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Dev Blog: Introducing Clone States & the Future of Access to EVE

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Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#541 - 2016-08-31 21:26:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenrailae
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:


Personally, I'd open up Battleships to Alphas as well so they can get in on the Incursion Communities. Big smile


thats what the economy needs armys of alpha alts blitzing incursions




yeah I totally didn't say that. Quote properly ya bad.



EDIT:


Quote:
Screw incursions, I'd consider it just so more wild battle ships would appear in low sec lol. Tired of all those damned frigates. Like Zubat I tell ya!



This is what I said.


And yeah, the whole T1 battleship with t1 gear would definitely rock incursions world..... Roll

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
May'n Nome
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#542 - 2016-08-31 21:26:27 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:


Personally, I'd open up Battleships to Alphas as well so they can get in on the Incursion Communities. Big smile


thats what the economy needs armys of alpha alts blitzing incursions



Ahem, already responded to this. Only been doing them about a week now and running the HQ sites with WTM.

"Threefold is the time's pace: the future comes not in haste, the present is gone arrow fast, eternally still remains the past."
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#543 - 2016-08-31 21:27:02 UTC
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:

2) Lots of free players do not always mean lots more paying customers. In a F2P/P2W game about 50% of the players will never pay 2 play despite the fact they are at a significant disadvantage. The Clone model of eve doesnt put them at a significant disadvantage. They can still do everything paying players can, just in crappier ships with crappier mods.


Sooo...they can't do everything a paying player can. Can they use a cloak for a variety of reasons? No. Can they light a cyno? No. Can they use capitals? No. Can they invent T2 modules and the like? No.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Titus Cole Dooley
Fuel Blocks for Dante
#544 - 2016-08-31 21:29:55 UTC
Just about all of the the stuff CCP is coming up with is just bumming me out.
win189
Little Sky Cats
#545 - 2016-08-31 21:30:42 UTC
i think there should be Some Exceptions to this like for example if a Alpha logs in and a omega logs in it will allow but it will only restrict one alpha at a time

Q will alphas be allowed on test server
A CCP you say no to this ------- i have a personal issue with that as it would allow people to actually learn the game and enjoy it instead of being overwhelmed just limit them to what they can do in the normal server

the most common thing for eve online is new players are being overwhelmed with how much is in eve online they are attracted to it by the battles and PR that the big 8 Alliances have been doing these past many years but not being able to partake in some cause it takes 2-4 days to just get in some setups

also for throws just coming back if your in a ship like a titan or super that is undocked with alpha status just have all modules go offline but make it were it can jump with the same jump settings as was trained
ie if you have jump cal 5 fuel con 5 you should be able to use that benefit but only for throws assigned ships
not allowing the use of any offensive module other then cloaking (if cloaking skill is trained to 5)

Querns wrote:
Regarding this question in the Q&A:

Quote:

Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?


It seems pretty obvious that you should NOT allow multiple alpha clones to be logged in simultaneously from one computer. Allowing this means that I, with a sufficiently powerful computer, can spin up a functionally unlimited number of characters with Mining Frigate trained, and use them to mine unburdened by the PLEX cost that would apply today. This would have the effect of reducing the cost of minerals to, functionally, zero, completely ruining a moderately healthy style of PVE.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#546 - 2016-08-31 21:30:46 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
You'll have to make it so all alpha skills are unable to be extracted, otherwise it will be very easy to milk free SP at no cost.

And by the way, I don't think this will influence subscribers unless it is matched by an improvement in the NPE.

This is basically just the same as the free trial in many respects, and so I wouldn't expect any major changes in subscriber numbers as a result. The possibilities for exploitation though are great if this isn't implemented carefully.


Nope.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#547 - 2016-08-31 21:31:08 UTC
May'n Nome wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
May'n Nome wrote:
Personally, I'd open up Battleships to Alphas as well so they can get in on the Incursion Communities. Big smile

They can get into Incursion communities by the Incursion communities actually doing the smaller sites as well, because they are meant for newer, younger, less experienced players. New players do not need to be introduced to the elite BS fleets right away -- let alone that no Incursion FC would take in a newbie in his badly skilled BS.

My biggest gripe with this is that CCP has not done anything to improve the NPE, they do nothing to promote E-Uni and actually throw new players into E-Uni instead of leaving them in rookie corps. With this F2P plan, they just hope for a BNI 2.0 and throw new players into the same environment like the last time. They should have improved the NPE with the countless suggestions first and then introduced these Clone states. That would have been the proper order and it would have made a lot more sense with their focus on new players that looks more like a farce.



