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Sentry miner drones for outside HS
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Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#1 - 2016-06-04 20:19:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiddoomer
So, since I've been using mining drones regularly for quite some years, to the point of using a mining drone rig or 2 sometimes. I've been thinking about them for a few reasons :

Mining drones are very slow (around 625 m/s, as opposed to 5780 m/s for acolyte II), which both makes the player using them having to :

  • stick close to the asteroid mined(<5000 meters) from an asteroid for a decent use of their yield, which can lead to problem if it's a very big asteroid (veldspar, spodumain and some nullsec/wormhole space ones), these rocks tend to have some issues "hitbox-wise" which can make you bump them while you're not touching them visually

  • be in threat of either rats (LS/NS rats that is) or PVP threats, because it can take way more time than a squadron of light drones to put them back in the drone bay, to be able then to undock combat or ecm drones.

  • be even more slowboater when mining in fleet, because instead of having the mining ships grouped in a ore site, they have to scatter to stick close to each of their designated asteroid if they use mining drones, which can lead to other issues with long distances between asteroid with no fitting rooms for AB/MWD of cruiser size (be it exhumer or mining barge except the smallest one), and short maximum locking range (37.5 km) for miners to help each others with combat drones.


But I think that they still have some good uses, especially in highsec, where distance between asteroids is not an issue, rats none and that they have a good enough yield to deplete asteroids all by themselves.

So instead of a buff or a change to them, I though about a new mining drone, with the exact same yield than the one we have now, but could be used for different cases : a sentry mining drone.

This mining drone would need to meet some other specifities though, to not make it step on the other one :

  • A size of 50 m3, so this drone would not be good for highsec since it could waste time on a rock that it already depleted, and to make it more toward bigger mining ships (from covetor to Hulk) to make more incentive to fly them outside of highsec.
  • A range long enough for ore sites in nullsec and wormhole space, something around 30-50 km would be enough.
  • put most of their yield in a specific bonus of the mining ships that can deploy them, to prevent other ships that can deploy multple heavy/sentry drones to use them
  • make them need the same skills as combat sentry drones, so with the mining drone skill, add the sentry drone interfacing skill, to gives some long but rewarding skills to train for miners that can help them for other activities in the game too.
  • make them cost around the same price than 5 combat sentries are now, so ~3M cheap enough so people use them but take care of them instead of afking with them deployed


I may have forgotten some aspects to it so feel free to add anything, I don't know personnaly in EVE other people using them on a regular basis, especially T2 with rigs and good skills.



TL DR : 50 m3 sentry drone with same yield than the one we have for spaces with very big roids to make mining drones a thing again outside of HS

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Iain Cariaba
#2 - 2016-06-05 05:51:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Iain Cariaba
Kiddoomer wrote:

  • stick close to the asteroid mined(<5000 meters) from an asteroid for a decent use of their yield, which can lead to problem if it's a very big asteroid (veldspar, spodumain and some nullsec/wormhole space ones), these rocks tend to have some issues "hitbox-wise" which can make you bump them while you're not touching them visually

  • be in threat of either rats (LS/NS rats that is) or PVP threats, because it can take way more time than a squadron of light drones to put them back in the drone bay, to be able then to undock combat or ecm drones.

  • be even more slowboater when mining in fleet, because instead of having the mining ships grouped in a ore site, they have to scatter to stick close to each of their designated asteroid if they use mining drones, which can lead to other issues with long distances between asteroid with no fitting rooms for AB/MWD of cruiser size (be it exhumer or mining barge except the smallest one), and short maximum locking range (37.5 km) for miners to help each others with combat drones.

1. Position yourself above or below the rock, depending on the rock's location in the belt. This will give you a hitbox free path to warp out.

2. Learn to use the menu option that says "Abandon Drones." Abandon the mining drones, then pop combat drones. Once combat is done, recall the combat drones and reconnect to the mining drones.

3a. If you're mining in a fleet, don't bother with mining drones. The boosts you should be getting from the fleet more than make up for leaving them in your drone bay.

3b. As far as refitting, they make these wonderful things called mobile depots. Since you're already pretty much stationary while mining, it's not a hassle to have one already deployed.

3c. If you're needing a prop mod on a mining barge, you need to take a look at your basic mining practices. For cherry picking ores from a belt, you're better serves by a judicious use of bookmarks. Bookmark the clusters of higher end ores that you're trying to mine, usually clustered around the +10% rocks. Use a fast frigate to make yourself a 200-250km bookmark above or below the plane of the belt. When you've mined out a pocket, warp to the distant bookmark, and warp back to the next pocket.

Even if you could fit an AB onto a mining barge, warping out and back is still faster than burning any real distance. Yeah, the procurer and skiff can get >500/600 m/s respectively, but that's only by sacrificing both yield and tank to fit the AB. The next fastest hull is the Hulk, which can just barely clear 300 m/s. In the time it would take you to warp 200km and back, the Hulk would burn a whole 10km.


