Player Features and Ideas Discussion

then they just use orcas and this solves nothing

Something like 500 hp.

How would that do anything it would be inside a wreck. Beside the freight thing isn't even a real option this isn't just done with freighter loot

I did not know this worked - I would suggest to implement the suspect inheritance but with a few other things.

A block from doing it based on security settings (since this also would impact Orca's that may have there corp steal and drop something in) though suspect Orca lol. If the pilot with the fleet hanger has their security setting set - it will let people that are flagged deposit and they will inherent - similar to how logi works. but will block the drop if the security is set to say green.

If you make ganking harder...you are making it easier on those getting ganked. Those getting ganked are the stupid ones.

Basic rule of economics, want more of something lower the costs, want less of it raise the costs. Since this would raise the cost of ganking you get less ganking and that makes it easier for people get away with being stupid and putting 15 billion in your freighter like Hectik Merius.

Because cornspiracy....

Right, a stack of 100 PLEX...of course, we'd all shoot.

But you have two freighters. One has 1 stack of 100 PLEX the other is flown by some guy who just hates stacks so he has 100 individual PLEX.

I hope you'd pick the guy with 100 individual stacks as I would because chances are I'll be plexing my accounts for 50 or so months which is better than 100 with odds 50:50...at least to me.

BTW this is why Dracvlad and Lucas Kell are just flat out wrong. Well not just this, but this is a big part of it.

Suppose further that you have to first put down 500 million you know you will lose with probability 1. Now which freighter do you pick. Your decision will be based on your preference for risk. So there is absolutely risk involved in ganking. The thing is the gankers understand this. Those getting ganked don't.

And in the end I see their posts as highly toxic.

If those players getting ganked do not understand this, then no amount of tinkering with the mechanics will likely yield a result that they'd be satisfied with. There are currently methods to avoid getting ganked in game. But these players are not using them NOW. Why should they start using them or new methods next week, next month or next year? What is going to ensure us of this? I submit there is nothing that can assure us of this outcome. As such, the only thing is to nerf ganking again and again. But that brings up another point.

Eve is not just about mechanics. Eve is about spontaneous order. What we, as players, do with it. That is what makes the game awesome. What are your best memories of Eve? That you can solo L4 When Worlds Collide or the first time you rescued the Damsel in Distress? Was it when you came back to a moon mining tower and saw if full of moon goo? I'm going to guess no. It was probably something involving other players.

They focus on the mechanics and ignore the player interaction. And they focus on nerfing player interaction. But that is what makes this game enjoyable for us.

It is also why I oppose this change. Perhaps if we had not had so many nerfs to ganking and HS PvP it might be reasonable, but right now...stop with all goddamn nerfs. We want people to interact more not less at this point.

Who says you have to pick one? This is eve, and you always have choices... In that specific situation I choose to bring in 2 bump machs and gank them both.

Also while I respect your right to an opinion, I think you are making this into something that its not. Nerfing this looting into a fleet hangar does nothing to lessen the amount of opportunities that players have to interact with each other. Actually making them go suspect just as you would have scooped the loot into a regular ships hangar would do just the opposite. It would create yet another chance for a played to interact.

A change like this isnt a huge nerf nor is it something that will break ganking. This isnt just another nerf in the sense that its just an outcry against ganking because its killing eve, chasing away new players, or any of that crap. The thing is that anything floating in a wreck or can is fair game for anyone and shouldnt be considered yours nor is it considered safe until you have docked up. This mechanic is just plain bad and introduces too much risk mitigation for what is being scooped into these fleet hangars.

I substantially agree with this. I mean what did the carebear apologists expect? That ganking would stop? Of course not, the ability to attack anyone anywhere is a fundamental plank of the game. Each nerf to ganking just makes highsec criminality less and less accessible to the average player and more the purview of the larger and dedicated groups (as does each nerf to wardecs). Antagonists will adapt, adjust and play by the new rules, but at the core of the game you are suppose to be vulnerable to them and always will be barring some massive, and probably game-breaking change in the development direction of this game. Unless you turn off aggression entirely, they will just group up and N+1 your nerfs, leading to larger imbalances in player strength on each side of the PvP contest than before the nerf.

Part of the problem is an identity crisis of what highsec is suppose to be. I think the best overall description is it is a safer space, where the core game play of Eve Online can still take place, but with NPC-enforced consequences that are designed to support solo/small group/casual play. The cost imposed by CONCORD prevents indiscriminate violence, and makes it not worth the effort of exploding the small fry, unless of course they shove billions of ISK into a shuttle or freighter, or bling fit some mission or mining ship.

This works to protect most players, but fails at supporting somewhat balanced conflict between players in that space. The higher you raise the bar to attack, the more organized and powerful the attackers have to be, and the bar is so high now that no solo or small group can match the organization or firepower of the large highsec criminal and mercenary groups.

I don't have an answer, but I am pretty sure as you say Teckos there is no going back at this point. The organized aggressor group won't forget what they have learned and will continue to completely outclass the average highsec group no matter how many nerfs you add to the game, unless you lock them out completely. Given that I believe CCP when they say they have no intention of ever doing that, the only hope to restore some balance to the game will come from a complete rework of highsec mechanics, either changing how crime and wardecs work so that smaller groups of players can actually pirate or mercenary again under some new or revamped special highsec aggression mechanics, or go the opposite way and make highsec less safe more like the rest of the game so these criminal/mercenary groups can be preyed upon by the larger fish outside of highsec.

All that said, I do agree with the OP. Clearly the intention of Crimewatch 2.0 was to put looters at risk of attack and that is not happening with the current looting mechanics. The problem is not trivial to solve however, both technically as like the Margin Trading Scam some fixes are not easy to implement with the database structure, and in terms of game design as there a number of other obvious ways to launder stolen goods in space using other containers. Ultimately, I don't think it would matter in any case as the organized groups would just bring more combat or gank ships to overwhelm the couple anti-gankers trying to attack the looter, or more likely, the anti-gankers would still be unable to catch the looting ship which is almost 100% safe if it loots and warps on the same server tick while aligned to a Citadel.

I think it probably best to leave this until the Crimewatch 3.0 redesign and see if something more interesting can be done with the idea of stolen goods.

I would rather be able to receive a KM for destroying the wreck of a gank with no suspect tag. I would be willing to bet ganker tears taste just as good as those that are ganked. If CCP is unwilling to change the mechanic that allows for this risk aversion using a DTS, then at least make this possible.