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[November] Orca Changes

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Flashmala
BlackWatch Industrial Group
Memento Moriendo
#161 - 2016-10-07 19:58:53 UTC
Drigo Segvian wrote:
If the gankers are crying then its a good change. +1 CCP Cool


Let the CODE salt flow...

Age does not diminish the extreme disappointment of having a scoop of ice cream fall from the cone.
Goati
Doomheim
#162 - 2016-10-07 21:03:19 UTC
Flashmala wrote:
Drigo Segvian wrote:
If the gankers are crying then its a good change. +1 CCP Cool


Let the CODE salt flow...


Tanked orcas were already not ganked anyway. 400k or 600k ehp, they are left alone.

The main change is that it will now be possible to shut down the fleet boosts of miners by bumping their Orca away. And the icing on the cake is that the Orca will not be able to mine either if it is bumped away.

Such a shame miners, to have such an overpowered vessel be completely countered by a bumper.
Flashmala
BlackWatch Industrial Group
Memento Moriendo
#163 - 2016-10-07 21:06:27 UTC
Goati wrote:
Flashmala wrote:
Drigo Segvian wrote:
If the gankers are crying then its a good change. +1 CCP Cool


Let the CODE salt flow...


Tanked orcas were already not ganked anyway. 400k or 600k ehp, they are left alone.

The main change is that it will now be possible to shut down the fleet boosts of miners by bumping their Orca away. And the icing on the cake is that the Orca will not be able to mine either if it is bumped away.

Such a shame miners, to have such an overpowered vessel be completely countered by a bumper.

Isn't bumping getting the 3-minute nerf?

Age does not diminish the extreme disappointment of having a scoop of ice cream fall from the cone.
Balhut Fakutori
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#164 - 2016-10-07 21:06:39 UTC
Hello :)

First pillar, new boosts are solid imo, but Orca should have ore compression module instead of increased ore hold, some smaller version of industrial core, like siege and bastion modules. In the old days to compress ore in hisec you needed your own pos, but now you can compress ore for free anywhere (or 1-2 jumps away) thanks to citadels so why don't do it in belt. This would cover helping miners because orca would perform tasks that exhumers can't (boosts and ore keeping). You can haul in a hauler/freighter you don't need orca for that.

Second pillar, as said before security in hisec does not come from dps but from tank compared to value of your ship/fit/cargo, so if you fly cheap ship with tons of ehp you are safe, but if you have billions in cargo in untanked t1 hauler you are asking for trouble.
This is true with mining ships too, and now mining ice with anything other than proc/skiff is suicide. So it would be cool that the same industrial module could extend orca's regular shield to be 5 km in radius so all mining ships can hide under it. And you would need to kill orca's shield in order to gank miners. This would provide protection because now one catalyst is enough to kill ret/covetor in few seconds. This module would allow only fleeted industrials to enter and make orca immobile and immune to bumping and it could run on heavy water or something.

Third pillar, mining in orca is good as long as it not outperform exhumers in this role.

you asked for feedback, you have it :)
and sorry for my English
thanks
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#165 - 2016-10-07 23:19:38 UTC
Balhut Fakutori wrote:
Orca should have ore compression module

...

if you fly cheap ship with tons of ehp you are safe, but if you have billions in cargo in untanked t1 hauler you are asking for trouble.


How much cargo value do you think an Orca filled with compressed ore would amount to? "asking for trouble" levels?
Jalxan
EVE University
Ivy League
#166 - 2016-10-08 01:33:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jalxan
I don't see why people are so concerned about bumping. If I ever need to worry about bumping, a 500mn MWD, and an Anchor rig, will easily boost that ship to 400,000,000kg. And that would put the relative end to that. It won't make it impossible, but it will surely make it far more difficult.

EDIT - I actually would like to see the ability to stack Anchor rigs, instead of being limited to just one. Or, alternatively, make a tech 2 rig which adds 150% or more instead.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#167 - 2016-10-08 02:47:29 UTC
Flashmala wrote:
Goati wrote:
Flashmala wrote:
Drigo Segvian wrote:
If the gankers are crying then its a good change. +1 CCP Cool


Let the CODE salt flow...


Tanked orcas were already not ganked anyway. 400k or 600k ehp, they are left alone.

The main change is that it will now be possible to shut down the fleet boosts of miners by bumping their Orca away. And the icing on the cake is that the Orca will not be able to mine either if it is bumped away.

Such a shame miners, to have such an overpowered vessel be completely countered by a bumper.

Isn't bumping getting the 3-minute nerf?

For warping yes, but that doesn't stop someone from bumping you again once you warp back.

It's going to be interesting to see how much dedication there is to the bumping cause.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#168 - 2016-10-08 03:05:11 UTC
Jalxan wrote:
I don't see why people are so concerned about bumping. If I ever need to worry about bumping, a 500mn MWD, and an Anchor rig, will easily boost that ship to 400,000,000kg. And that would put the relative end to that. It won't make it impossible, but it will surely make it far more difficult.

EDIT - I actually would like to see the ability to stack Anchor rigs, instead of being limited to just one. Or, alternatively, make a tech 2 rig which adds 150% or more instead.



Its the fitting tradeoff issue some would have. As seen in the CCP fix BS threads as well. Posters put up solutions in game now...and its I don't want to do that. I want to fit my ship my way the reasoning.

Me I see your point. some fits I have for many things are built around what may happen from other people and not the actual dream fit I'd like. Its an open sandbox mmo....sometimes you have to build your sand castles around other peoples stuff lol.


My orca just hauls crap and my smaller rat killing pve ships. I go with a mWD fit setup I saw somewhere else. Day comes I meet this issue, well guess we can tug of war between my mwd setup and their bumping till one side gets bored or I win and clear the situation lol.

Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#169 - 2016-10-08 05:14:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark O'Helm
Jalxan wrote:
I don't see why people are so concerned about bumping. If I ever need to worry about bumping, a 500mn MWD, and an Anchor rig, will easily boost that ship to 400,000,000kg. And that would put the relative end to that. It won't make it impossible, but it will surely make it far more difficult.

EDIT - I actually would like to see the ability to stack Anchor rigs, instead of being limited to just one. Or, alternatively, make a tech 2 rig which adds 150% or more instead.

My Orca does have an 500MWD onbord (10 sec to warp is priceless), while an AB too brings the same amount of extra mass .
A well fitted Machariel or Stabber still can bump me to a speed of over 1000m/s. I tried an Higgs-Anchor but it did not help.
On sisi, i even was able to bump a Rorqual with an MWD and a Higgs-Anchor on Indu-Mode with a Skiff. Not much, but it works.

If it can move by itself, you can bump it.

If something seems impossible to do in EVE, people will find a way to do it.

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#170 - 2016-10-08 13:44:29 UTC
Ok, I'll put this out there.

For the min/max crowd and math geniuses.

Looking at the mining boosts the Orca only needs 2, Optimisation and Enhancement, which will leave 4 high slots. You don't need a tractor as you can just toss a mtu out.

So we'll have 4 slots to use....

What would the yield be if they were fitted with mining lasers along with the drones?

Along with the boosts ofc.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#171 - 2016-10-08 13:54:17 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:
Ok, I'll put this out there.

For the min/max crowd and math geniuses.

Looking at the mining boosts the Orca only needs 2, Optimisation and Enhancement, which will leave 4 high slots. You don't need a tractor as you can just toss a mtu out.

So we'll have 4 slots to use....

What would the yield be if they were fitted with mining lasers along with the drones?

Along with the boosts ofc.

Orcas can't use turrets.

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#172 - 2016-10-08 14:38:05 UTC
Mark O'Helm wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:
Ok, I'll put this out there.

For the min/max crowd and math geniuses.

Looking at the mining boosts the Orca only needs 2, Optimisation and Enhancement, which will leave 4 high slots. You don't need a tractor as you can just toss a mtu out.

So we'll have 4 slots to use....

What would the yield be if they were fitted with mining lasers along with the drones?

Along with the boosts ofc.

Orcas can't use turrets.



Pffft

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
perpetua Isimazu
Have I Got Moos For You
#173 - 2016-10-08 18:45:29 UTC
What with all the references to bumping, I think it might be interesting to see a watered down version of the industrial core for the orca and make all these new buffs to drone mining only accessible when said core was active.

That core should probably act the same way as the cores for the rorq when it comes to mobility.

Be interesting to see what new griefing methods would be employed if the orca was unable to be bumped. Perhaps those 50 man gank fleets that have been referenced in this thread might actually appear.

Or not.

Either way, it'd throw the cat among the pigeons and be fun to see what happened. ;)
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#174 - 2016-10-08 19:16:30 UTC
I've never seen a pigeon eat a cat Pirate
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#175 - 2016-10-08 21:13:16 UTC
It's more like a bunch of cats(catalysts) vs one cow(orca).

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#176 - 2016-10-08 21:14:07 UTC
perpetua Isimazu wrote:
What with all the references to bumping, I think it might be interesting to see a watered down version of the industrial core for the orca and make all these new buffs to drone mining only accessible when said core was active.

That core should probably act the same way as the cores for the rorq when it comes to mobility.

Be interesting to see what new griefing methods would be employed if the orca was unable to be bumped. Perhaps those 50 man gank fleets that have been referenced in this thread might actually appear.

Or not.

Either way, it'd throw the cat among the pigeons and be fun to see what happened. ;)

Please read post#169

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#177 - 2016-10-08 21:45:49 UTC
Mark O'Helm wrote:
It's more like a bunch of cats(catalysts) vs one cow(orca).


Hippo amongst lions.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#178 - 2016-10-09 01:05:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark O'Helm
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Mark O'Helm wrote:
It's more like a bunch of cats(catalysts) vs one cow(orca).


Hippo amongst lions.


Hippos kill more people per year then lions. Orcas in Eve are more like vegetarian.

New comparision: 20 white sharks vs. 1 blue whale.

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
PhosGate
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#179 - 2016-10-09 05:03:13 UTC
lots of todo being made on how much ORE this will be able to pull in while in high sec.

Augmented mining drones will not see that much use in high sec. Maybe islands and quite regions of low and null but not the standard high use areas of high sec. They are much too squishy for the cost. I am not a ganker but if I see aug mining drones on D I absolutely will be grabbing a Thrasher with unstacked arti's warping to zero on the Orca and popping one to three of them as he tries to pull them back into the drone bay. Being able to do that much isk damage that easily will be a thing. These drones will be over 200mil each and unlike ORE mining lasers, will be hanging out in space all by their onesies alone and afraid. I will be compelled to put them out of their misery and most certainly will not be the only one doing this. Might even be a new thing for highsec. Gankers, bumpers and now drone rapers or some such thing. I'll leave the naming convention to you cool kids. Figure your mining calculations for the Orca in highsec with T2 drones when comparing how much they can mine as related to barge/exhumer.
Roy ThunderRoad
Finders Seekers
#180 - 2016-10-09 09:39:16 UTC

@ PhosGate

Lol I have no axe to grind on this subject either way - but Sir I salute your post for two reasons.

1 - I like your style of putting your point accross

2 - you have, in this single post, nullified half the whine in this thread

o7

Cheers Roy