Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I play on SISI a lot. No other place do I see such a diverse range of ships and fits on display but there is one thing that really REALLY causes my brow to frown. This the concept of the oversized afterburner. The ships which can fit them tend to be able to run them without completely breaking their fits - they can fit a full rack of guns and a modest tank while maintaining the benefits of the extra mass and speed. We're not necessarily talking about reaching MWD speeds, we're talking about reaching 2 or 3x the speed of an appropriately sized AB and not having any proper way to shut these off on conventional fits which struggle to fit all their guns and tank without one fitting module/rig/implant - the way Rise himself said it was intended to be.

At least I'd like to experience a version of the game that doesn't allow oversized AB to be used at all. There's a reason why the modding scene is so massive, why people customise the experience to suit their preferences. This extends to MMOs now as well with some games like runescape and WoW having alternative servers that run customised code so that people can play the game in a certain way, including but not limited to finally fixing broken abilities, weapons or classes that the developers refuse to fix (because according to Blizzard, being OP or being the underdog with hardcoded performance statistics to back it up is a thing).

I would really like to see;

1. The 10mn AB become 125 pg.
2. The 100mn AB become 1250 pg.

I feel like these simple things would fix many of the issues with b.s. fits that can power around the grid. People tell me these fits are hyper-specialised well I don't believe that's true. I don't have the analytics tools to scan every single lossmail out there to see how many of them there are. It would be an oxymoron to use a killboard to check that anyway, since the whole point is that the problem is those oversized AB fits which don't die, not the ones which do. I think that ships gaining unusually high speeds from AB should be those ships with native bonsues to them, like the succubus/etc. I think that we already have a precedent in place for allowing some forms of ship fitting which make things perform in very unusual ways. I think that many of the problems people complained about with regards the svipul originally stemmed from its ability to fit a 10mn AB and a full complement of tank&spank and that the lowest common denominator with complaints which center around fits abusing oversized props are the oversized props - go figure.

I'd love to see the rationalisation from the status-quo camp on why oversized-AB should remain so easy to fit. I've been around long enough to have seen just about all the debates on this topic, I've seen the dev team come out and state that they "don't want the option of oversized prop mods to disappear". I don't think they should disappear either, I just don't think you should reasonably expect to have 30k ehp and do 300dps while you do it. You want to talk about hyper-specialisation but refuse to acknowledge that these are actually kind of common especially when talking about confessors, some stabber configurations, the tengu and various frigates. I'm actually kind of suprised the capital AB can't be fit to battleships, maybe possibly something like the abaddon actually can who even knows? [edit] yes it can, with a single RCU it can fit a 10,000MN AB. Or rather it ~could~, if they weren't class limited to capitals only. Seriously CCP some consistency please, surely if oversized AB on battleship is broken why would you permit it on other classes?

Wrong tool for the job.

Just increase powergrid requirements of magic neutralizers by 100x too and we are good to go.

This breaks the MWD/AB fitting balance and ruins a lot of proper sized fits.

I think a better nerf would be to further tweak how mass/inertia works with ABs so their benefit (both top speed and align) is even worse.

Hmmm yeah, he seems to know what hes talking about, certainly used a lot of words.
...
Im convinced, to whom do I send my isk?

Scuse me but they those chasing an oversized ab fit boat and only fit short range guns, they aren't doing it right, so the game doesn't have to be changed to work for them.

If some folks cannot fathom fitting long range guns it's not the game's fault.

Damn, right!

I forgot about those. I tried to reason for medium long range missiles and failed but I tried.

When the Confessor hit SiSi and people figured out they could be with with a 10mn ab I was flying an Apocalypse, waiting for the skill to finish and had one approach me.

Even though he may have been in defense mode, he had a really bad day. An Eagle with railguns will probably do the same.

Maybe it's just me but they will have incredible bad turning speeds and will warp or have a bad day too.

Or when you are fighting such builds, just bring the right tools for the job. I dont agree with this suggestion but IF you were to fix this "problem" the simple and best way to do it is to make Prop mods class spec. Or at least have a min size class they can be fitted to. IE: 10MN can only be fitted to cruisers and larger, wheras 1MN can be fitted to any ship, and 100 MN can only be fitted to BS and larger.

Its a simple solution that doesnt nerf a bunch of fits and ships to achieve one thing.

Yeah well, this sort of thinking is the kind of **** that requires me to have ESP and telepathically know what my opponent has undocked before I fight him. Suppose I only find out after we're already on grid/engaged to one another? You see you can zoom in on an opponent and see if he has arty/AC, you can see if he's shield tanked or armour tanked (most of the time if talking about active modules) but you can't see his prop. I mean we are basically talking about strapping a 6L v8 in to a VW beetle. Yeah...? Wouldn't bonnet modifications to fit the damn thing be a dead giveaway?

As for class limited AB like with the capital sizes yes I already mentioned that, it is the quick fix however I don't want oversized props to disappear entirely I just want them to be what they are; ships modified in extreme ways to fit a powersource they otherwise couldn't and if that means 4 fitting mods and 2 cap injectors then so be it.

It's a good thought for balancing. Lots of ships get away with it while lots of others struggle with normal fitting. Struggle is real. I think the suggested fixes so far are inadequate but can not produce a valid solution myself. I can only agree that this can be an issue.
Maybe make the extra thrust/tonnage further punishing?

You have not convinced me that this is a problem that needs to be fixed so -1.

But going in the spirit and accepting that it is broken this sledge hammer approach is a terrible idea. I have many ships / fits that use appropriate sizes AB and none of them would be possible because power grid if CCP did this. However there is a very simple way to solve this and the best part of the idea is that it does not affect any fit in existence that uses "proper" sized AB or MWD. Simply define them as small, medium, large etc and make them like turrets and launchers in that you can always fit smaller but you cannot fit larger, there problem solved and no changes to PG needed.