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[November] Rorqual Astrahus citadel docking fix

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Arrendis
TK Corp
#81 - 2016-09-20 18:11:31 UTC
Movilion wrote:
And Carriers? Does anyone thinks about the Carriers?


So, a lot of drama about F, JF and Rorquals, but Carriers are Smaller than F and JF, and even smaller than some Battleships!;ok this is only visual, but... Even some Dreads are smaller than a J or JF, and non can dock in Astrahus.

Please, dont try to justify that Rorquals should be able to dock in Astrahus cause they are smaller than F and JF.


I think Rorquals should go as Carriers & Dreads, BUT as many people said if the new Industrial Structures are going to grant dock access to Rorquals, should be changed when those are release.


They've repeatedly said the carriers' size needs to be addressed.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#82 - 2016-09-20 18:17:26 UTC
I honestly think the mechanic should stay. At a minimum until the full rorqual changes acome out (possibly until we hear about whatever the refining array will be).

It would be much more seamless transition for whatever is on the table for it.
Spurty
#83 - 2016-09-20 18:18:35 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
They've repeatedly said the carriers' size needs to be addressed.


There's ZERO value in what people 'say'. It's what they do, which you judge them on.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#84 - 2016-09-20 18:24:44 UTC
Tiberizzle wrote:

please learn to recognize your limits and paint within the lines fozzie, industry is most assuredly not your wheelhouse

I find this comment especially amusing as this is literally a case of painting within the lines that were determined by others. :sigh:

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#85 - 2016-09-20 18:28:11 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit.

Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within my power to leave the docking access as it is long-term since Astrahus citadels don't have the correct docking port for a Rorqual-sized ship), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates.

One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I'm not going to lie and tell you that we know exactly when that feature will be done, but it is on our roadmap.

In the meantime TL:DR is that we're delaying this fix for now, at least until November.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Kithran
#86 - 2016-09-20 18:34:14 UTC
One thing that appears to have been missed so far is the impact this will have on small group logistics (as opposed to mining operations).

At present a small group can have a base and a way of moving bulk cargo to that base for approx 4 billion - 1.5 for the astrahus, 2.5 for a rorqual. Cargo rigged a rorqual is a poor man's jump frieghter - smaller capacity and unable to enter high sec but still has the ability to carry things like packaged battleships and a fatigue reduction that allows multiple trips.

If the ability of a rorqual to dock is removed this cost more than doubles.

Yes I realise this is an edge case but its a point I haven't seen raised yet.

Note I do own a rorqual I use for logistics purposes but also have a jump freighter so this change will have a minimal if any impact on my activities.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#87 - 2016-09-20 18:36:55 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit. Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within mine or any other single individual's control), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates.

Fozzie, it is very troubling that the idea was broached, a patch scheduled, probably worked-on, and announced ... without anyone thinking "Hmm, could this be considered a bad idea?"

Curious: Did you announce this change to the CSM and get their feedback?

Also, the only time devs stumble into the industry forum seems to be is by mistake.
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2016-09-20 18:42:35 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit.

Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within my power to leave the docking access as it is long-term since Astrahus citadels don't have the correct docking port for a Rorqual-sized ship), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates.

One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I'm not going to lie and tell you that we know exactly when that feature will be done, but it is on our roadmap.

In the meantime TL:DR is that we're delaying this fix for now, at least until November.


This is the right move, Fozzie. Thank you for listening to your customer base on this.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#89 - 2016-09-20 18:47:42 UTC
Arrendis wrote:

Emphasis added in my original statement.

The ORCA—the Large hull in question—is not a capital ship. It's not a freighter. It is an 'Industrial Command Ship' that takes the same rigs as a battleship.

I said nothing about freighters.

Oops, you're right. Sorry.

Orcas are an odd hybrid between large and capital ships.

Orcas require Capital Components and Capital Ship Components to build, and are listed under the Capitals group of Ships (in the Capital Industrial Ships group). On the other side of the coin, they use Large rigs and are built in Large SAA's. A strange hybrid between ship classes.

For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
Larodil
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#90 - 2016-09-20 18:48:43 UTC
Classic CCP... Fixing issues that noone knew were an issue. Also, for those people who say that Orca's and Freighters are not capital ships, it takes ONLY capital parts to build both of them. They are Capital Ships, without jump drives... At least wait until the industrial citadel's are out and you can dock in those to build stuff.
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#91 - 2016-09-20 18:50:10 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit.


