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So, Barge Info?
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Solecist Project
#141 - 2016-08-18 11:24:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Dracvlad wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Well the Hulk and Coveter were defined as CCP as fleet mining ships, while the skiff and procurer are solo mining ships with less yield and greater tank while the Mac and Retreiver are solo mining ships with more yield and greater capacity. So its pretty basic stuff.

Negative long term consequence, what? That is an odd statement / question.

The ships are balanced for their roles, simple stuff really.

If a 0.0 player is asking for more flexible fleet ships then why not, the Hulk and Coveter could be adjusted for that.

Fleet mining, yes. Not meant purely for 0.0, as you wrongly "supposed".

Negative long term consequences for miners if baltec1's idea came to life.

And now it looks like you're struggling... but anyway, now you know, so please provide.


There is nothing negative in changing the Hulk and Coveter to better meet their role as fleet mining ships, there is no struggle there, their intended role is fleet mining in 0.0, its not my fault that they both have the tank of a wet paper bag.

Wrong again.

The hulk and covetor are not intended to be used solely in 0.0, as they are not restricted to being used in 0.0. They are perfectly fine in highsec as well and how bad players use them has no connetion with their role whatsoever.
Furthermore did you oppose baltec1's idea vehemently and still fail to provide a meaningfull response.

last chance:

You opposed baltec1's idea vehemently and i ask about the negative longterm consequences about his idea.
And please learn that you are wrong regarding your perception of both the hulk and the covetor.

In any case, trying to weasel around with words makes you look like a weakling, so i suggest you stop.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#142 - 2016-08-18 11:28:53 UTC
Meh... i forgot the english term for someone who is a dishonest weasel who constantly tries using words in manipulative ways, trying to portrait himself as a good and upstanding person while the opposite is the case.

Can someone help me out?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#143 - 2016-08-18 11:33:00 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Meh... i forgot the english term for someone who is a dishonest weasel who constantly tries using words in manipulative ways, trying to portrait himself as a good and upstanding person while the opposite is the case.

Can someone help me out?


Politician.
Solecist Project
#144 - 2016-08-18 11:36:40 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Meh... i forgot the english term for someone who is a dishonest weasel who constantly tries using words in manipulative ways, trying to portrait himself as a good and upstanding person while the opposite is the case.

Can someone help me out?


Politician.

Yes, yes, that was it. Someone who pretends to be someone he isn't, only ever looks after himself and will not ever stop being dishonest and manipulative because needs to keep control over the situation. also related: psychopath.

Thanks!

Now back to your regular thread.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#145 - 2016-08-18 11:44:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Solecist Project wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Well the Hulk and Coveter were defined as CCP as fleet mining ships, while the skiff and procurer are solo mining ships with less yield and greater tank while the Mac and Retreiver are solo mining ships with more yield and greater capacity. So its pretty basic stuff.

Negative long term consequence, what? That is an odd statement / question.

The ships are balanced for their roles, simple stuff really.

If a 0.0 player is asking for more flexible fleet ships then why not, the Hulk and Coveter could be adjusted for that.

Fleet mining, yes. Not meant purely for 0.0, as you wrongly "supposed".

Negative long term consequences for miners if baltec1's idea came to life.

And now it looks like you're struggling... but anyway, now you know, so please provide.


There is nothing negative in changing the Hulk and Coveter to better meet their role as fleet mining ships, there is no struggle there, their intended role is fleet mining in 0.0, its not my fault that they both have the tank of a wet paper bag.

Wrong again.

The hulk and covetor are not intended to be used solely in 0.0, as they are not restricted to being used in 0.0. They are perfectly fine in highsec as well and how bad players use them has no connetion with their role whatsoever.
Furthermore did you oppose baltec1's idea vehemently and still fail to provide a meaningfull response.

last chance:

You opposed baltec1's idea vehemently and i ask about the negative longterm consequences about his idea.
And please learn that you are wrong regarding your perception of both the hulk and the covetor.

In any case, trying to weasel around like a politician makes you look like a weakling, so i suggest you stop.


Last chance... Roll

Of course they can be used in other areas and are, however CCP designed them for that role.

The two ships I mentioned were designated for that role by CCP, baltec1 can make them look like micky mouse heads and stick purple disco lights on them for all I care.

