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Dev Blog: Introducing Clone States & the Future of Access to EVE

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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#381 - 2016-08-31 18:33:27 UTC
Escuro
SUN PRAISING INTENSIFIES
DarkSide.
#382 - 2016-08-31 18:33:55 UTC
Awesome update!

A lot of friends will surely try EVE.

Also, limit the clients to N omega + 1 Alfa
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#383 - 2016-08-31 18:35:09 UTC
This all seems pretty reasonable and responsible. CCP has to be able to compete with all the F2P games out there and this proposal allows them to do that while not harming the fabric of the Eve universe.

Sorry fellow bittervets but, there's just nothing here that a reasonable person would find objectionable. Let's give it a shot and see how it all plays out.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#384 - 2016-08-31 18:36:55 UTC
Algarion Getz wrote:
I bet it wont even take 24h until someone has written a bot that automatically creates new characters in bulk and then mines, ganks, etc with them. When the characters get banned, the bot will just reconnect for new IP, modify the computers hardware ID and start the process again.


At that level of sophistication, your 'bot' may be Turing-ready. :P
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#385 - 2016-08-31 18:37:05 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Neva Second wrote:
In an effort to increase players I think its a great concept, if I hadn't purchased a 6mo subscription out of the gate I would not still be playing years later. Eve takes time to wrap your head around and see how the game differs from other MMO's. Having time to train up some basic skills and experience it without hitting your wallet is a good thing for everyone.

*However: As a bitter vet who uses capitals pretty frequently I would love CCP to reconsider the Cyno skill exclusion. Many players like me have 1-2 accounts with nothing but cyno alts to help move their caps around the board.




So with free accounts you could have 30 or 40 Cyno alts logged off in every system in your region.

On the bright side hunting capitals would become a thing again ... although much much easier

The only way is that these 30-40 accounts would have to first be subscribed and then reactivated every time you want to use them to cyno. In that case, so what?


This was a reply to someone wanting to add Cyno to Alpha skill list - in which case free cyno alt everywhere
Grapez
Moviintti
#386 - 2016-08-31 18:37:40 UTC
I don't get the "CCP needs to do this to survive" argument. CCP survived for years at the same (or lower!) PCU than now. And the answer is to give the game away for free? What? If people can't get hooked after a trail period, then they can't get hooked...
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#387 - 2016-08-31 18:38:55 UTC
Grapez wrote:
The reason for this change, the ONLY REASON, is to get more players. It's clear that the PCU number will increase, but CCP won't get money from all of those.

This is dumb, IMO. The max daily PCU right now is about 25k. That's more than when I started this account over 10 years ago, and back then I certainly didn't get the feeling that Eve was empty or needed more players.

If CCP wants there to be more players, then focus on making the game better. Loading up Eve (and your petition queues...) with players who aren't even paying you is straight stupid.


Unless people decide to switch over to Omega and start paying to access the stuff they can't as an Alpha. This mitigates the complaint that people pay for a sub just to skill up basic skills. Now that can largely be done without paying, and if a player decides he wants to have access to other parts of the game in terms of skills, and the in game items those skills engender....then money for CCP and more players for us.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Danixex Gosu
Shiva
Northern Coalition.
#388 - 2016-08-31 18:43:41 UTC
allowing people unlimited mining accounts seems ridiculous.


for the cost of one plexed account with orca skills, a player could also have unlimited Alpha clones mining in a venture while not suffering the cost of going back to a station, which is usually the problem for small hold sized ships such as the venture.

This hardly seems to be the intent of this update and i feel the mining side of alpha clones should be looked at more closely.


i made a thread about this in general discussion, i feel it is a strong enough part to warrant such a thing.
Soltys
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#389 - 2016-08-31 18:43:43 UTC
So F2P + premium subscription. Typical model

TBH

This is quite good, as long as the constraints listed in devblog are held in place (slower learning, 5m max, only subset available, etc.).

Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl
Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#390 - 2016-08-31 18:44:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Zockhandra
Q: What happens if my subscription ends while I'm logged in, will I be converted to Alpha in the middle of a fight?

A: In these cases, you will remain an Omega until the next time you log out. We won't ever turn skills off during the middle of a session.

