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Dev blog: Command Bursts and the New World of Fleet Boosting

First post First post
Author
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1361 - 2016-09-17 19:06:18 UTC
I was under the impression that the table CCP provided were theoretical maximums with everything taken into account including T2 core stats
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#1362 - 2016-09-17 19:11:33 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
I was under the impression that the table CCP provided were theoretical maximums with everything taken into account including T2 core stats


Good point.

Well, I hope we will be able to check it out as soon as possible on SiSi.
Laurens Punani
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1363 - 2016-09-17 19:14:53 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Laurens Punani wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
No, they get the SAME minerals for MORE work

Solo miners get LESS minerals for the SAME work



They dont siege rorquals --> LESS minerals
I siege a rorqual --> More minerals

--> Lowsec and NRDS get less money for more work

solo miners dont get any boosts --> Almost no minerals for the same amount of work.
get your facts right son


how is the current 97% yield bonus from a sieged rorqual LESS than the maximum proposed boost of 57% ???

Like do you know what you're talking about, AT ALL?



the guy above me i right ;)

PLUS i get fighter sized mining drones ...

So basically, i am right and you are an A*****e
Laurens Punani
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1364 - 2016-09-17 19:18:36 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
I was under the impression that the table CCP provided were theoretical maximums with everything taken into account including T2 core stats



It's 57% cycle time, which is a 130% yield bonus. do the math ... posted this on page 62 i think ;)

1/(1-0,5713) = 2,33 which is 233%, so its even 133% boost. You knew that while you where shitposting, right?
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1365 - 2016-09-17 20:44:21 UTC
it doesn't change the fact that this boost will be used by far fewer people due to the risk averse nature of miners

less ore overall, higher prices for the little guy who likely never had these boosts in the first place
Laurens Punani
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1366 - 2016-09-17 21:13:27 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
it doesn't change the fact that this boost will be used by far fewer people due to the risk averse nature of miners

less ore overall, higher prices for the little guy who likely never had these boosts in the first place




Sov-null industiralists are ALL gonna use it. I am gonna produce a ton of minerals more than right now... i guess you are not an industrialist, right? :D

the smaall guys normally get free orca boost in highsec and rorqual boost in NRDS space... they just have to ask for it. Come november thats over, so i get 133% boost, mining fighters, safe space, mining anomalies and good customers
and they get a big punch in the face :D

i pointed out earlier what could be done to change that, but i guess you have not read that.

I like how ALTHOUG you were completely wrong, you still want to be right :D

Prices wont change much, the yield for small alliances or solo miners will drop Dramatically while Sov-Null yield goes up.

btw. its harder to kill Sov-Null miners, so you should be on my side... promoting a better fututre for smaller entities and getting more miners in belts without the support of a whole fleet --> nice killmails
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1367 - 2016-09-17 21:27:59 UTC
I was wrong about boosts being lower after this change yes.

However you're still blind to the fact that sov null miners do not account for as much mining you think it does. Vast majority of minerals that get on the market comes from high sec. Unless you're trying to tell me they haul ore to jita and not sell it locally?

The standard of mining yield currently is that you find some free boosts and go mine with them, this has artificially deflated mineral prices for years because there's just such a vast quantity that demand can't keep up with supply.

For the life of me I don't understand why people wouldn't move to better sources of income, but instead just complain about everything that makes mining difficult like gankers and now this new boosting mechanic.

Now that only dedicated mining ops will be mass harvesting minerals and the rest of the people won't be getting as much, it should in theory raise the ISK/unit of ore up. This won't change the income much for those who just sit in high sec mining alone and relied on neutral boosts previously but for those who have some ambition and drive it could propel them into a new level.

And trust me not even the biggest alliances are safe, if and when rorquals come on grid, you'll be damn sure I'll be hunting them. More explosions more mineral demand, overall healthier economy.
Laurens Punani
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1368 - 2016-09-17 21:50:03 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
I was wrong about boosts being lower after this change yes.

However you're still blind to the fact that sov null miners do not account for as much mining you think it does. Vast majority of minerals that get on the market comes from high sec. Unless you're trying to tell me they haul ore to jita and not sell it locally?