The Skiff is what I use because of its tank and because I solo mine in hisec, it meats my needs as it is, baltec1 wants to change the skiff to be less then what it is, which I reject. It is the solo mining boat and if he wants to hang fluffy dice from his rear view mirror on the Hulk that is his call.

I used the Hulk when it was the ship that had the best defences, I stopped using any mining ship when they all had the tank of a wet paper bag, I mine in the Skiff because it has a tank, I fit additional tank and I accept the lower yield, that is fine for me, if CCP change it, then it will not be fine.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Sarah Flynt
Red Cross Mercenaries
Silent Infinity
#146 - 2016-08-18 11:45:10 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Mate, if you are mining in nullsec WITHOUT a Rorqual with a hangar bay full of combat ships and combat boosters along with mining boosters for support (plus backup no further than one jump away), I am going to seriously question your intelligence. In fact, why are you even in nullsec without combat skills of some description to make good use of the ships you will be reshipping into from the Rorqual to take on attackers?

Please educate yourself before calling others stupid because the way you think mining in nullsec works: it doesn't. The scenario you're describing simply doesn't happen in nullsec because: a) nobody in his right mind puts a Rorqual in a belt thanks to the 5 minute siege timer of the industrial core and b) the ship maintenance bay of the Rorqual is undersized and can only hold industrial/mining ships, nothing else.

Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#147 - 2016-08-18 11:59:38 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Dracvlad wrote:


Last chance... Roll

Of course they can be used in other areas and are, however CCP designed them for that role.

The two ships I mentioned were designated for that role by CCP, baltec1 can make them look like micky mouse heads and stick purple disco lights on them for all I care.

The Skiff is what I use because of its tank and because I solo mine in hisec, it meats my needs as it is, baltec1 wants to change the skiff to be less then what it is, which I reject. It is the solo mining boat and if he wants to hang fluffy dice from his rear view mirror on the Hulk that is his call.

I used the Hulk when it was the ship that had the best defences, I stopped using any mining ship when they all had the tank of a wet paper bag, I mine in the Skiff because it has a tank, I fit additional tank and I accept the lower yield, that is fine for me, if CCP change it, then it will not be fine.


So on the one hand we have my argument for a skiff with the firepower of a droneboat coupled with a tank somewhere between a force recon and a heavy assault ship complete with the ability to fit tackle, webs, prop mod and so forth.

While you are arguing that miners are literally too stupid to fit ships for themselves so CCP should do it for them but if they are outside of highsec then they should have no hope.
Solecist Project
#148 - 2016-08-18 12:08:00 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Well the Hulk and Coveter were defined as CCP as fleet mining ships, while the skiff and procurer are solo mining ships with less yield and greater tank while the Mac and Retreiver are solo mining ships with more yield and greater capacity. So its pretty basic stuff.

Negative long term consequence, what? That is an odd statement / question.

The ships are balanced for their roles, simple stuff really.

If a 0.0 player is asking for more flexible fleet ships then why not, the Hulk and Coveter could be adjusted for that.

Fleet mining, yes. Not meant purely for 0.0, as you wrongly "supposed".

Negative long term consequences for miners if baltec1's idea came to life.

And now it looks like you're struggling... but anyway, now you know, so please provide.


There is nothing negative in changing the Hulk and Coveter to better meet their role as fleet mining ships, there is no struggle there, their intended role is fleet mining in 0.0, its not my fault that they both have the tank of a wet paper bag.

Wrong again.

The hulk and covetor are not intended to be used solely in 0.0, as they are not restricted to being used in 0.0. They are perfectly fine in highsec as well and how bad players use them has no connetion with their role whatsoever.
Furthermore did you oppose baltec1's idea vehemently and still fail to provide a meaningfull response.

last chance:

You opposed baltec1's idea vehemently and i ask about the negative longterm consequences about his idea.
And please learn that you are wrong regarding your perception of both the hulk and the covetor.

In any case, trying to weasel around like a politician makes you look like a weakling, so i suggest you stop.


Last chance... Roll

Of course they can be used in other areas and are, however CCP designed them for that role.

The two ships I mentioned were designated for that role by CCP, baltec1 can make them look like micky mouse heads and stick purple disco lights on them for all I care.

The Skiff is what I use because of its tank and because I solo mine in hisec, it meats my needs as it is, baltec1 wants to change the skiff to be less then what it is, which I reject. It is the solo mining boat and if he wants to hang fluffy dice from his rear view mirror on the Hulk that is his call.