Mining drones are well placed for their intended purpose, which is to give the solo highsec miner a little boost to their abysmally low income. The reason you don't know of other people in EvE using mining drones on a regular basis is because they've trained past them. With decent skills and boosts, they're just not worth the time to use them, nor do they need to be.

I know you use mining drones because you want the extra isk you get by using them. Right now, a good portion of the miners in EvE don't use them because they're a hassle. Take away that hassle, and a lot more will use them. When that happens, you'll quickly find mineral/ore prices dropping as the increased yields hit the market.
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#3 - 2016-06-05 08:40:28 UTC
Well, I actually do or know every point you mentionned from 1 to 3c and I agree with them. It's just that I dont recall skills or drones/modules that are only good for a given security space in the game.
I agree that these mining drones are a only a slight boost in yield, but making the mining drones skill useful for HS only is not a good thing imo.

Another thing with the big asteroid and mining drones is that they orbit it when mining, if the asteroid has a radius of 3 km, drones could come back to haul the ore from the opposite side of the asteroid, thus wasting time with their sluggish speed, I tried using drone computers but it doesn't help enough.

About the boost in yield, more ships will be able to mine themselves like the rorqual with his mining drone coming with its rebalance around fall, so I don't think that the yield of the sentry will cause problem next to the way bigger yield than the upcoming one.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2016-06-05 09:17:09 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
Well, I actually do or know every point you mentionned from 1 to 3c and I agree with them. It's just that I dont recall skills or drones/modules that are only good for a given security space in the game.
I agree that these mining drones are a only a slight boost in yield, but making the mining drones skill useful for HS only is not a good thing imo.


bubbles

bombs

outpost construction V and before citadel levels I-IV as well (this on not only good for a single security but a single sub section of that security)

but what can i expect from a guy who doesn't even have enough reading comprehension to make it past the title

as for every thing else


mining drones should just be removed mining has been balanced and rebalanced so many times since they were added and they have been left behind only to be used by newbros who don't know any better. hell an entire line had the only source of its drop removed and was never added to any other loot pool

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Titti Sabezan
SYNDIC Unlimited
#5 - 2016-06-05 10:47:55 UTC
Wouldn't an alternative simply be to find a noob, give them a Venture, let them mine and dump the ore into your hold(s), depot(s) or can(s), then, when they ask for payment, give them what they deserve
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#6 - 2016-06-05 12:11:39 UTC
Titti Sabezan wrote:
Wouldn't an alternative simply be to find a noob, give them a Venture, let them mine and dump the ore into your hold(s), depot(s) or can(s), then, when they ask for payment, give them what they deserve



Of course it would, but that would demand social interaction outside the solipsistic bubble.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
darkneko
Come And Get Your Love
#7 - 2016-06-05 13:46:19 UTC
Just train for the rorqual. It's new drones are going to be as fast at mining as a hulk without fleet boost(if they stay the same)
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#8 - 2016-06-05 15:41:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiddoomer
darkneko wrote:
Just train for the rorqual. It's new drones are going to be as fast at mining as a hulk without fleet boost(if they stay the same)


That I can sit in it if I want now, I just want to look at the definitive numbers and tweaks before buying one or not. A 2B indutrial capital is not easy nor fast to move to a tradehub if not meeting my needs.

Bumblefck wrote:
...


I do mine and kill stuff with other people thank you, but mining drones have nothing to do with mining in group or solo, since boosts dont change jacksh*t for them, and they dont really make that much of a difference for a mining op, especially the fuel (ice) one.

Titti Sabezan wrote:
Wouldn't an alternative simply be to find a noob, give them a Venture, let them mine and dump the ore into your hold(s), depot(s) or can(s), then, when they ask for payment, give them what they deserve


All of the "noobs" I mine with fly retriever and procurer, these are so fast to train that people really wanting to mine/industruy dont bother with ventures more than 1/2 month. And about noobs, they have so many things to train than having if they want to train the mining drone only a slight boost and only for HS is like not very smart design-wise.
But as Lugh Crow-Slave said these mining drones are very old and haven't changed a bit since quite some years if not more.

As for removing all the mining drones now, a miner has so few things to do (including dscan) that removing one of these few things for no other reason than it's "useless" is not ok either, besides they're not useless they're just good only for a specific part of the game.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#9 - 2016-06-05 19:26:56 UTC
The only time I used mining drones was to mine some Lyavite.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Rosira
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-06-08 05:46:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Rosira
Mining drones are fine as they are currently. Only change I'd make is for Ice mining drones that dronehandle a block back to the ship each cycle, these maybe would be of a larger size than regular drones.

If your careful without placement as others have said bumping off a rock is a lesser issue and you should be taking time always to ensure your way out is clear before you need to use it.
Whether your with a fleet or solo the time to exchange from mining to combat is of little concern as the rats tend to arrive at a distance and if your smart you'll have some basic tank. Vs players your best defence is to not be there and if that means leaving the drones behind that's a small price to pay for not losing a ship, keeping a eye on local/Intel and mining aligned to your safe point will see you out of harm most times by vigilance.