The standard of mining yield currently is that you find some free boosts and go mine with them, this has artificially deflated mineral prices for years because there's just such a vast quantity that demand can't keep up with supply.

For the life of me I don't understand why people wouldn't move to better sources of income, but instead just complain about everything that makes mining difficult like gankers and now this new boosting mechanic.

Now that only dedicated mining ops will be mass harvesting minerals and the rest of the people won't be getting as much, it should in theory raise the ISK/unit of ore up. This won't change the income much for those who just sit in high sec mining alone and relied on neutral boosts previously but for those who have some ambition and drive it could propel them into a new level.

And trust me not even the biggest alliances are safe, if and when rorquals come on grid, you'll be damn sure I'll be hunting them. More explosions more mineral demand, overall healthier economy.



Orcas will still be fielded in HIGHSEC, thats what i said... like 5 pages ago... practically no change in highsec, practically no boosts in lowsec/nrds and a mining paradise for big alliances. technically, you are not wrong, but cant we agree, that 133% maximum boost is just too much?! This boost is broken... if they just removed the indu core we'd end up with something better! people feeling like they can still compete and fielding orcas, porpoises and if they feel really safe, rorquals. You'd still get killmails, but ccp woulnd't **** over people who cannot "safely" field a rorqual... ( i know i know, they are never truely safe... but i'm sure you understand what i mean). Right now people might think " just give it up, there is no point, we'll do something else where we are safe and make more money" which gives
a)everyone less people to play with
b) less targets for you to kill


PLUS: There are far more valuable targets than rorquals in sov space, you must know that ;)
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1369 - 2016-09-17 22:20:19 UTC
Quote:

but does not persist through docking and undocking or through system changes.


if this is for balance and not technical i would say it would be better if boosts lasted through system changes. I think this would add more to tactics and choices. boosting your fleet and not following them through the gate could leave the booster vulnerable and give your fleet a timer on their engagement if they are relying on the boosts. however i'v really only thought of this in regards to WH can some one come up with a reason this would be unbalanced in other areas of the game?
Donmadefy
Fuxi Legion
Fraternity.
#1370 - 2016-09-18 01:54:48 UTC
I would be 100% happy if boost where removed from the game. We can not just nerf the small guys. Please thank about it...
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1371 - 2016-09-18 02:31:42 UTC
Donmadefy wrote:
I would be 100% happy if boost where removed from the game. We can not just nerf the small guys. Please thank about it...


This is a buff to the small guy now I don't have to worry if everyone I '1v1' is actually 2v1
Donmadefy
Fuxi Legion
Fraternity.
#1372 - 2016-09-18 02:41:13 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Donmadefy wrote:
I would be 100% happy if boost where removed from the game. We can not just nerf the small guys. Please thank about it...


This is a buff to the small guy now I don't have to worry if everyone I '1v1' is actually 2v1


We know your agenda. Stop posting in here. you are a large group of baddies who just want other smaller groups to stop picking on you. You don't want smaller groups to nija mine no more. You just want to hog the game for yourself. GTFO
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1373 - 2016-09-18 02:54:10 UTC
Donmadefy wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Donmadefy wrote:
I would be 100% happy if boost where removed from the game. We can not just nerf the small guys. Please thank about it...


This is a buff to the small guy now I don't have to worry if everyone I '1v1' is actually 2v1


We know your agenda. Stop posting in here. you are a large group of baddies who just want other smaller groups to stop picking on you. You don't want smaller groups to nija mine no more. You just want to hog the game for yourself. GTFO



.... how am I part of a large group. I think the biggest fleet I have been in the past year was 10ppl. As for not wanting ninja mining check my signature. Even if I was in a large group that would not mean I didn't also spend a good deal of my time in Caldari fw and almost always solo
Laurens Punani
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1374 - 2016-09-18 07:27:45 UTC
If boosts were removed completly you'd never have to worry about a 1v1 situation actually being 2v1 ;)

we've established that small mining groups get a nerf. ( and that there are 2 people in this thread who actually like that ;) )

We've also established, that "solo" pvpers will probably not get boosts since multiboxing those two chars is now too difficult.

