I'm guessing an extra reason to have the injector icon, besides misguided marketing practices, is to provide a quick and easy way to check how much SP one will provide for the current character, as well as provide an easy link to the market. However, this is completely unnecessary - players who have played too little to know that injectors don't always provide 500k SP will also likely be below 5mil SP to begin with (or be so rich it won't matter that much). If they need to buy them, they'll just go to Jita or be told to go to Jita after they ask for the price. It's something a player only needs to learn once, not something you need in your skill queue every time.
Hallvardr
#109 - 2016-10-20 15:01:02 UTC
Here we go again, change simply for the sake of change. We didn't learn our lesson with the Neocom icon screw up. Oh well.
Drago Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#110 - 2016-10-21 22:56:22 UTC
Firstly, my apologies for a) repeating what some others have already said and b) not quoting them. Never posted on the forums before...

Had a little bit of a tinker about with the new char sheet - overall, I don't care for it. Here's why (in case you didn't see the other posts already on these points):

1. Skill Categories

There doesn't seem to be any logical ordering of these, which is irritating.

2. Skills

Perhaps I'm just not finding the appropriate option(s), but I can't seem to find anyway of seeing how many SP I have in a particular skill and/or how many are required for the next tier. Sure, I can see that I've got Super Awesome Skillz III but I'd like to be able to see how many SP I need for IV, not just how long it's going to take me.

3. Skill Queue

I have several issues with this. First, the design of it is, frankly, terrible. It shouldn't be permanently attached to the bottom of the char sheet, this limits my view of the queue. Secondly, the ability to modify the contents/order of the queue without it automatically assuming you want to commit the changes needs putting back.

4. Hover-Over Tooltips

On the one hand, having a hover-over popup for skill books in my inventory with a big blue "Inject Skill" button or having the same but with "Add to Queue" in the char sheet is not a bad idea to my mind. What's not great about them is they either don't stay around long enough, or they're too easily interfered with by other windows in the background. Trying to click the "Add to Queue" button on a skill when the popup was floating over the Fitting window (as an example) just meant that I constantly missed the button and instead clicked on the Fitting window.

5. My Huge-ass Face

Now, I don't really have that much of a problem with my face (you may disagree!) but I don't really want a sizable banner at the top of the char sheet with my head staring at me. Any chance I can minimise that?


I've not really played around with it from the perspective of an Alpha clone; yet...
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#111 - 2016-10-21 23:01:00 UTC
Drago Hakuli wrote:
Firstly, my apologies for a) repeating what some others have already said and b) not quoting them. Never posted on the forums before...

Had a little bit of a tinker about with the new char sheet - overall, I don't care for it. Here's why (in case you didn't see the other posts already on these points):

1. Skill Categories

There doesn't seem to be any logical ordering of these, which is irritating.

2. Skills

Perhaps I'm just not finding the appropriate option(s), but I can't seem to find anyway of seeing how many SP I have in a particular skill and/or how many are required for the next tier. Sure, I can see that I've got Super Awesome Skillz III but I'd like to be able to see how many SP I need for IV, not just how long it's going to take me.

3. Skill Queue

I have several issues with this. First, the design of it is, frankly, terrible. It shouldn't be permanently attached to the bottom of the char sheet, this limits my view of the queue. Secondly, the ability to modify the contents/order of the queue without it automatically assuming you want to commit the changes needs putting back.

4. Hover-Over Tooltips

On the one hand, having a hover-over popup for skill books in my inventory with a big blue "Inject Skill" button or having the same but with "Add to Queue" in the char sheet is not a bad idea to my mind. What's not great about them is they either don't stay around long enough, or they're too easily interfered with by other windows in the background. Trying to click the "Add to Queue" button on a skill when the popup was floating over the Fitting window (as an example) just meant that I constantly missed the button and instead clicked on the Fitting window.

5. My Huge-ass Face

Now, I don't really have that much of a problem with my face (you may disagree!) but I don't really want a sizable banner at the top of the char sheet with my head staring at me. Any chance I can minimise that?


I've not really played around with it from the perspective of an Alpha clone; yet...


Number 5 is doable upper right corner of the render.