I used the Hulk when it was the ship that had the best defences, I stopped using any mining ship when they all had the tank of a wet paper bag, I mine in the Skiff because it has a tank, I fit additional tank and I accept the lower yield, that is fine for me, if CCP change it, then it will not be fine.

And again you are wrong.
They weren't designed for 0.0 specifically.

You don't even gain anything from constantly repeating this nonsense ...
... and you are absolutely underqualified to keep this nonsense alive.

No matter how hard you try, the ships' intended role has nothing to do with 0.0 at all
and in no way or form did ccp mention that these ships are specifically geared towards nullsec.

But you're of course free to link a source to your claim.
Unlike some other people i can accept when i'm wrong and don't need to weasel around with words
just so i can keep up the delusion of having control over a situation. I'm not a weak minded person.


And you fail to answer my question regarding your vehement opposition to baltec1's proposal.
Again. Again. Again.


Maybe you have a reading disorder. I don't know.
I'm sorry if this offends you, i'm just curious!

Anyway, i will stop this now.
People might start calling me out for potentially harassing someone who is seriously outleagued.

Sorry about that all these questions.
It's probably not your fault at all and i shouldn't automatically assume any bad intentions from your side.

Have a nice day and feel free to have the last word if you need it. :)

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#149 - 2016-08-18 12:11:42 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Last chance... Roll

Of course they can be used in other areas and are, however CCP designed them for that role.

The two ships I mentioned were designated for that role by CCP, baltec1 can make them look like micky mouse heads and stick purple disco lights on them for all I care.

The Skiff is what I use because of its tank and because I solo mine in hisec, it meats my needs as it is, baltec1 wants to change the skiff to be less then what it is, which I reject. It is the solo mining boat and if he wants to hang fluffy dice from his rear view mirror on the Hulk that is his call.

I used the Hulk when it was the ship that had the best defences, I stopped using any mining ship when they all had the tank of a wet paper bag, I mine in the Skiff because it has a tank, I fit additional tank and I accept the lower yield, that is fine for me, if CCP change it, then it will not be fine.


So on the one hand we have my argument for a skiff with the firepower of a droneboat coupled with a tank somewhere between a force recon and a heavy assault ship complete with the ability to fit tackle, webs, prop mod and so forth.

While you are arguing that miners are literally too stupid to fit ships for themselves so CCP should do it for them but if they are outside of highsec then they should have no hope.


You can do what you want with the Hulk and Coveter as it can be used in that role, please go and fit pink fluffy dice on it if you want.. That is the role that CCP designated for it, it is CCP's problem that it is not fit for purpose. You want a fleet mining ship with options work with the Hulk and Coveter. It is that simple...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#150 - 2016-08-18 12:20:37 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


You can do what you want with the Hulk and Coveter as it can be used in that role, please go and fit pink fluffy dice on it if you want.. That is the role that CCP designated for it, it is CCP's problem that it is not fit for purpose. You want a fleet mining ship with options work with the Hulk and Coveter. It is that simple...


You have failed to back up anything you have said, you have failed to answer any question and your only argument is "CCP fit more tank for me".

You are adding nothing to this topic.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#151 - 2016-08-18 12:28:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


You can do what you want with the Hulk and Coveter as it can be used in that role, please go and fit pink fluffy dice on it if you want.. That is the role that CCP designated for it, it is CCP's problem that it is not fit for purpose. You want a fleet mining ship with options work with the Hulk and Coveter. It is that simple...


You have failed to back up anything you have said, you have failed to answer any question and your only argument is "CCP fit more tank for me".

You are adding nothing to this topic.


I am simply stating that the Skiff is fine where it is, no change needed, I have never asked for more tank for the Skiff or Procurer, while you want to nerf its tank by adding other roles to it which are not desired by miners with the aim of reducing its ability as a tanky mining ship..

The Mackinaw and Retreiver need more tank, as does the Hulk and Coveter.

But if you want to play around with a fleet ship to give options then fire away with the Hulk and Coveter. If you want to fit them to be some sort of sensor boosting what not then go ahead.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#152 - 2016-08-18 12:39:57 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

I am simply stating that the Skiff is fine where it is, no change needed, I have never asked for more tank for the Skiff or Procurer, while you want to nerf its tank by adding other roles to it which are not desired by miners with the aim of reducing its ability as a tanky mining ship.