This is a nerf if you want to engage groups of 4-10 ppl who will probably have boosts while you cant have them. This is also a Buff if you want to engage other solo players since they will also not have boosts (of what you can be sure due to timers and visual effects.)

SO: You are both right ;)

And please Lugh, stop posting the same stuff over and over again. If people take the time to put their concerns into text, you should not be dismissing all of that with "Dude, you are wrong, you are getting a buff"

There might be a second point of view to what you are posting :)
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1375 - 2016-09-18 07:42:31 UTC
Only times I repeat myself is when I'm responding to the same points.

This isn't really even a nerf when going up against groups of 4-10 either as you can now split members away from their boost. Something you could not do before. The only way this is a nerf is if you really on ogb.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1376 - 2016-09-18 18:26:26 UTC
It's a direct nerf yes but people can't see the big picture. Overall this will help the game imo.
Lord Mudeki
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1377 - 2016-09-18 18:56:22 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
It's a direct nerf yes but people can't see the big picture. Overall this will help the game imo.


No it wont, all its going to do is cause a lot of people to unsub accounts, rorquals will either possibly be sold en masse there by dropping the price and/or not used anymore, as far as pvp goes I think its a good idea but for mining I don't think its a good idea at all or even well thought out pertaining to mining and the rorqual, to me this change is totally for pvp and not for mining, they are just throwing it in there so pvpers can have more easy targets. To be honest as Ive seen several posts saying the same thing and I agree with it, if this is supposed to be a pvp pew pew game only then get rid of everything else, if I wasn't supposed to do only industry related stuff then get rid of it all and make it so where you can only pvp, then we wont have to worry about so called "carebears" because pretty much 50% or more people in the game would leave/unsub their accounts and you would be left with nothing but pvpers but then again at that point the game would probably not be profitable anymore.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1378 - 2016-09-18 19:16:48 UTC
Lord Mudeki wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
It's a direct nerf yes but people can't see the big picture. Overall this will help the game imo.


No it wont, all its going to do is cause a lot of people to unsub accounts, rorquals will either possibly be sold en masse there by dropping the price and/or not used anymore, as far as pvp goes I think its a good idea but for mining I don't think its a good idea at all or even well thought out pertaining to mining and the rorqual, to me this change is totally for pvp and not for mining, they are just throwing it in there so pvpers can have more easy targets. To be honest as Ive seen several posts saying the same thing and I agree with it, if this is supposed to be a pvp pew pew game only then get rid of everything else, if I wasn't supposed to do only industry related stuff then get rid of it all and make it so where you can only pvp, then we wont have to worry about so called "carebears" because pretty much 50% or more people in the game would leave/unsub their accounts and you would be left with nothing but pvpers but then again at that point the game would probably not be profitable anymore.



Ridiculous hyperbole does not advance your cause.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1379 - 2016-09-18 19:21:04 UTC
Laurens Punani wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
it doesn't change the fact that this boost will be used by far fewer people due to the risk averse nature of miners

less ore overall, higher prices for the little guy who likely never had these boosts in the first place




Sov-null industiralists are ALL gonna use it. I am gonna produce a ton of minerals more than right now... i guess you are not an industrialist, right? :D

the smaall guys normally get free orca boost in highsec and rorqual boost in NRDS space... they just have to ask for it. Come november thats over, so i get 133% boost, mining fighters, safe space, mining anomalies and good customers
and they get a big punch in the face :D

i pointed out earlier what could be done to change that, but i guess you have not read that.

I like how ALTHOUG you were completely wrong, you still want to be right :D

Prices wont change much, the yield for small alliances or solo miners will drop Dramatically while Sov-Null yield goes up.

btw. its harder to kill Sov-Null miners, so you should be on my side... promoting a better fututre for smaller entities and getting more miners in belts without the support of a whole fleet --> nice killmails


"133% boost?"

Can you run the maths for me on that one?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1380 - 2016-09-18 19:21:56 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


Ridiculous hyperbole does not advance your cause.


New to Eve forums?

Yeah, well reasoned arguments are kinda hard to come by, here. End of the game breakage, aplenty, though. Enjoy your stay.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)