Tool tips are better but I guess they still need work Might be better to have a add to Queue button to the left of the skill name.

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See you around the universe.

Drago Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#112 - 2016-10-22 12:35:06 UTC
Salpun wrote:


Number 5 is doable upper right corner of the render.

Tool tips are better but I guess they still need work Might be better to have a add to Queue button to the left of the skill name.


Ah! Thank you, not sure quite how I missed that!
MechaLynx
#113 - 2016-10-22 13:00:05 UTC
Checking the window again on SiSi now - huge improvements, props.

The good:

  • Skill category listing is much improved. It's compact, the tool-tips are placed properly and are practical to use, all things considered.
  • Placing the queue's time bar on top of the queue was a good idea. Previously it was slightly uncomfortable to have to visually line up the skill durations because the currently training skill was farthest away from the bar, instead of closest. +1 and (I have to say it) an example of something that worked fine already and didn't need fixing (although I can see a case for experimentation).
  • Rounding up skill training times in the category view. No need to see seconds here, good one.
  • Getting rid of the confusing colors for skill ranks. This is _much_ clearer now and straightforward (and again, identical to how it is already)
  • Collapsing the top pane shows all the relevant information. Good choices on what to show as well. The Omega icon could be done away with, but it's discreet enough that I don't mind it.
  • Making all the gold borders shaded - much less jarring, even though I still think they could be done away with altogether for Omegas. Have them for Alphas only.
  • Moving the injector icon down. This is a bit hard to judge, but I'll elaborate a bit in my criticism.


The not so bad:

  • If possible, could the time needed for a skill, in the category view, be tab-separated from the name? I understand there could be concern about possibly placing it too close to the skill names of the 2nd column, so perhaps keep them close to the skill they belong to but line them up vertically? This is a minor concern, but it would improve the clarity of the view, at a glance.
  • The tooltip threshold is still wonky (https://youtu.be/1yGUkDYsg5E watch 01:00 to about 02:00 especially where I try repeatedly and fail to add a skill to the queue - in that video, all attempts are to add a skill to the queue, never to read the description or anything, so whenever i'm not adding a skill to the queue, it's me failing to do so). On this point, I think that while the tool-tips are better placed and provide useful functionality (previewing the description and requirements at a glance which is great), the hover threshold is a big issue and hard to judge. The same difficulty applies when trying to drag a skill into the queue because too little is visible and the attempt keeps failing (but i'll address this separately).

  • However, you _do_ have double-click to append a skill to the end of the queue (and huge props for that - I always felt that it should work that way), which sort of obsoletes the button (but not drag+drop). So I'd say, despite the thresholding issues, it's ok to leave the tooltips as they are. The information is ok, the placing is good and there's little need to use the button itself (although I'd prefer to see it removed, to prevent people from struggling to use it and getting frustrated - they're much more likely to try drag+drop or doubleclick, both of which work better).

    I think the issue here is that two conflicting concerns need to be met: the needs of new players (as you percieve them) and the needs of playes comfortable with the game (as we express them). I think a rather more elegant solution than trying to meet all these in one format is to provide an expanded view, alternatively, which would reconfigure the window to a more practical layout. I've made a very rough mockup of what I mean: http://i.imgur.com/tBvCkAg.png

    (I got lazy and only made up the skill point indication for wing command, should be for all the skills)

    I think if you have an option, snuggly hidden in the dropdown menu that has the skill queue import options, to switch to this "expanded view", it would satisfy most any objection here. The new view, I think, I sufficient now for use by rookies but this way everyone else (which is most players) can be satisfied as well. I considered that maybe the information on the tooltip could be placed at the bottom of the category skill listing on the left, but I'm not sure that would be necessary (although it would be nice and would make better use of the space, considering now the skill category view isn't a tree).

    I got rid of the omega and skill injector icons as well. I think they're superfluous and can be done away with, at least for this expanded view (for the injector one). In the expanded view the categories should no longer indicate skill rank completion but instead show the total SP allocated to that category (I don't think anyone who wants to use this expanded view would be confused by the change at all). I've also aligned the numbers, which is a minor detail, but since your minimum width is wide enough, i think there's room for this.

