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[November] Orca Changes

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Jin Kugu
Make Luv Not War
Goonswarm Federation
#61 - 2016-10-04 23:10:24 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Jin Kugu wrote:

We could just delay concord and facpo by 20 seconds if that's what you want.

If we also get buffs to PG, CPU, & slots on all industrials and all barges, sure we can have slower concord.
Or you know, we could consider that a single ship that wasn't heavily targeted by gankers anyway is not a significant nerf to ganking and CCP considered that that particular ship was too weak for it's class & cost.


I doubt this was aimed at ganking but the orca will become way too strong in high sec.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2016-10-04 23:20:07 UTC
Jin Kugu wrote:
I doubt this was aimed at ganking but the orca will become way too strong in high sec.
The only real difference here is that there will be something worth fitting that isn't pure tank. With the active mining role and the ability to actually fit a decent sized prop mod it will actually function like a real ship rather than a punching bag.

The innate HP could be toned down if only the concept that indy ships need pigeonholed with limited slots and fitting could die in a fire. So long as they can't have options equivalent to their combat peers of course the HP and function is going to be baked in at high levels.
Jin Kugu
Make Luv Not War
Goonswarm Federation
#63 - 2016-10-04 23:29:50 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
The only real difference here is that there will be something worth fitting that isn't pure tank. With the active mining role and the ability to actually fit a decent sized prop mod it will actually function like a real ship rather than a punching bag.

The innate HP could be toned down if only the concept that indy ships need pigeonholed with limited slots and fitting could die in a fire. So long as they can't have options equivalent to their combat peers of course the HP and function is going to be baked in at high levels.



You don't need the mids or lows for mining, it's not much of a choice when the only option is tank.

The problem is that the base EHP is going up AND it gets a new mid AND it gets a bigger ore hold. Oh and the orca will be a totally viable combat ship too if with limited uses.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2016-10-04 23:42:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Brokk Witgenstein
Oradric Cube wrote:
According to my understanding of the remote repair mechanics the orca pilot would get a concord suspect flag (yellow blinky) if they perform remote repair on a fleet member that has been attacked by another player in hisec triggering concord criminal (red blinky).


This is my understanding too UNLESS the pilot is a member of your own corp. Then you are free to repair without going suspect. Another option would be to quickly accept a duel invite from the one requiring logi -- this especially useful in case the target you wish to rep is another Orca.

EDIT: WOOOPS apparently you wouldn't even get a flag if your reptarget didn't aggress anything. Even better then \o/ Woo-hoo!

Changes are looking excellent by the way - so glad I didn't sell mine back when I didn't really need it anymore.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2016-10-04 23:43:30 UTC
Jin Kugu wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
The only real difference here is that there will be something worth fitting that isn't pure tank. With the active mining role and the ability to actually fit a decent sized prop mod it will actually function like a real ship rather than a punching bag.

The innate HP could be toned down if only the concept that indy ships need pigeonholed with limited slots and fitting could die in a fire. So long as they can't have options equivalent to their combat peers of course the HP and function is going to be baked in at high levels.



You don't need the mids or lows for mining, it's not much of a choice when the only option is tank.

The problem is that the base EHP is going up AND it gets a new mid AND it gets a bigger ore hold. Oh and the orca will be a totally viable combat ship too if with limited uses.

The EHP is going up because it's actually going somewhere useful if you tank it or want to receive reps from friendly help. And if is a good word to use there since enough paper thin orcas have died to say it's not obvious to everyone what (or even if apparently) to fit. Even more soon when drone mining rigs/DDAs/500mn MWDs aren't laughable suggestions.

And someone's still going to fit expanders.
Jin Kugu
Make Luv Not War
Goonswarm Federation
#66 - 2016-10-04 23:49:05 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:


The EHP is going up because it's actually going somewhere useful if you tank it or want to receive reps from friendly help. And if is a good word to use there since enough paper thin orcas have died to say it's not obvious to everyone what (or even if apparently) to fit. Even more soon when drone mining rigs/DDAs/500mn MWDs aren't laughable suggestions.

And someone's still going to fit expanders
.


Orcas can already fit a pretty massive tank. I would be all in favour of making more of that EHP shields instead of hull but keeping the massive hull plus a massive shield boost is too much.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2016-10-04 23:49:38 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

And someone's still going to fit expanders.

Last guys who suggested triple cargo rigs and full cargohold expanders in the lows got laughed at so hard by yours truly they had to close the thread LOL

That comment of yours just gave me an afterchuckle Big smile YaY! For common sense
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2016-10-05 00:05:30 UTC
Jin Kugu wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:


The EHP is going up because it's actually going somewhere useful if you tank it or want to receive reps from friendly help. And if is a good word to use there since enough paper thin orcas have died to say it's not obvious to everyone what (or even if apparently) to fit. Even more soon when drone mining rigs/DDAs/500mn MWDs aren't laughable suggestions.

And someone's still going to fit expanders
.


Orcas can already fit a pretty massive tank. I would be all in favour of making more of that EHP shields instead of hull but keeping the massive hull plus a massive shield boost is too much.

Agreed that the hull drop is pitiful compared to what was gained in shield HP and utility, but I can see the logic: It's moving to an always in the belt role, it's becoming an active miner, a logi? and a capable defender.

