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Dev Blog: Introducing Clone States & the Future of Access to EVE

First post First post First post
Author
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#741 - 2016-09-01 06:12:39 UTC
Mina Askold wrote:
With the new changes coming to eve my drive to play is going fast. I don't know how the rest of you feel but this whole F2P idea just screams fail, and if its as bad as most people think it will be or heck even half this may be the end for me.

Unless they make free accounts yellow safety only this is going to be a **** show, and I don't see myself staying for it.

I will be sticking it out to see how it goes but I'm not holding my breath

They have already nerfed or dumbed down just about everything in this game that took even a small bit of skill and have taken the griefing to a whole new lvl I just can't see myself giving them more money or isk to continue to ruin a game I have loved for so many years

At one point I ran many accounts at times as many as 10, I have been running one for over a year now......main reason for the trim down is the changes suck most of the changes they claim people asked for when they didn't.....

CCP you act like you know what your game needs...do you even play? almost all the changes in the past year have made things worse on almost every level save for the few forumwarriors ...........it was a good run for almost 10 years myself but if the crap keeps up 1 will be zero.....I seem to remember a letter from hilmar saying that this **** would stop and that they would return to the core of the game they loved so much....I can see now that was a total line of BS.......

I know nothing lost and don't let the door hit me on the way out but its that exact attitude that has taken 40K to 25k and no you can't have my stuff

Very well said and quite true.

I remember years ago, after the 2011 Summer Of Rage, CCP gave us their Commitment To Excellence, saying they would never release anything until after reviewing playerbase feedback and concerns by making sure all new content would be thoroughly tested, bug free and un-exploitable.

Yeah, really.


DMC
Josef Djugashvilis
#742 - 2016-09-01 06:17:33 UTC
I can only assume that CCP are doing this as they are in severe financial straits so really I suspect I am leaving a sinking ship.

As I said in another post, any form of f2p and I shall retire from the game, unfortunately my sub does not expire until the middle of next year, then I am finished with Eve.

Take care all.

This is not a signature.

Atrox Wagner
Drunk Unicorns In Diapers
#743 - 2016-09-01 06:23:54 UTC
As a subscribed player since 2007 with breaks from time to time because of RL i have mixed feelings about how @ccp does the F2P. On one hand i'm happy i won't have extra costs, on the other i'm pissed i won't have access to my stuff while i'm un-subbed. Note: I have only 2 accounts, one subbed and one unsubbed because i have no use for it currently. So this is what i propose:

ALPHAS

- access to T2 small & medium - guns / armor / shield / miners

- a cood idea is to block alphas on SAFETY no aggression unless attacked

- limit access to T2 skills that effect T2 modules to max level 4 [like max Medium Blaster Specialisation would be 4]

- access to maximum of T1 frigate / destroyer / cruiser hulls [racial only] + mining barges

- triple or quadruple NPC tax - this would hinder the ISK farmers, that would probably train ventures & mine the entire HighSec after DT.

- only on this type of alpha clonse, make an aura POP-up that would ask the player what characters are written on a certain image [capcha]. this would happen only after 30 minutes of same type of activity [or actually make the timer on the popup random each time] [mining for example] and if the player doesn't enter the correct text into the box, you log them off - this way OMEGAS won't be hindered by lag if there's a large amount of afk alpha miners somewhere in the system.


BONUSES for ALPHAS maybe?

- if alpha subscribes offer them 2 skill INJECTORS or something that would help them, idk

OMEGAS

- obviously nothing changes will be as sub based

- imo, tho not sure how everybody feels about this, reduce cost of monthly subscription, this would probably make people sub for 6 or 12 months at least in one go with direct payment, and will probably keep hard earned isk for blowing up spaceships rather than throwing it on plex. this would probably reduce cost of plex and imma be primary for a while but whatever it's just an idea.


All above ideas came to mind considering the fact that maybe i will create an Alpha account at some point that will complement my main and secondary account. Imo i think they are fair but i would like to know what the community thinks.



^ posted this in another place, but it belongs here, sorry.
xXchochiXx
Unknown Activation
What Could Possibly Go Wr0ng
#744 - 2016-09-01 06:24:18 UTC
this is alarming to say the least. must not have got the cash boost with injectors as hoping but.

1 this idea will only benefit people after trial why not make something like 1 account per ip thats not limited skill wise but trains at a substantially lower as this free option it so restricted much like a trial account i cant see it being like "omg free space game lets play"
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#745 - 2016-09-01 06:30:33 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
So yeah... I can't add anything "constructive" to this Pandora's Box that CCP is about to open beyond, "trash the idea and the person who came up with it."