I've only been running Incursions for the past week or so and have been doing HQ sites...so pardon my newbie-ness there.

I believe they said the NPE is getting an update in the same patch for one. Second the E-Uni can do a good job advertising itself via word of mouth and the in game help channel. I myself having been through E-Uni will spread the word myself.

Then they should have released the dev blog on NPE first and not like a sorry excuse after this one to justify this one. Word on the street has only so much reach. Best example is the very destructive Burn Jita event: CCP advertises for it, multiple news outlets advertise it, yet there are still hundreds of people dying to it, who do not know at all what's going on. That goes for the majority of the game population and word on the street won't reach them.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
motie one
Secret Passage
#548 - 2016-08-31 21:31:28 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
tasman devil wrote:
Fine, great.

Team Size Matters wrote:
The CSM heard about this concept just a couple days ago--basically the same time you are, but we are communicating now specifically so that they can help gather your feedback and bring it to us for the summit in September, where we will be flying out the entire CSM for the first time. If you would rather talk to us directly, the forum thread for this blog is a great place to start and we will be opening up other channels, such as a Reddit AMA, in the coming weeks.


But do please tell me why the hell do we vote for CSM again when they aren't even notified of this.

I mean English may be a second language to me but it does seem to me that you neither thought nor really wanted to bring in on such a game-changing decision.

Also they are now relegated to "ticket counters". Nice work!



There are game decisions, where their in game experience is invaluable. This is something where the CSM shines.
Then There are business decisions where they can't add ****. This is for CCP managers CCP accountants CCP marketing and CcP directors to talk about

Which type of decision do you think this is!
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#549 - 2016-08-31 21:32:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
You'll have to make it so all alpha skills are unable to be extracted, otherwise it will be very easy to milk free SP at no cost.

And by the way, I don't think this will influence subscribers unless it is matched by an improvement in the NPE.

This is basically just the same as the free trial in many respects, and so I wouldn't expect any major changes in subscriber numbers as a result. The possibilities for exploitation though are great if this isn't implemented carefully.



the minimal amount of sp you have to have prior to using extraction is 5.5 million SPs

in the dev blog they say that fully maxed in skillz alpha should have around 5mill SPs which is somewhere around 500k SPs short to use an extractor anyway

so officially stating "alphas cannot use extractor" would be imo kinda redundant

[other thing being old toons with advanced skills trained that turned alpha and wish to extract SPs from "locked out" skillz]

1. Get a 5mil SP character who's SP is not allocated in the Alpha skills.

2. Revert to an Alpha clone.

3. Train all the Alpha skills to maximum of 5mil SP worth.

4. Subscribe for a month and extract all the Alpha skill SP.

5. Revert to an Alpha clone.

6. Train all the Alpha skills to maximum of 5mil SP worth.

7. Subscribe for a month and extract all the Alpha skill SP.

8. Repeat for free SP.

It doesn't take much for someone to work this out and then scale it onto hundreds of accounts.
beakerax
Pator Tech School
#550 - 2016-08-31 21:32:51 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
This is straight up pay to win. A paid account in a T1 frigate will stand an excellent chance against 2-3 free accounts. At least let all the support skills for frigates be trained up, even if you restrict the actual ship skills themselves.
-Liang
(hi Liang)
Egsise wrote:
What do we have now? A 30 day trial and with buddy invite which everyone uses it's 30day trial + 60day gametime and you can do ANYTHING.

Nerf that to T1 frigs and modules that lasts for the rest of their lives.
Don't let the noobs do any of the cool stuff unless they pay the sub.
I am concerned about this. The skill restrictions are a good idea to prevent abuse and provide a motivation to sub, but playing on a free account still needs to be rewarding and provide progression. If not, people aren't going to upgrade – they will just quit.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#551 - 2016-08-31 21:33:21 UTC
I think alphas should be able to fly the Gnosis to give them a taste for larger ships. Availability is limited so I can't see it becoming a major balance issue.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#552 - 2016-08-31 21:33:23 UTC
Rihanna Obama wrote:
Quote:
The CSM heard about this concept just a couple days ago--basically the same time you are

So the CSM's there for...what reason exactly?

The Powerblock Information Service has no say when there is big money at stake. Did CCP care about CSM feedback on skill injectors?
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#553 - 2016-08-31 21:35:40 UTC
Quote:
Why is Leadership 3 an Alpha clone skill?

Probably because it's a prerequisite for Security Connections, which is also on the Alpha skill list in the dev blog.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#554 - 2016-08-31 21:37:35 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Quote:
Why is Leadership 3 an Alpha clone skill?