Thank you for your consideration on this.

My only interest in this is that I have two Rorquals that are sitting in low sec, unused. It would be nice if they were in demand and useful so I could actually sell them.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#92 - 2016-09-20 18:57:50 UTC
Commander Spurty wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
They've repeatedly said the carriers' size needs to be addressed.


There's ZERO value in what people 'say'. It's what they do, which you judge them on.



So you say.... Blink
Jay Amazingness
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#93 - 2016-09-20 18:59:35 UTC
holy **** ccp listened, quick lets all start complaining about sov surely they will listen

CEO of serious space alliance I too am gay, a member of the Memeperium
Winston Nimitz
Original Sinners
Pandemic Legion
#94 - 2016-09-20 19:01:49 UTC
Jay Amazingness wrote:
holy **** ccp listened, quick lets all start complaining about sov surely they will listen


Need....... MOAR..... KILLMAILS :sun:
Larodil
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#95 - 2016-09-20 19:03:16 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit.

Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within my power to leave the docking access as it is long-term since Astrahus citadels don't have the correct docking port for a Rorqual-sized ship), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates.

One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I'm not going to lie and tell you that we know exactly when that feature will be done, but it is on our roadmap.

In the meantime TL:DR is that we're delaying this fix for now, at least until November.



Waiting until November "at the earliest" would be helpful, but not having a way to move stuff from the Rorqual to the Citadel "THAT YOU DESIGNED TO BE THE REPROCESSING CITADEL" is just dumb. Saying that it doesn't have the correct undocking port, when you obviously have an undocking port for orca's and freighters and jump freighters is just lazy. Have it undock from that same port and end the argument.
Space Captain Austrene
Industry and Exploring Federation
#96 - 2016-09-20 19:04:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Space Captain Austrene
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit.

Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within my power to leave the docking access as it is long-term since Astrahus citadels don't have the correct docking port for a Rorqual-sized ship), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates.

One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I'm not going to lie and tell you that we know exactly when that feature will be done, but it is on our roadmap.

In the meantime TL:DR is that we're delaying this fix for now, at least until November.

Holy ****, CCP decided to fix what the bandaid solution was holding together before removing the ******* bandaid.

If only you had done this to basic things such as testing what would happen when a dread fleet undocked from a station and warped to a gate before mangling the jump drives.
Siede Dunham
Kinship
The Initiative.
#97 - 2016-09-20 19:08:41 UTC
Orca, Freighters and Jump freighters aren't true Capitals to begin with see the restriction of using highsec-gates. They were always an exception to Capital rules.

Now let us look at the Rorqual... Yes thats right, not the same rules apply here.

It would have been complete logical if it was like that from the beginning. I get that ppl who threw down Astrahus now are annoyed but we are talking about Null-sec alliances. You can't tell me you aren't able to place a Fortizar in the next 2 months when you plan to use a Rorqual after the Booster changes...
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#98 - 2016-09-20 19:18:27 UTC
Thank you, Fozzie & Co.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#99 - 2016-09-20 19:28:14 UTC
Siede Dunham wrote:
Orca, Freighters and Jump freighters aren't true Capitals to begin with see the restriction of using highsec-gates. They were always an exception to Capital rules.

Now let us look at the Rorqual... Yes thats right, not the same rules apply here.

It would have been complete logical if it was like that from the beginning. I get that ppl who threw down Astrahus now are annoyed but we are talking about Null-sec alliances. You can't tell me you aren't able to place a Fortizar in the next 2 months when you plan to use a Rorqual after the Booster changes...

Well, I think you can DD all of them so there's that too.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#100 - 2016-09-20 19:39:01 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks. We hear your concerns, and a good point has been raised by some that it's especially awkward to fix this bug a month before the actual Rorqual changes hit.

Although we can't leave this bug in place long-term (it's not within my power to leave the docking access as it is long-term since Astrahus citadels don't have the correct docking port for a Rorqual-sized ship), after some discussion internally we can delay the bug fix until at least November so that it doesn't hit before the Rorqual revamp. There are a number of changes in the pipeline that should help address some of the concerns here, although they're not at a stage where I'm able to provide exact release dates.

One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I'm not going to lie and tell you that we know exactly when that feature will be done, but it is on our roadmap.

In the meantime TL:DR is that we're delaying this fix for now, at least until November.


Thanks for listening at least that much. I'm really looking forward to hearing what kind of functionality and features we get with the rest of the structure changes.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.