EVE General Discussion

Thanks so much for that sentiment Shae

I'll get back on topic here. "We want to help ccp bring more players into eve!"
Ask them. (Who?) Those who would be the "more players" people.

I have and I'll be specific. In Lord of the Ring Online, Guild Wars 2, Uncharted Waters Online, and Star Wars the Old Republic I have in their global and regional chat functions, frequently broached the subject of playing EVE. Some of us EVE players say things a certain way that gives us away, and will trigger the question, "Hey. Do you play EVE?" To which you get the response, "Yeah. Do you?" Yeah. And then the conversation stops. It's odd. Nobody that plays EVE will really discuss it with each other even in other games. I'm supposing it's carrying forward the "trust no one" rule. And, I'm always left with wondering if this commends itself well to other players who haven't played or won't play EVE.

Some one will then ask, "What is EVE?" This is where it gets relevant to this discussion. Defining what we are. It doesn't have to be accurate. It just has to be what people believe it is. This decides if it's a draw or not. The other question is, "What's it like? I've been thinking of trying it." The responses to these two questions speak volumes, and regardless of what expertise we may try to gin up among ourselves to answer the challenge presented by the OP, we are left with this view that is shared by those who would be the people to become our "more players" we're after.

As such, there is no argument. You can have an opinion about someone else's opinion I guess. But that won't change anyone's mind and send a flood of new, paying customers EVE's way. You can vigorously assert how incorrect these impressions may be, or argue about how the person holding the view is wrong. But, if you're in business, all we're discussing here is, "Why won't this customer buy from us?" Telling a person they're philosophically incorrect won't get them into your store...or game.

So, what are these views? First and foremost is, players with a distinct time advantage over you (gear and skill) can victimize you and not only is nothing done about it, the management encourages it. I tell you. The most common response to this is, "Well. That's stupid. I'll never play that game." Now. We all know this is true. If you claim it isn't you're just knowingly wasting our time, and trying to divert the conversation - definition of a troll. People are just not inclined to pay for the experience of being mugged and robbed. Given the other gaming choices they have available, common sense dictates this isn't an option. The fact the EVE community has to argue this point interminably just makes it worse on the EVE community in the eyes of those who hold this opinion. This leads to the second opinion.

EVE players just aren't nice people. They're mean. They're dishonest. They're selfish. They're inconsiderate, and they take delight in the misery of others. (moar tears...?) We are just seen as the bad seed of the gaming world. We are seen not as outlaws but as psychos. EVE is actually seen to be the place where psychos enjoy one another's company. And, once again, nobody (given the choices available) is going to pay money for the experience of rubbing elbows with the mentally disturbed.

You get over those two impressions, you have a shot at "more members". You argue it's not true. It's a lie. They're dumb. Whatever you like, you only further enforce the impression. The key point in these conversations revolves around the view that management finding acceptable the victimizing of its customers by other customers is seriously questionable. If management has this as a policy there's no hope, and nothing has a possibility of changing, so why waste your time? Pick another option.

Nobody forces you to play EVE. Unless you want to play a game with the stated purpose of becoming king of victimizing, other games are more appealing. It certainly attracts that sort of person. It may be why I play, actually. I'd say this is a slim minority of players, however. I've played team sports and chess in competition with it in mind the goal is to really stick it to the opposition. There are always more people watching these games than playing them. The big however there is, in this type of competition, your opponents are normally an equal match. The only advantage you may have you bring with you in your brain. Your goal isn't lower than theirs. You don't get any extra queens on your board to start.

Now, this view may be perfectly fine to current players. However, if you're viewing this in marketing terms in today's climate, as selling points to expand your customer base, this is red flag city. You as a businessmen are a fool if you think this view of your enterprise will allow you to find new customers. EVE is not some secret no one's heard about. EVE has a reputation, for good or ill. People in gaming are quick to inform those who don't know just what sort of game this really is. Most of this word of mouth advertising is "Keep away from EVE unless you're stupid or a glutton for punishment."

So...if we want to help CCP bring more players to EVE...find a way to overcome this impression of the game held by those who are prospective customers. And, be advised management isn't inclined to help there. Otherwise, just drop it as a subject. It's like beating your head against a brick wall. We are already customers. We're not talking about our views. We're discussing the views of customers that won't come in our door...that just pass us by.

This is going to be fun...



First, dont ever become a salesperson, because you will starve to death. You are selling the game as victim and portraying a victim mentality. You are basically telling people what its like to be a sheep in eve rather than the wolf. It is also inaccurate.

I have a character that has 3-5 mil sp. He flies a gila and rattlesnake. He is trained specifically to fly those ships and he flies them as effectively as my main/alts with 20-30 times more SP. In eve skill points only matter to a degree. Because you only use a set amount of skill points in anyone activity. If im flying a rattlesnake for example my skills in light missiles, lasers, rails, t3 cruisers, warp disruptors, jump freighters, industrials, covert ops, etc do not matter and thus most of my skill points dont even apply. Second, You can go from 500k SP to 500 mil SP as fast as you can use skill injectors and apply skill points.

The eve community doesnt argue this point. Bears from other games, that are here for all of 5 minutes start crying about the game and want to make drastic overhauls to fit their playstyle, instead of learning to play the game as is. Or even worse they have been here for years and rather whine about something than change their behavior ever so slightly to completely avoid the problem. How is it i havent died in PVE in nearly 2 years but these bears seem to die left and right from what they say? I mean i live in null sec, I rat 2 jumps from an enemy stronghold, I run through lowsec doing sites, and i do all sorts of things in high sec usually with wardecs. How is it i manage this yet these other people cannot? Situation awareness and i made an effort to learn game mechanics.