Probably because it's a prerequisite for Security Connections, which is also on the Alpha skill list in the dev blog.



Were you guys just bored and wanted a new Threadnaught to occupy your time?

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#555 - 2016-08-31 21:40:39 UTC
TheVirus32 wrote:

- Flexible plex prices, AKA: the more the demand the more the prices get closer to regular 1 month membership prices, to ensure that plex doesn't go through the roof (and that's coming from someone who never plexes, because I like keeping my iskies)


Uhhh...why? Are Alpha's going to be buying PLEX? For what purpose? If anything they'll likely be selling them to get ISK.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Crack Spawn
Doomheim
#556 - 2016-08-31 21:42:06 UTC
CCP have run out of features/ideas its that simple. CCP are also running out of subscribers.

Spent time on the Bounty System
Spent time of War Decing

Skills based system for spying/infiltrating

So many things that CCP could do that's new and with substance but no ccp want to make pretty Fleet bonuses affects, or awesome fireworks on a ship go boom. But introduce new cool thing naaa its easier to take stuff away from us.

This is a stupid idea CCP
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#557 - 2016-08-31 21:42:30 UTC
Ocean Ormand wrote:
Just curious - the punishment for botting is banning - but now its free to make accounts - so ccp would have to ban the ip. But I think (I may be wrong) that you can manipulate your ip address if you want. So CCP just effectively threw in the towel on botting - a botter gets banned - he just keeps making new accounts - since there is no cost or punishment to him there is no disincentive to botting.


ISPs have addresses in blocks. Normally, when you connect to your ISP its dynamic meaning the last few numbers will change each time you login to the ISP depending on what address is available. So to effectively ban your IP, they have to ban a whole block. Banning a block can possibly lead to banning other players unintentionally.

Thats how it use to be but i havent honestly messed with IP addresses and all that tech stuff for over 5 years, so it may of changed.
Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
#558 - 2016-08-31 21:42:36 UTC
win189 wrote:
i think there should be Some Exceptions to this like for example if a Alpha logs in and a omega logs in it will allow but it will only restrict one alpha at a time



can't upvote it enought! :)

Moac Tor wrote:
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
You'll have to make it so all alpha skills are unable to be extracted, otherwise it will be very easy to milk free SP at no cost.

And by the way, I don't think this will influence subscribers unless it is matched by an improvement in the NPE.

This is basically just the same as the free trial in many respects, and so I wouldn't expect any major changes in subscriber numbers as a result. The possibilities for exploitation though are great if this isn't implemented carefully.



the minimal amount of sp you have to have prior to using extraction is 5.5 million SPs

in the dev blog they say that fully maxed in skillz alpha should have around 5mill SPs which is somewhere around 500k SPs short to use an extractor anyway

so officially stating "alphas cannot use extractor" would be imo kinda redundant

[other thing being old toons with advanced skills trained that turned alpha and wish to extract SPs from "locked out" skillz]

1. Get a 5mil SP character who's SP is not allocated in the Alpha skills.

2. Revert to an Alpha clone.

3. Train all the Alpha skills to maximum of 5mil SP worth.

4. Subscribe for a month and extract all the Alpha skill SP.

5. Revert to an Alpha clone.

6. Train all the Alpha skills to maximum of 5mil SP worth.

7. Subscribe for a month and extract all the Alpha skill SP.

8. Repeat for free SP.

It doesn't take much for someone to work this out and then scale it onto hundreds of accounts.


hmmmm I have to admitt I haven't thought about it this way

but then to be honest the amount of time needed for each cycle makes it feels [to me] quite ineffective - at least compared to currently existing SP farms
Juvenius Drakonius
#559 - 2016-08-31 21:42:53 UTC
Many questions here this is a BIG SHIFT in Game Mechanics, Will Alfa clones ...

Hava a ISK cap?
be able to make trades in station?
be used as spy alts in systems to monitor activity?
be able to sell and buy any items off the market?
Be able to join corps?
be able to make cynos?

This is too big of a change for a simple post in a blog/forum this the biggest game shift since capitals where introduced, this needs special attention.....please more info, more details

There is no shame in saying you don't know something, and there is no glory in keeping knolege to yourself.
Cinders Tekitsu
Eh Team
#560 - 2016-08-31 21:43:04 UTC
instead of pausing training because of an omega skill, skip it, and move down the list to the first alpha trainable skill and carry on. if you get to the end of the list with nothing trainable then pause it.
you could also bring back the old training queue for alphas (24 hour window)... forcing them to log in "every day" to continue their training. that alone might be enough to make it too inconvenient to create a 1 person fleet of 50 alpha clones