F2P in any form is, at best, a way to excise as much cash as possible out of a game/franchise.
At worst, it is the first death cry of a game.

I have rarely seen an exception to this.


Time to unsubscribe.

Definitely agree 100%

I've been told that a mortally wounded animal always bellows just before it dies.

We could very well be witnessing it's Death Throes.

Sad



DMC
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#746 - 2016-09-01 06:33:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Atrox Wagner wrote:
As a subscribed player since 2007 with breaks from time to time because of RL i have mixed feelings about how @ccp does the F2P. On one hand i'm happy i won't have extra costs, on the other i'm pissed i won't have access to my stuff while i'm un-subbed. Note: I have only 2 accounts, one subbed and one unsubbed because i have no use for it currently. So this is what i propose:

ALPHAS

- access to T2 small & medium - guns / armor / shield / miners

- a cood idea is to block alphas on SAFETY no aggression unless attacked

- limit access to T2 skills that effect T2 modules to max level 4 [like max Medium Blaster Specialisation would be 4]

- access to maximum of T1 frigate / destroyer / cruiser hulls [racial only] + mining barges

- triple or quadruple NPC tax - this would hinder the ISK farmers, that would probably train ventures & mine the entire HighSec after DT.

- only on this type of alpha clonse, make an aura POP-up that would ask the player what characters are written on a certain image [capcha]. this would happen only after 30 minutes of same type of activity [or actually make the timer on the popup random each time] [mining for example] and if the player doesn't enter the correct text into the box, you log them off - this way OMEGAS won't be hindered by lag if there's a large amount of afk alpha miners somewhere in the system.


BONUSES for ALPHAS maybe?

- if alpha subscribes offer them 2 skill INJECTORS or something that would help them, idk

OMEGAS

- obviously nothing changes will be as sub based

- imo, tho not sure how everybody feels about this, reduce cost of monthly subscription, this would probably make people sub for 6 or 12 months at least in one go with direct payment, and will probably keep hard earned isk for blowing up spaceships rather than throwing it on plex. this would probably reduce cost of plex and imma be primary for a while but whatever it's just an idea.


All above ideas came to mind considering the fact that maybe i will create an Alpha account at some point that will complement my main and secondary account. Imo i think they are fair but i would like to know what the community thinks.



^ posted this in another place, but it belongs here, sorry.


Huuhhh...no, no T2 for Alphas, not for guns at any rate. There are now gun/missile spec skills on the list. And no to T2 armor hardners either.

Maybe you should read the Devblog?

Oh, as for the cost of subs decreasing, they have been decreasing. The cost has not changed since I started playing meaning that after you account for inflation it cost less to sub now than it did 8 years ago.

Just...stop posting.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#747 - 2016-09-01 06:34:36 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I can only assume that CCP are doing this as they are in severe financial straits so really I suspect I am leaving a sinking ship.

As I said in another post, any form of f2p and I shall retire from the game, unfortunately my sub does not expire until the middle of next year, then I am finished with Eve.

Take care all.


Technically it won't ever expire.

Shouldn't you wait to see what harm this actually causes before quitting?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#748 - 2016-09-01 06:37:20 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I can only assume that CCP are doing this as they are in severe financial straits so really I suspect I am leaving a sinking ship.

As I said in another post, any form of f2p and I shall retire from the game, unfortunately my sub does not expire until the middle of next year, then I am finished with Eve.

Take care all.


Technically it won't ever expire.

Shouldn't you wait to see what harm this actually causes before quitting?


No, best option is to make wild ass claims about what people will do based on the most outlandish assumptions...then proclaim the game is dying, then post a hurf-blurf post about quitting because....well....because. Dammit!

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

BarnacleBOY007
Free Throbbing Veinal Penii For Spacmens
#749 - 2016-09-01 06:37:24 UTC
Hi! So this is the first time I've posted on the forums...and I just resubbed both of my accounts.

To start off, I love this idea. I could count on my one hand the amount of RL friends that were willing to play EVE, the rest didn't even give it a chance because you had to Sub...this new F2P would allow them (many others to come to the game).

My concerns are (and I'm not sure if they have been mentioned or addressed yet): 1- How would the in game market be affected by this change? Has the actual effect been calculated?
2- Since the pricing of subbing an account is not going to change, does that mean the current price to PLEX an account will also be unchanged?
3- (This has been mentioned) Multiple Alpha accounts, or multiple accounts in general. I currently Multibox 2 accounts. Would the rules of this have to change with the new Clone States coming out?

