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Dev Blog: Introducing Clone States & the Future of Access to EVE

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Sky Marshal
State War Academy
Caldari State
#461 - 2016-08-31 20:00:57 UTC
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:
Introduce permadeath. Podded Alphas are permanently gone.
Remove the tech II ship and module restrictions. Up the skill cap.

Experience New Eden as a human among immortals. One play for a quarter.

Let's make EvE darker.


You played too much at One Life, didn't you ?
May'n Nome
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#462 - 2016-08-31 20:01:27 UTC
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
In other news, CCP has announced new "golden" ammos for each race!
Amarr - Conflag, Scorch, Gleam, Aurora
Caldari - Rage, Javelin, Fury, Precision
Gallente - Void, Null, Javelin, Spike
Minmatar - Hail, Barrage, Quake, Tremor

Just think: no longer will OGBs be the standard reason that someone lost a fight to you. It'll because you're subbed or "p2w". Squee!

-Liang

Ed: Gonna roll with Caldari being pure missiles and skip T2 drones entirely; the point should stand despite the mild inaccuracies. Thanks for pointing out the missing missiles (and drones).

You can't make an EVE-like game F2P without it being some flavor of P2W.

Anything passive and significant is a no-go, just asking to get farmed. Passive for a casual = active and massively parallel for someone more serious. Just ask the guy who ran 300 skill farming alts.

This game is a complex EVE-like browser game. Trying to explain it in a few words is a lot like trying to explain EVE in a few words. It has some design lessons which are very applicable to this topic.


OMG! ANOTHER PARDUSIAN! o7!

"Threefold is the time's pace: the future comes not in haste, the present is gone arrow fast, eternally still remains the past."
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#463 - 2016-08-31 20:01:47 UTC
CCP Manifest wrote:
The NPE is currently set to get an update at the same time.

http://reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/50hcpc/welcome_to_free_to_play_eve/d741gzt

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#464 - 2016-08-31 20:02:54 UTC
We've all noticed the drop in users over the last couple of years. This change could really save the game.

Congratulations on making the big move CCP. I think this is a really good idea. Big smile

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Cookie
Snakeoil Industries Ltd.
#465 - 2016-08-31 20:03:58 UTC
The more i think about it, the more concerns i have.

The goal is to get more players in.

With the free trial, you have some weeks free play, when that period doesn't convince the potential customer to subscribe, that alpha thing will not fix it.

It will most likely mostly be used by players who have already played for some time, who are already customers, maybe (weird idea) some even have multiple paid accounts, which now don't need to pay anymore, great idea.

There's also a 99% chance that the support ticket numbers skyrocket.
When i count in the disappointment long term players will spread through any social media you can imagine and the previous 'success' of games that switched to a p2w model ... well ... time will tell.



gf
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#466 - 2016-08-31 20:05:02 UTC
Zappity wrote:

PI skills are not included in the alpha list in the devblog.


The important question is, however, if you can submit the new extraction cycle into the PI colony or not without the skills if you have the colony already installed.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#467 - 2016-08-31 20:07:20 UTC
since this is a clone discussion.

i'd like to know when we will get final confirmation on what is happening to the "learner" implants. i mean hey dont avoid discussing whats going on in clone implant slots please.

are +1,2,3,4 and 5's being removed?

how will the Alpha and Omega states deal with said implants?
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#468 - 2016-08-31 20:07:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenrailae
With as restricted as these Alpha clones are..... are they really going to be effective? I mean there is a finite amount of SP that can be trained, and even at a reduced rate, 5m is going to cap out reasonably quickly.


Though I am immeasurably glad to see that these clones can't train anything really useful for the Game of Alts crowd, they still can't really train anything useful for the game either.


Also will they be engaging enough to keep people playing them?

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#469 - 2016-08-31 20:07:40 UTC
Carniflex wrote:
Zappity wrote:

PI skills are not included in the alpha list in the devblog.


The important question is, however, if you can submit the new extraction cycle into the PI colony or not without the skills if you have the colony already installed.



Being able to drop your subscription and continue to farm PI would not be a good thing
Titus Cole Dooley
Fuel Blocks for Dante
#470 - 2016-08-31 20:09:17 UTC
WOW CCP is just full of bad ideas. I vote NO.
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#471 - 2016-08-31 20:10:49 UTC
Smoke and self delusional mirrors.

Cost has never been the driving factor for new OR old player retention. This won't fix anything but it may very well ruin everything.

As usual, CCP ignores the root cause and tries to treat the symptom.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#472 - 2016-08-31 20:11:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Inevitable, and better implemented than it could have been.

I'll add my +1 to the limitation of alpha accounts in use - if you allow subbed players to log in an alpha account simultaneously, literally every subbed player in 0.0 or lowsec will be scouting themselves around with a free disposable scout, dualboxing suicide ewar frigates to every fight (be it a blocwar fleet engagement or a 1v1 on a gate), etc. Logging in an alpha account should prohibit us from logging in any other account, be it Alpha or Omega, unless you want to dive head first into a rabbit-hole.

Will Alphas be able to transfer ISK, direct trade or set up contracts?

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
#473 - 2016-08-31 20:11:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Syri Taneka
Mostly cool with this.

Two things:

1) Force Safety On for Alpha clones (should probably do this for newbies as well, but that's a different matter). This will protect us from gank fleets of freebees, and protect unaccustomed players from highsec griefing shenanigans.

2) Disallow Alpha accounts and Omega accounts being online simultaneously from the same computer/IP address. Because an obvious abuse of this new mechanic is alt scouts and freebee tackle.