    A view of this kind is important because otherwise, screenshotting the skill queue to preserve or share it is far harder as there is less space with it attached to the bottom of the window, it's far harder to shift skills around on the queue as there is far less visibility (and holding them while waiting for it to scroll up slowly, especially when you don't know when to stop, is way too frustrating to do for 5-10+ skills when crafting a queue) and it's harder to gauge a longer skill plan and which parts will take longer


MechaLynx
#114 - 2016-10-22 13:05:01 UTC
Still needed:

  • Export/Copy to clipboard for current skill queue (not the one in training, the one currently visible, assuming there is an option to save, as is currently the case). I think if there's any time this can be done, it's now, while the iron is hot. I think it's much like double-clicking to append a skill - you expect this to be possible and when you find out it's not (not even using ctrl+a, ctrl+c) you get the sinking feeling of realizing you need to manually copy all the skills to a note.
  • Don't discard the entire queue when clone state drops from omega to alpha. I would hate to be the guy who lets his omega status lapse for an hour and returns to see their skill queue, which they couldn't back up and are unlikely to remember, has been lost, leaving a single skill there (or 24hrs worth of alpha skills, which for most players a few months old means an empty alpha queue). You can either store the queue and skip over all skills that are untrainable as alpha (i would say those with omega skill requirements too but that's a tautology) or have it stored as an "omega queue", that can be previewed and restored when the clone returns to omega state.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#115 - 2016-10-22 15:48:55 UTC
When looking at the certificate view what is the number showing up by the group name. Cant find a direct correlation with any other info in the window.

It continues to look better.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Xynthiar
OnlyFleets.
#116 - 2016-10-24 17:17:09 UTC

  • The omega/alpha popups (these: http://i.imgur.com/K6R8k7Z.jpg) could be a little easier to close. The X is tiny, and pretty hard to spot (white on yellow background, and it doesn't even show up unless you hover over the panel).

  • The "add to queue" button you get when hovering over a skill in show info -> requirements could use some tweaks. Right now, you can only add one rank of the skill at a time. You have to reopen the hover-popup for every skill rank you wish to add. There's also no indication of how many ranks you've added, until you refresh the show info.

  • In lieu of the "apply" button, the ability to undo a change in the queue would be handy.

  • Each skill in the queue takes up a lot of vertical space. Is this necessary? The vertical size could be reduced without having to reduce icon size: http://i.imgur.com/xhbe7n3.png
  • This would greatly increase the # of skills you can see at a time in your queue.
Longdrinks
Zero Fun Allowed
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#117 - 2016-10-26 19:22:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Longdrinks
After knee-jerk hating on the new character sheet i kinda like it now. Only thing im missing is some options to view skills in a list and smaller text if i want too inspect skills faster as a experienced player. Also being able to have training queue in own window if i want so more space to browse for skills to put in it.

Some times i also play on older laptop and being able to disable or only have a freezeframe for the avatar on top would be nice so the game wont have to load the character model engine. Kind of like how you can disable station interior view so its only a static picture of your ship and hangar background.

Edit: realized you can collapse the part with the avatar. Nice!
Marius Bureschi
Doomheim
#118 - 2016-10-29 21:36:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Marius Bureschi
i think the popup info for skill groups its too fast.
0.5 s would be better.
Lunariia
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
#119 - 2016-10-30 22:02:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Lunariia
Dear CCP,

Even with the horizontal change, the new skill UI is absolutely horrendous. Virtually the entire population of the game is asking for it to not be implemented. Please listen to them. Maybe if we spend a few more weeks staring at it then we will like it.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#120 - 2016-10-30 23:41:43 UTC
Lunariia wrote:
Dear CCP,

Even with the horizontal change, the new skill UI is absolutely horrendous. Virtually the entire population of the game is asking for it to not be implemented. Please listen to them. Maybe if we spend a few more weeks staring at it then we will like it.


Stop pulling sh*t out your ass. Plenty of people applaud this much needed UI change. It will take some getting used to and after a week or two you will wonder how you ever lived without. Deal with the change, this game is not going to stay in the early 2000's forever. It's been there way too long already.

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