EVE General Discussion

I think the best thing I could do would be to sit on gate immediately outside the starter systems and then try to gank everything that jumps through the gate.

Get them interacting with other players in true Eve style and use that as way to help teach them what they want to know.

Not being into ganking though, maybe I could drop an alt in a starter Corp and try to get Corp chat moving. It's so quiet in NPC Corps. No wonder people leave before really trying the game. There's no interaction built in when you first start.

Unfortunately, with so many starter Corps it's difficult to get them all active.

Living up to your signature I see.

Seems like you need a lie down. Maybe your meds too.

Calling ganking PVP is like calling raep "lovemaking".

Realize that and you will stop being part of the problem.

Comparing the real trauma of the victims of unconsentual sexual assault and/or contact to the banal discomfort of losing a pixelated rookie ship on a video game is... **** the analogy, it's ******* disgusting is what it is, and the sooner you realise that, the sooner you'll learn what constitutes a legitimate problem.

Like it or not, PVP = player vs player, a conflict between players. That is not an exclusive term, it is as equally inclusive of one-sided conflict as it is of fair and even conflict.

See my recent comment to the gankbear. Their problem is that they try to conflate PVP with ganking, which are two different things.

The way I see it, and you've been around too so let me know if I'm wrong, is that these gankbears are the people who sat in lowsec killing everything that moved and for no real reason. But their days were numbered. While they could overwhelm anybody coming through the gate and have their fun, in due time things would change:
- growing corporations were able to field more forces and at greater projection to counter gate camps.
- the ability to jump provisions into and out of highsec (part of "force projection" but with goods) put an end to convoys and individuals moving their stuff.
- Apocrypha probing mechanics ensured certain death for the kind of players who, in spite of gate camps, or were smart enough to avoid them, could not do anything in lowsec for now the entire system could be easily camped like a gate, thus they stopped showing up.


So lowsec bought it. Think about it. Do you remember the days before "they" made ganking a playstyle? Lots and lots of threads about lowsec that all amounted to "CCP Please force more players into my gate camp!"

But they did adapt: into highsec aggro fu and can-flipping. An alliance called TEARS was formed. This resulted in PVP ships versus PVe ships and miners which they also tried to call "PVP". They were creepy cousins. If you did nothing as they took the loot and became flashy only to you, it was tears and you were probably too mad or butthurt to do anything. If you shot the wrecks then it meant that you were mad or butthurt. (Remember, Gankers ALWAYS project. It's their world that is all about getting hurt of not "calming down" that's why they bank on it).

But CCP did not kill that outright. They provided tools to counter it to some extents. Crimewatch was one, and that bothered the people who claimed it was all about PVP. They didn't like being suspect and could be shot by anybody except one mission runner they could overwhelm and gank. But probably the worst thing was being able to abandon loot. This shut down the aggro-fu.

TEARS fell apart. Then came the rise of James 315 and a movement that, if you look at the rhetoric, is entirely based on butthurt derived from CCP trying to "nerf ganking" by making more possibilities for PVP as the solution. Only mission runners making mistakes coud be ganked. Incursion fleets where targeted for a while, once again "gotcha games" because actual PVP was not what they wanted, so then came the safety button which they cried oceans of tears over. Incursion runners became nearly untouchable.

So the easy-kill crowd had to resort to bumping and ganking. It's good that they have been so relegated and corralled into such a small niche. If they all got corralled right out of the game nobody would miss them.

But here they are, complaining just like they always have. You are right.

You have read enough of my posts well enough to know that has always been my opinion and in what context I make that comparison.


Admittedly, it is rather irksome when the "you log into the game you consent to being ganked" excuse rings as hollow as "well she left the house in high heels and a skirt....".


It may not be the exact same thing, but remember what this thread is about, right? You know the game, I know it. But a new player (read "more players") who comes into contact with that mindset are going to make that exact same comparison that I can make right here, and what we know differs from what an outside observer and/or noob knows, and they decide whether or not what want to put up with "people who think like that".

There is a difference between ganking and PVP and as Serene correctly points out, people love the hell out of games that are made around PVP.

I would also add to that, FPS games have already headed into the area of character customization (Halo for example) and to some extent you can customize your skills too.

The combination of these features with FPS games is IMO the looming death of Eve Online. All these new constant ship skins reek of desperation.

Funny, I never "personally" accepted a definition of PVP.

New players probably don't have that congealed in their perception either. But I would bet their gut feeling wins in the end.

That is, if you have a combat ship and go looking for a fight or go where there is high risk compared to "I'll just move this stuff over there.... undock*WTF*BOOM*"

Then you and the other gankbears have this blame the victim mentality and again, like it or not, people in western civilization do not like that mindset and won't SUBSCRIBE to it and when they see what kind of people are already playing, they don't SUBSCRIBE.

You might have a rationalization hamster just running in that little wheel in your head helping you justify everything you personally favor, but when it comes to what other people are going to do with their time and money, you have no power over them.

That raises:

3. What post was I replying to?

Only the OP, which also mentions nothing about PVP.

So back to 1. and 2.

thats precisely why im pulling you up on it.
its not even remotely in the same ball park ,
is extremely disrespectful to those of us who may have sufferd or had someone close to us suffer and you know it.

this is a game ,
regardless of whatever qualifiers or context you use it is never acceptable to publicly take the **** out of someones real trauma by making that comparison and i am ashamed for us every time i see it.

There is no victim blaming going on. What you perceive as victim blaming is us actually teaching the victim what they did wrong, and what they can do in future to mitigate the risk to themselves. Is it blaming the victim to tell someone not to leave the keys in the front door of their house, or they're likely to get robbed? Did you know insurance companies won't pay out if you do this, because despite being a victim of a crime, you actually share some of the responsibility of making yourself a victim? Also, don't play the victim card with me, kiddo, we all know your grasp on reality isn't grippy enough for you to comprehend what a real victim is. So much was made obvious when you conflated real physical trauma with losing virtual, pixelised spaceships.



The only favour I have is for impartiality and honesty. So far, you have been found wonting in both departments, especially your bias against gankers, which is why you continuously try to group people with them as the 'bad guys' so you can dismiss them as 'irrational' when they disagree with you and provide arguments that you have no counter to.