Quote from CCP Announcement


Sorry, But does this mean that if your clone gets turned to alpha, then you cant fly any of the ships you spent 7 years training for?
If that is the case, that is an extremely unrewarding system and (personally) ridiculously unfair to your Veteren pilots (who have funded you for more than 10 years).

If you cannot use the skills you have trained after x amount of years, whats the point in paying to aqquire them? Theres no progression there.


Consider a player returning after say a 4 month inactivity. Now they cannot fly their ratting mission battleships and make enough money to buy a plex? Thats super restrictive.

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.
Kirin Amatin
Kirin Beverages Corporation
#391 - 2016-08-31 18:44:50 UTC
There are a few ways this can be easily abused, mostly connected to hordes of cheap/free accounts.


  • Support Griffin wings for PvP... keep a small stable (~10ish) logged in, bring them in to the fight as you see fit
  • If I'm reading the skill list correctly, you can still put together a fairly decent ganking catalyst (or ganking vexor) army on these free accounts
  • For larger alliances, it's completely free to have a spare account logged into each system. (in a POS or citadel). Watching local... (partly mitigated by the lack of cloaking)
  • Alternating between paying and non-paying for certain forms of trader alts seems like it will be a thing... (even more than it is now, since you're not completely shut out of the account)


I'm not sure if locking simultaneous logins is a good idea... because Omega clones "degrade" to Alpha state when not paid. The frustration from that for someone coming back might be a bit much. For someone dedicated to getting around the problem, there are always ways. (as well as causing silly issues for anyone behind certain forms of NATting router)
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#392 - 2016-08-31 18:45:35 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Neva Second wrote:
In an effort to increase players I think its a great concept, if I hadn't purchased a 6mo subscription out of the gate I would not still be playing years later. Eve takes time to wrap your head around and see how the game differs from other MMO's. Having time to train up some basic skills and experience it without hitting your wallet is a good thing for everyone.

*However: As a bitter vet who uses capitals pretty frequently I would love CCP to reconsider the Cyno skill exclusion. Many players like me have 1-2 accounts with nothing but cyno alts to help move their caps around the board.




So with free accounts you could have 30 or 40 Cyno alts logged off in every system in your region.

On the bright side hunting capitals would become a thing again ... although much much easier

Alpha can't use cyno.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Kirin Amatin
Kirin Beverages Corporation
#393 - 2016-08-31 18:46:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirin Amatin
Zockhandra wrote:

Sorry, But does this mean that if your clone gets turned to alpha, then you cant fly any of the ships you spent 7 years training for?
If that is the case, that is an extremely unrewarding system and (personally) ridiculously unfair to your Veteren pilots (who have funded you for more than 10 years).

If you cannot use the skills you have trained after x amount of years, whats the point in paying to aqquire them? Theres no progression there.


If you don't want to pay for access to those skills, you don't keep access to those skills. You start paying again, you get your skills back... how is this hard to understand?

But unlike currently, you can log in and tell the new corp members that things were so much better "back in my day" without necessarily paying for the privilege.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#394 - 2016-08-31 18:46:53 UTC
Zockhandra wrote:
Q: What happens if my subscription ends while I'm logged in, will I be converted to Alpha in the middle of a fight?

A: In these cases, you will remain an Omega until the next time you log out. We won't ever turn skills off during the middle of a session.

Quote from CCP Announcement


Sorry, But does this mean that if your clone gets turned to alpha, then you cant fly any of the ships you spent 7 years training for?
If that is the case, that is an extremely unrewarding system and (personally) ridiculously unfair to your Veteren pilots (who have funded you for more than 10 years).

If you cannot use the skills you have trained after x amount of years, whats the point in paying to aqquire them? Theres no progression there.


Just pay your sub and enjoy your advantage over the Alpha clones and stop whining.

Jesus, these people wanting the consumer surplus for free...you are just ridiculous.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
ugh zug
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#395 - 2016-08-31 18:47:22 UTC
there should be a limit to how many active alpha accounts one can log into on one machine like no more than 3.

cynosural field theory, considering most capital pilots have a second account for lighting cynos i doubt very much ccp is willing to enable payers to let go of this. if they did add it however, i would be happy to have extra cyno alt accounts to allow all my paying accounts to have capitals.

ISK transfers from alpha accounts and to alpha accounts should be disabled.