Other than that, CCP you guys are doing a great job...keep it up. I'm really glad to be back in the game. I look forward to more information with regards to these changes in the near future :)
Ares Splinter
Faceless.
Dracarys.
#750 - 2016-09-01 06:38:00 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Greetings capsuleers!

Today, we are happy to announce a new change that’s coming to EVE Online in November that will fundamentally change New Eden, and how our pilots access it via the EVE client.

In short, cloning scientists in New Eden have developed a new method of cloning that revolves around two new clone states, Alpha and Omega. Omega clones will be familiar to all our current players, and will operate just like a subscribed character does today. Alpha clones will be accessible for free, without subscription, and will be capable of training an assigned set of skills themed to a character’s race.

A Dev Blog has been published by Team Size Matters today with more details on this feature, and a questions and answers section where we look to clear up some initial concerns and questions regarding this change.






I would like to hear what you intend to trade skill to different factions?
I have max skills in trade and do not think it's okay if I have to retrine my my skills again after I get a lot of wasted time on my skill as a trainer now .. I will not think is ok ..

is this a problem for us who have maxet out tradeskills?

Ares Splinter
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#751 - 2016-09-01 06:47:15 UTC
Kitosa Hinoyosha wrote:
Ok now eve jumps on the downwards spiral that all games go through on their way out the door...free to play...get ready for eve to be sold to a 3rd person company and CS to go in the toilet...but no seriously wtf ccp...this isnt going to bring in more players because its free...gankers and greifers are still a problem...and now you make it to where they can be even more anonymous...thanks for making it easier for them...and while your at it why not just let CODE run your entire Customer service department and you guys just retire...how about you actually fix whats wrong with new eden instead of giving up on us and hoping the word *free* will save us...it wont...a sad day in new eden history when that goes live...
Agree 100%.

That's exactly the point and topic that CCP doesn't want to address which ISD / CCL has been locking and deleting for years now.

To pen a quote from Stan Lee - "Nuff said".


DMC
Josef Djugashvilis
#752 - 2016-09-01 06:48:40 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I can only assume that CCP are doing this as they are in severe financial straits so really I suspect I am leaving a sinking ship.

As I said in another post, any form of f2p and I shall retire from the game, unfortunately my sub does not expire until the middle of next year, then I am finished with Eve.

Take care all.


Technically it won't ever expire.

Shouldn't you wait to see what harm this actually causes before quitting?


As a commercial company CCP have the right and indeed must do whatever it considers best to survive.

Eve is a past-time for me but it is the means by which company employees make a living for themselves and their families.

I accept that CCP are doing this to survive as a company but it is a future I choose not to be a part of.

When my sub expires in the middle of next year I shall have been a subscriber for a little over ten years, it seems as good a time as any to retire.

Malcanis, f2p is the harm.

This is not a signature.

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#753 - 2016-09-01 06:56:46 UTC
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:
That is a bunch of awesome feedback here so far! Thank you.

As a quick reminder, if you disagree with something or if you think that something will be bad, please explain why you are thinking that. Knowing the reasons and your train of though is incredibly more helpful than just learning about the end result.

Ill nutshell it for you...

The good:

1) Allows current subs more flexibility with alts
2) Allows new players to experience eve without time constraints.
3) Provides subs with more targets.

The bad:
1) Subs keep out a certain type of player many here will find undesirable. While people say well you can just avoid them, ignore them, etc... its like avoiding the white elephant in the room... lots of white elephants. At some point, it becomes easier to just stop playing.

2) Lots of free players do not always mean lots more paying customers. In a F2P/P2W game about 50% of the players will never pay 2 play despite the fact they are at a significant disadvantage. The Clone model of eve doesnt put them at a significant disadvantage. They can still do everything paying players can, just in crappier ships with crappier mods.

3) I see alliances capitalizing on the free players and creating huge TIDI blobs of cheap fleets to take and hold space.

4) Free players really dont add a lot of value to the game but will suck up a massive amount of resources.

5) Welcome to The Market Chaos Era. This is going to have all kinds of weird effects on the market from a variety of angles.

6) No game that i have played that has started either A) in game advertising( despite you paying for it) or B) a free to play mode has done well after that point. At that point you are on a slippery slope and about to lose your footing.

7) Hi! im Roenok and i have 782 Alt Alpha Clone accounts!

8) You, CCP, claims that support will not be affected. But we know thats not true. There are only two paths support can take with this and both of them hurt sub players. The first is that we have to wait stupidly long for our tickets to make it through a constantly backlogged system because of all the Alpha scrubs filing support tickets for stupid stuff. The Second is that CCP hires more support staff. Guess who is paying for that support staff? Sub players. So we either get shittier service or we provide welfare support for free players.