Wow, selling definitely is not your strong point. Please stop trying to sell Eve.

Its funny that the people you talk to in other games have this impression of Eve players, because the people i talk to in other games dont really have the same feeling about eve players. They are mostly neutral or if they played it before they didnt like Eve because of "X" and that isnt because someone ganked them, scammed them, or baited them. Instead it was because eve is "to slow paced" , " to complex to learn", " doesnt have any direction" , " isnt the type of game i thought it would be" IE they didnt like the sandbox aspect of it. or other various things that really have nothing to do with the players themselves.

Oddly enough Eve players are far more mature and reasonable than those droves pre teens and young teens that play other games and think they are all that and a bag of Doritos. In fact that is one reason why i prefer eve is because the player base is generally more mature than games like the ones you referenced.

Methinks they have that impression of eve players because thats YOUR impression of eve players and thats the impression of eve players you are pushing. You are projecting your own view of eve players onto other people which gives them the impression that is what eve players are like. And eve players are like that...in your head but not in reality.

Eve is a niche game for niche players. CCP doesnt pretend to want to cater to the masses and we dont pretend to want a game that caters to the masses. Eve as it is, is what sets it apart from other games. We dont want it to be like other games. If we wanted that style of gaming, we would play those games. We play eve because of what it is, not because of what we hope it might be some day in the future.

You seem to think eve has a bad reputation. Eve from my perspective has a good reputation. It also has good reviews and has won quite a few awards.

Eve isnt doing as well as it was because the market that EVE is part of isnt doing as well as it was. That market shrunk as mobile games have stolen a lot of players. Fewer people are playing games on PCs and more are playing games on their smartphones. Eve actually weathered the downturn better than its mark.

Also you basically implied in your post " If you dont agree with me, then you are wrong and a troll". I can tell you from your post that you are part of the problem and not part of the solution. If there needs to be a solution. I would personally focus on retaining players that try the game rather than trying to get a lot more people to try the game. You have to walk before you run.

You can say by one anecdotal experience, "...the difference between a PVP focused...." against an intentional, frequent exploration of the matter in several venues..of course you can...or will...would...did. Oh, by the way. I'm not interested in convincing you of anything. You're already convinced. Have a nice day!

PS What he really means is "say something else"...shhhh it's a secret.


Pssst, guess what. I only said I asked questions. I never said I said any of this stuff. This stuff was told to me. But, as is typical you're correcting me for saying what someone else has said. Don't worry. I'm not into sales. I sure hope you aren't into anything requiring the ability to follow lines of logic. I'm not going to bother with the rest of your rather lengthy post as you obviously have trouble staying on point.

I just hit the quote button but I didn't bother to read it.

Heh - AG spies have reported even stranger and more serious issues. I feel sorry for some of these poor devils.

EDIT: The worst part about this is that they don't care about each other. They view having a problem, if they dare share it with each other, as a form of weakness at best. They are the total opposite of the players you would find in the B4R community.

Well at least you partly proved my point about the forums, even though you added 0 to the thread.

Don't dismiss it as "SJW crap" just because you have no legitimately rational counterargument to the rational criticism of your **** analogy. No one wanted to censor you, we were just pointing out how disgusting it is for you to belittle real physical trauma by putting it in the same category as exploding space pixels. We don't have to pretend that trauma is anything but what it actually is, or change the definitions of words, or engage in any "SJW" tactics, for this to remain true. In essense, your analogy was a hollow one as a result, a meaningless one, which has no point, and as long as you're hopping around on your moral high-horse out-grouping everyone, then you'd better be damn well ready for the criticism of your own failure to practice what you ******* preach.

Your asserted experience was the basis of your premise. And it's not me dismissing you, it was you dismissing you. You said it yourself, my anecdote can be dismissed. So can yours. If yours stands, then so does mine, it really is that simple. If you have a problem with that, take it up with basic logic, or at least try to learn some first.

No blanks were fired either, dear, and no, dismissing your assertions of experience is no different from dismissing mine. If your 'argument' is that my dismissal of you means you're hitting the mark, then I can do the same and say your dismissal of me means the same thing. Neither is true, of course, and I explained in no uncertain terms why your argument can be dismissed as easily as you dismissed mine. Last I checked, that's the complete opposite of 'firing blanks'.

Uh...right...I lost you at accusing me of saying things I've related I've been told. You still seem to have it in your head...but you say I lied about it all, invented it or ("premise") postulated it. However, it happened. I'm sure you not being there gave you all the information you need to say it didn't happen. That's the logic I see you using. So, this other lesson in logic...just further demonstrates what I said in the post you're having so much trouble with...and no, I don't expect you to see it. You're already convinced. This is for the benefit of others so they can see what your "side" is like. Thanks for your aid in that regard.

Keep it up. I'm loving it.

Oh. Just one more thing. If all these things I've said about the actual issue at hand are false, and all these things you claim are true, then there's a flood of new memberships and this thread has no purpose which is why you've invested so much time in it and...right.

Where are all these new subs playing, again?

And of course you have a source on this load of bollux people say in this forum but ... fail to attribute. Waiting patiently. Thank you very much!