(Yes I am intentionally spelling it FreeBee, as a reference to Goonswarm.)

ETA: If you can limit Alpha/Omega blocking to a single computer system that would be better. While it would still give devious players the option of running a free alt on a different PC, the bigger issue with blocking by IP is that it would prevent players from bringing in other members of the household on a free account to "wean" them on it.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#474 - 2016-08-31 20:11:34 UTC
Zappity wrote:
So what will beta clones be?


Do you think you will be able to upgrade to a Beta clone via an upgrade via Aur store

Upgrade to beta now - only $21 and you too will be able to fly Battlecrusiers.

BUY NOW and get a free upgrade so you to can use Tech 2 missiles
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#475 - 2016-08-31 20:12:05 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:


Honestly it might make more sense to remove SP entirely. The restrictions are mostly geared around industry and specific ships/modules they don't seem to want free players using. If they're going to go free to play, its better to get people into the game and make the extra content worth paying for.

-Liang


It is an option but I think it would be better if SP would be kept also for the free clones. It is an significant aspect of EVE, including the training offline part and as in my eyes the "free" account is kind of supposed to be just the new trial without time limit it would make sense to show more aspects of the game as it is.

Ofc this would also draw in many old players who are going to log in to see what is up and keeping the SP visible and giving a clear hint why some levels are locked might prevent some panic about "dude I had like 100 mil SP and where it is now".

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Titus Cole Dooley
Fuel Blocks for Dante
#476 - 2016-08-31 20:12:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Titus Cole Dooley
I would be ok with this if it was on the test server and NOT on TQ. YOU what to play the real eve you have to pay for it.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#477 - 2016-08-31 20:12:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
In other news, CCP has announced new "golden" ammos for each race!
Amarr - Conflag, Scorch, Gleam, Aurora
Caldari - Rage, Javelin, Fury, Precision
Gallente - Void, Null, Javelin, Spike
Minmatar - Hail, Barrage, Quake, Tremor

Just think: no longer will OGBs be the standard reason that someone lost a fight to you. It'll because you're subbed or "p2w". Squee!

-Liang

Ed: Gonna roll with Caldari being pure missiles and skip T2 drones entirely; the point should stand despite the mild inaccuracies. Thanks for pointing out the missing missiles (and drones).

You can't make an EVE-like game F2P without it being some flavor of P2W.

Anything passive and significant is a no-go, just asking to get farmed. Passive for a casual = active and massively parallel for someone more serious. Just ask the guy who ran 300 skill farming alts.

This game is a complex EVE-like browser game. Trying to explain it in a few words is a lot like trying to explain EVE in a few words. It has some design lessons which are very applicable to this topic.


I don't really agree. I don't feel that this design would be P2W:
- Remove SP entirely (effectively giving everyone "max skills")
- Use the entitlement system built on top of ship skins (time based and permanent) to create entitlements for ships and modules.
- Create a rotating free entitlement for the F2P people (Amarr week! Frigate week! Battleship week!).
- Sell entitlements on the aurum store, on the market (NPC seeded to be a giant ISK sink), and add them to the deadspace loot tables for faction NPCs.

The target would be that 4-5 ships with the right monthly entitlements should be equivalent to the price of a monthly account.

-Liang

Ed: The goal from that point would be to look for improving retention and driving players to the parts of the game that make money. Arguably FW would become part of the game that drives flat retention as a counter to the instance PVP that happens in so many other places.

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#478 - 2016-08-31 20:14:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Regan Rotineque
IOWA BANSHEE WROTE:

So could I put those 5 accounts on my 4 PC's, 1 mac and 3 Linux - I do have access to a NOC so they could all be separate ip's - I forgot the 3 laptops

Shucks - I guess I could only have 54 free pi alts


As I mentioned you put limits on the total amount of skills level you can have for PI which would in fact limit your ability to create lvl 3/4 PI products. Perhaps limit the skill to level 1 or 2 - that will limit extractors and other bits.

If you want 54 single log in PI alts - you have 4 pcs so 4 log ins at a time to harvest limited amounts of t1 PI items i say go for it, you are in the absolute minority of players. I can only imagine the hell of having to do that, but hey if that is your thing then so be it.

I am more concerned about the 54 free t2 fitted catalysts and thrasher throwaways. So i would support having limits on the ability to gank in high sec ie: your security can only be set to green.

CCP has to balance giving people a 'playable' experience and letting people try different things so that they want to play more and expand their personal empire with addons and subscriptions.
Higgs Foton
Mission And Mining Inc
#479 - 2016-08-31 20:15:29 UTC
A lot of players coming in who can fly T1 fitted T1 cruisers at max (keep in mind these people can also fly the Gnosis! That ship is going to be the top dog for alpha clones)? Seems like a lot of profit can be made for people who produce this stuff.

I have a fully researched venture BPO on one of my accounts. I smell PROFIT. :)
Troubled Basterd
Island Life Capitalist Bastards
#480 - 2016-08-31 20:16:00 UTC
The current plex prices are making me think about quiting Eve. I'm afraid a big increas of alpha toons will create a sizeable demand for plex.

Higher demand = higher plex prices.

When you made plex a payment for method for other stuf than game time the plex price has gone up (giving the rich an isk sink).

Pleas figure out a model where the plex prices go down. That will make a lot of ppl (or secondairy acounts) return.




Woohoo, infinit crashing toons for wh space \o/ TwistedTwistedTwisted

Fly save,

Tb.

(spelling control aint working, sorry)