9) Keeping in line with point #8, taking revenue to spend on more support staff for free players also takes money from CCP staff to develop the game.

10) F2P players are going to crowd sub players out of high sec. They are going to suck up most of the resources in high sec while contributing very little to game play. High sec subs are going to get tired of this and do one of two things. One, they are going to move to low sec or null... which is great. Or they are going to unsub and go play something else where they dont have pay to compete with thousands of free players.

11) We are going to have the same tolerance of free players as we do bots, afk miners/ratters, and other undesirables. We are going to try to kill them to make them go away until they become to frustrating to deal with and then we are going to go away.

12) Honestly we would rather you spend more time on making eve awesome and less time on generating revenue. We have bugs that havent been fixed for months. You guys are fixing things that arent broken ( module tieracide) while neglecting things that we hate ( Fozziesov, SBU sov, Pos bash Sov). We ask for the game to have more entertaining PVE and your answer to that is super rats that will WTFOWN you faster than a cap hot drop. Your answer to everything the last few years is to either nerf it or dumb it down.

The only good thing ive seen in updates these last couple of years are ship rebalancing and possibly new structures but im still reserving judgement on those. Before you start trying to get new subs, try to keep the ones you got.

You want an answer to the trial BS... here it is:

1) Set up a free to play server that is separate from TQ.
2) No restrictions on this server
3) No customer support for this server. You want customer support you have to pay for it.
4) No plexes or skill injectors on this server.
5) The server is wiped clean every 6 months.
6) At any time you may transfer your character and your assets to TQ with your character in its current state. The cost of this transfer is that you buy a 1 month sub plus $5 transfer fee. The transfer fee is waived with a 3 month sub or more.

Play your heart out free player. When your sick of being reset, come join us on TQ. Otherwise take all the time you need to learn game mechanics. You could also leave the trial up on TQ as is and give people that option.

Ive been playing MMOs for 20 years. My first was a text based browser game on dial up. Ive player MMOs from EA, Blizzard, Atari, Trion Worlds, Big Point, Aeria, Kabam, Rockyou, Plarium, Machine Zone, and a host of other developers i cant remember atm, some of which have been defunct for years. And i can tell you from experience... going down this road is never good for the developer nor the paying customer.

But dont take my word for it.... ill quote this post and " i told you so" in a couple of years.

Agree 100%.

DMC
BuntCakez
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#754 - 2016-09-01 07:08:09 UTC
You know, for a game whos community almost prides itself on the good old HTFU mentality... most people who are responding negatively to this are just whining that the game might change.

God forbid some of them might consider adapting to the change or even thinking about how they can profit from it, oh no, they are all like "i liked it the way it was before, and even though the changes arent in for another 2 months im gonna cry about it on the forums".

Honestly guys, get your **** together and wait for the feature to come out. This thread is best used to explain what you want to be changed about the current ideas CCP have proposed, and if you are constructive, they will look at your feedback and implement the necessary changes.

So get off the waaahmbulance and HTFU.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#755 - 2016-09-01 07:17:33 UTC
IcewaterKat wrote:
So the decision for free to play means end of life, like it does for every other game that goes that route.

Wanna be top dog, well pay to win is the way to go. I hate PTW games, it's just pathetic. So does this mean that EVE is turning into FarmVille? Obviously not, but I can see Alpha corps kicking more butt than paying customers.

There is no long any point for casual players to pay EVE any more, unless they just have to fly a tech 2 ship.

I see that any skill that an Alpha Clone can use symbolizes 'nerfed' skills. A lot of those level 4 skills are quite powerful and Level 5 anything is just overkill for what is allowed.

The level of irresponsible griefing that actual paid players can and some most certainly will without consequence, will exceed the level of what CCP will expect. You know we all surprise you with what we pull off already, if we can use it as an exploit for profit or revenge, it will be done with the skills that will surpass expectation.

__TL;DR__

I'm not mad. Nope. not yet. I'll wait until November for that.

I'm disappointed.

Not once was an attempt made to lower the price of subscriptions to try to encourage new players to come to Eve.

Truly disappointed and a bit ashamed that I pay to play EVE Online.

Yeah, agree 100%. Especially after 8+ years of paying sub.

Ugh


DMC
Lhiara Longrifle
Les Mineurs Galactiques
#756 - 2016-09-01 07:19:27 UTC
hi there

i don't know if this as been anwser already but will adk anyway.