Want me to shut up? Remove content from my post,1B. Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.
Danixex Gosu
Shiva
Northern Coalition.
#396 - 2016-08-31 18:49:15 UTC
ugh zug wrote:
there should be a limit to how many active alpha accounts one can log into on one machine like no more than 3.

cynosural field theory, considering most capital pilots have a second account for lighting cynos i doubt very much ccp is willing to enable payers to let go of this. if they did add it however, i would be happy to have extra cyno alt accounts to allow all my paying accounts to have capitals.

ISK transfers from alpha accounts and to alpha accounts should be disabled.



not exactly sure what you're trying to say, but alpha clones wont be able to light cynos.
Captain Campion
Campion Corp.
#397 - 2016-08-31 18:49:26 UTC
It strikes me as odd that you need a separate account for each alt - try remembering all that login info?! - rather than just being able to make all these on one account and train them all - but when you make a subscription just choose which character it applies to.

Is there a good reason for this? To me it just seems bad.

in b4 someone says "to me you just seem bad". <3 eve
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#398 - 2016-08-31 18:49:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Kirin Amatin wrote:
There are a few ways this can be easily abused, mostly connected to hordes of cheap/free accounts.


  • Support Griffin wings for PvP... keep a small stable (~10ish) logged in, bring them in to the fight as you see fit
  • If I'm reading the skill list correctly, you can still put together a fairly decent ganking catalyst (or ganking vexor) army on these free accounts
  • For larger alliances, it's completely free to have a spare account logged into each system. (in a POS or citadel). Watching local... (partly mitigated by the lack of cloaking)
  • Alternating between paying and non-paying for certain forms of trader alts seems like it will be a thing... (even more than it is now, since you're not completely shut out of the account)


I'm not sure if locking simultaneous logins is a good idea... because Omega clones "degrade" to Alpha state when not paid. The frustration from that for someone coming back might be a bit much. For someone dedicated to getting around the problem, there are always ways. (as well as causing silly issues for anyone behind certain forms of NATting router)


Which can be solved by limiting simultaneous logins. This is still up in the air....if you read the Devblog.

Edit:

And yeah, there are always ways around the EULA, so what. The idea that it will be wide spread is a bit of a stretch if you ask me.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#399 - 2016-08-31 18:50:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Zockhandra
Teckos Pech wrote:
Zockhandra wrote:
Q: What happens if my subscription ends while I'm logged in, will I be converted to Alpha in the middle of a fight?

A: In these cases, you will remain an Omega until the next time you log out. We won't ever turn skills off during the middle of a session.

Quote from CCP Announcement


Sorry, But does this mean that if your clone gets turned to alpha, then you cant fly any of the ships you spent 7 years training for?
If that is the case, that is an extremely unrewarding system and (personally) ridiculously unfair to your Veteren pilots (who have funded you for more than 10 years).

If you cannot use the skills you have trained after x amount of years, whats the point in paying to aqquire them? Theres no progression there.


Just pay your sub and enjoy your advantage over the Alpha clones and stop whining.

Jesus, these people wanting the consumer surplus for free...you are just ridiculous.




Okay, so what happens when you need to evac your stuff from a pos/Citadel. But then you cant fly your x ship.

Or your in a super, but only you cant jump and you cant pay a sub because x problem? You now cant jump or defend yourself, you have to stay logged off because suddenly your clone decides "oops im actually super dumb"

Alternatively, your a new player who can no longer afford to sub after 4 months of subbed play, now all your skills are gone and your back to square one?

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#400 - 2016-08-31 18:51:29 UTC
Zockhandra wrote:
Q: What happens if my subscription ends while I'm logged in, will I be converted to Alpha in the middle of a fight?

A: In these cases, you will remain an Omega until the next time you log out. We won't ever turn skills off during the middle of a session.

Quote from CCP Announcement


Sorry, But does this mean that if your clone gets turned to alpha, then you cant fly any of the ships you spent 7 years training for?
If that is the case, that is an extremely unrewarding system and (personally) ridiculously unfair to your Veteren pilots (who have funded you for more than 10 years).

If you cannot use the skills you have trained after x amount of years, whats the point in paying to aqquire them? Theres no progression there.


Consider a player returning after say a 4 month inactivity. Now they cannot fly their ratting mission battleships and make enough money to buy a plex? Thats super restrictive.

At the moment that player can't even log into the game, let alone fly those ships.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.