So more HP I guess.
Avon Salinder
#69 - 2016-10-05 00:34:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Avon Salinder
Holy crap. I was expecting more power for this ship but this might be a little bit nuts.

I will point out the obvious here that these changes make the mackinaw and skiff obsolete. We seem to have another Svipul effect going on - ships that have been underpowered for a long time get a massive buff, ruining game balance and making other ships in a similar role pointless.

I foresee a future of nothing but orcas in highsec belts, all but immune to ganking and quite possibly leading to a proliferation of bots, since the ore hold is so vast a pilot can just walk away from their keyboard ... unless there are further mining changes in the works to provide more engaging gameplay of course Cool
Ivan Beer
Thistles and Thorns
#70 - 2016-10-05 00:35:39 UTC
Hello all.

I have a quick question or two, am and still reading the entire blog.


When will the new 'blueprints' be available?

When will the new 'skill books' be available?


Thanks in advance!
zaayr
MUSE LLP
#71 - 2016-10-05 00:53:01 UTC
um, I don't know if it is me but I can already lock 5 with my orca so 7 is only a +2
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#72 - 2016-10-05 00:57:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Ripard Teg wrote:
Please increase the Scan Resolution on the Orca.

Put it this way: can a high-sec Orca even lock one of the Catalysts ganking it before (a) the Orca dies, or (b) all of the Catalysts die? Can the same Orca lock and kill an untanked gank Talos before CONCORD does the job for him?

DPS is useless if you can't apply it.

Auto-agress will allow the drones to attack any ship that attacks the Orca. The proviso being that combat drones have to be out before the Orca is aggressed.

Attentive Orca pilots will manage that ok I think (we won't really know until some data is in). Abandon mining drones, drop combats. That's a pretty quick process.

With the +1 midslot, there's always the option to fit a sebo as opposed to extra tank, propulsion, tackle, etc.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#73 - 2016-10-05 01:13:00 UTC
Came expecting a buff to ore hold. Instead got a mini FAX that will enjoy having angry sex with battleships.



If you think they are going to be good running missions however, i should point out a few things:

- They are slow as ****. Until CCP remove pockets linked by accel gates, getting them from room to room will be agony.
- The dps is less than cheaper battleships.
- It's drones are vulnerable when engaging targets at range.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
TomyLobo
U2EZ
#74 - 2016-10-05 01:13:24 UTC
As someone who uses the orca for tranporting materials for manufacturing and finished goods, I like the new bonuses but I would rather have a 100,000m3 fleet hangar and 100,000m3 ore hold compared to what is being proposed. It makes the orca more flexible to the needs of the manufacturing base not just mining. We shouldn't be forced to use freighters when moving anything above 140,000m3 and below 200,000m3.
TomyLobo
U2EZ
#75 - 2016-10-05 01:22:55 UTC
Goati wrote:
Fit right It will be near ungankable and is an afk miners dream, crazy. It is beyond a joke.

Bring more dps?
Jin Kugu
Make Luv Not War
Goonswarm Federation
#76 - 2016-10-05 01:40:13 UTC
TomyLobo wrote:
Goati wrote:
Fit right It will be near ungankable and is an afk miners dream, crazy. It is beyond a joke.

Bring more dps?


People working together need to be continuesly nerfed compared to lazy people.

Once upon a time eve had great stories that happend in high sec like hulkageddon and ice interdictions. Because lazy people like you keep whining for more EHP that potential dissapeared. Now not much of note ever happens in high sec.
IV Dystopia
Perkone
Caldari State
#77 - 2016-10-05 02:28:36 UTC  |  Edited by: IV Dystopia
Lol AMAZING!!! Big smile

#deathtoexhumers

Can I get a cloak on my Orca and maybe a BFG?

This is going to be awesome!!!!

I'm sooooo bad at this game the new Orca/ Rorqual changes might make me good...?

Maybe not, but here are some dots...............................................................................
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#78 - 2016-10-05 02:36:06 UTC
IV Dystopia wrote:
Can I get a cloak on my Orca and maybe a BFG?...

You can already get a cloak on an Orca.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
IV Dystopia
Perkone
Caldari State
#79 - 2016-10-05 02:37:06 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
IV Dystopia wrote:
Can I get a cloak on my Orca and maybe a BFG?...

You can already get a cloak on an Orca.


/wink not a Cov Ops Cloak...sweetie...
Sir SmashAlot
The League of Extraordinary Opportunists
Intergalactic Conservation Movement
#80 - 2016-10-05 03:07:05 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Ripard Teg wrote:
Please increase the Scan Resolution on the Orca.

Put it this way: can a high-sec Orca even lock one of the Catalysts ganking it before (a) the Orca dies, or (b) all of the Catalysts die? Can the same Orca lock and kill an untanked gank Talos before CONCORD does the job for him?

DPS is useless if you can't apply it.


Guard your fleet with a fast-locking destroyer or interceptor, with sentry drones deployed by the mining fleet assisted to the guard. At a pinch you can use a scan-resolution-boosted hauler for the same job.

A lateral option is to have two Orcas, each providing one command burst and permanent remote reps to the rest of the fleet.

Fit for agility rather than tank, and warp out before hostiles land on grid.

Fit warp core stabilisers and warp out before getting blown up.


Drone assists do not work in high sec for killing suspects or criminals