I read the page on clone state ... but did not see this question
My step brother was a very old player ( subcribed 1 month after the game came out ) and had to stop playing due to lack of time playing and has about 300 M Sp to his character.

1) will he lose is SP because he no longer subscribe?
2) when a player unsbcribe but have a long list on his train queue ( 360 day Worth of skill to train) does the training stop ( pre clone state patch)
2a) after clone state patch will the training stop because he have omega state skill?
3) if he would to resubscribe will he be exactly the same as he left it ( isk, ship, implant) ?

pending on answer i may have more later on

later
Luscius Uta
#757 - 2016-09-01 07:20:11 UTC
I used these forums previously to rant how a subscription-based model should be a thing of the past. These changes are good and I predict they will increase numbers of average logged in users significantly, although they will probably also raise PLEX prices since not everyone will need to have omega clone on all of their alts.
Still, few things left me confused.

Why all races get Weapon disruption 3? I would rather want CPU and Power Grid Management 5 on an alpha clone since they are crucial fitting skills.

CCP Seagull said that alpha clones train skills at "slightly slower rate", yet one of the images in the blog shows 29 days of traning for Hull Upgrades V. That is not slightly slower but drastically slower. Having somewhere between 50% and 75% of the normal traning speed would be much more appropriate.

I noticed the lack of PI skills on alpha clones, does this means that all my colonies will stop producing resources once my clone goes into alpha state? If not, will I be able to use planetary launches and customs offices?

Similarly, will I be able to update my market orders if I have more market orders than allowed on an alpha clone? If yes, alpha clones might be popular for station traders who rarely undock and have little need to train new skills.

Personally, I would prefer more if alpha clones had no restriction on ships they can board and modules they can use, but could not train skills, could not place or update non-immediate market orders, could not start any industry jobs and planetary processes, basically nerfing most ways of passive income. Also putting a limit on how many alpha clones you can have logged in simultaneously might be in order. Nevertheless, this is still million times better than the current model where I couldn't log in the game at all or even post on this forum if my subscription ran out.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#758 - 2016-09-01 07:21:57 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
IcewaterKat wrote:
So the decision for free to play means end of life, like it does for every other game that goes that route.

Wanna be top dog, well pay to win is the way to go. I hate PTW games, it's just pathetic. So does this mean that EVE is turning into FarmVille? Obviously not, but I can see Alpha corps kicking more butt than paying customers.

There is no long any point for casual players to pay EVE any more, unless they just have to fly a tech 2 ship.

I see that any skill that an Alpha Clone can use symbolizes 'nerfed' skills. A lot of those level 4 skills are quite powerful and Level 5 anything is just overkill for what is allowed.

The level of irresponsible griefing that actual paid players can and some most certainly will without consequence, will exceed the level of what CCP will expect. You know we all surprise you with what we pull off already, if we can use it as an exploit for profit or revenge, it will be done with the skills that will surpass expectation.

__TL;DR__

I'm not mad. Nope. not yet. I'll wait until November for that.

I'm disappointed.

Not once was an attempt made to lower the price of subscriptions to try to encourage new players to come to Eve.

Truly disappointed and a bit ashamed that I pay to play EVE Online.

Yeah, agree 100%. Especially after 8+ years of paying sub.

Ugh


DMC


Has the price of a sub gone up? No. Has there been inflation? Yes? So the real cost of a subscription has gone down. An inflation adjusted subscription price is $19.55, stop whining like a bunch of pussies.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Cmdr Clawhammer
RHP Mining Company
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#759 - 2016-09-01 07:24:47 UTC
I have an secound account with 3 characters. All of them are skilled for planetary interaction (And nothing elese happens here). Can i still use and manage my pi with this account in alpha state? Thanks for the information.
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#760 - 2016-09-01 07:27:45 UTC
Lhiara Longrifle wrote:
hi there

i don't know if this as been anwser already but will adk anyway.

I read the page on clone state ... but did not see this question
My step brother was a very old player ( subcribed 1 month after the game came out ) and had to stop playing due to lack of time playing and has about 300 M Sp to his character.

1) will he lose is SP because he no longer subscribe?
2) when a player unsbcribe but have a long list on his train queue ( 360 day Worth of skill to train) does the training stop ( pre clone state patch)
2a) after clone state patch will the training stop because he have omega state skill?
3) if he would to resubscribe will he be exactly the same as he left it ( isk, ship, implant) ?

pending on answer i may have more later on

later

1. No
2. Yes with the end of the subscription
3. Jep but he may have to adapt because a lot of things changed especially in the Capital sector.