Im wanting to add abilities to the skiff. You are literally arguing against making it a better ship. All you are doing is at best showing you have no idea how basic game mechanics work and at worst deliberately shafting miners so you can continue to rial against ganking.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#153 - 2016-08-18 12:46:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

I am simply stating that the Skiff is fine where it is, no change needed, I have never asked for more tank for the Skiff or Procurer, while you want to nerf its tank by adding other roles to it which are not desired by miners with the aim of reducing its ability as a tanky mining ship.



Im wanting to add abilities to the skiff. You are literally arguing against making it a better ship. All you are doing is at best showing you have no idea how basic game mechanics work and at worst deliberately shafting miners so you can continue to rial against ganking.


Those other abilities are not desired, it is a solo tanky mining ship period. Your motives are to remove its base EHP, and you seek to obscure that by suggesting that the tanky solo mining ship should be redesigned to fit a fleet role.

Your ideas can be catered for by CCP playing with the Hulk and Coveter for that role, seems perfectly fine to me.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#154 - 2016-08-18 12:59:03 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

Those other abilities are not desired


It already has the drone damage bonus, it already has the dronebay. I'm asking to add a few more slots, more CPU and powergrid and for it to tank like a HAC.

It will be the same ship for what you want it for only rather than have a huge base tank you have to fit one.
Viktor Amarr
#155 - 2016-08-18 13:06:51 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Those other abilities are not desired... for semi-afk use.


Thanks for clearing that up.
Ded Akara
Doomheim
#156 - 2016-08-18 13:11:35 UTC
So will the Mackinkaw see more use in hi-sec now that it has the best yield and is the best solo miner?

Skiff has 20% less yield on the base of it but if you factor in that a skiff can fit 3 yield modules in the lo slots and still have enough cpu to fit a strong T2 tank

Mackinkaw can still only fit two yield modules if you want to retain enough to cpu to fit any kind of tank. Like this the super tank yield fit Skiff only has 11% less yield than the Mackinkaw.

There's a serious imbalance in the CPU numbers of the barges. Either nerf Skiff CPU hard so it can't be yield fit and have a strong T2 tank or boost mackinkaw/hulk cpu so they can at least fit a half decent tank so they can survive 3 catalysts if properly fit.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#157 - 2016-08-18 13:16:28 UTC
Ded Akara wrote:
So will the Mackinkaw see more use in hi-sec now that it has the best yield and is the best solo miner?

Skiff has 20% less yield on the base of it but if you factor in that a skiff can fit 3 yield modules in the lo slots and still have enough cpu to fit a strong T2 tank

Mackinkaw can still only fit two yield modules if you want to retain enough to cpu to fit any kind of tank. Like this the super tank yield fit Skiff only has 11% less yield than the Mackinkaw.

There's a serious imbalance in the CPU numbers of the barges. Either nerf Skiff CPU hard so it can't be yield fit and have a strong T2 tank or boost mackinkaw/hulk cpu so they can at least fit a half decent tank so they can survive 3 catalysts if properly fit.


Skiff and proc will be the order of the day. As you said the other 4 barges have terrible problems with fittings.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#158 - 2016-08-18 13:38:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Viktor Amarr wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Those other abilities are not desired... for semi-afk use.


Thanks for clearing that up.


Am I supposed to be offended by that in some way? Roll

EDIT: But to make it clear Viktor Amarr added the words:

Quote:
for semi-afk use.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#159 - 2016-08-18 13:42:25 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Viktor Amarr wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Those other abilities are not desired... for semi-afk use.


Thanks for clearing that up.


Am I supposed to be offended by that in some way? Roll

Yes - any level of AFK-ness is inherently evil. EVE should be played like an FPS, where leaving the keyboard while playing harms your team and makes everyone hate you.

Now excuse me while I afk autopilot for the other side of EVE Bear

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#160 - 2016-08-18 13:45:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

Those other abilities are not desired


It already has the drone damage bonus, it already has the dronebay. I'm asking to add a few more slots, more CPU and powergrid and for it to tank like a HAC.

It will be the same ship for what you want it for only rather than have a huge base tank you have to fit one.


Give the larger drone bay and drone bonus to the Hulk too, fine with me, it does not currently have any role bonuses and it should.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp