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Increase Wardec Prices

Author
Koteth Silverwolf
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-05-28 22:25:50 UTC
Please increase the wardec prices, picture below is an example why it should be increased.

http://i.imgur.com/Q8FQyVn.png?

1 alliance can pay around 5 bil to wardec 97 corporations and get easy kills by camping gates and stations in high sec.

How is this a problem?

Here are a few examples to show why this is a problem:

1. These corporations are able to shoot alot of people in highsec without concord going against them.

2. Trial players get caught in the crossfire when they join a corp that is wardecced by one of these wardec alliances and they cant move around highsec freely anymore which ruins their EVE experience.

3. Industrial corporations that are there for industry and have no interest in PVP can fall apart from a single wardec.

How this can be fixed

Raise wardec prices to at least 500 mil.
Serves as an isk sink since these guys are still going to wardec
Makes it harder for them to wardec just to make their killboard look good.
Iain Cariaba
#2 - 2016-05-28 22:46:07 UTC
Redundant thread is redundant.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=465220
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=459389
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=437009

Just three of the ten threads on the first page of searching "wardec price"

Thread has been reported, as this redundant topic has been discussed almost as much as ganking nerfs.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2016-05-28 23:03:37 UTC
Koteth Silverwolf wrote:
Please increase the wardec prices, picture below is an example why it should be increased.

http://i.imgur.com/Q8FQyVn.png?

1 alliance can pay around 5 bil to wardec 97 corporations and get easy kills by camping gates and stations in high sec.

How is this a problem?

Here are a few examples to show why this is a problem:

1. These corporations are able to shoot alot of people in highsec without concord going against them.

2. Trial players get caught in the crossfire when they join a corp that is wardecced by one of these wardec alliances and they cant move around highsec freely anymore which ruins their EVE experience.

3. Industrial corporations that are there for industry and have no interest in PVP can fall apart from a single wardec.

How this can be fixed

Raise wardec prices to at least 500 mil.
Serves as an isk sink since these guys are still going to wardec
Makes it harder for them to wardec just to make their killboard look good.


If you make the wardecs cost more, the wardeccers will band together so they can reduce their cost. It's exactly what happened the last time they were increased. When they band together, it's even worse for the target as they have even more people who want to shoot them than if they had gotten declared on by only 1 corp/alliance instead of the new mega alliance those cost increase would bring.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
Transgress
#4 - 2016-05-28 23:11:10 UTC
Koteth Silverwolf wrote:

How this can be fixed

give mercs tools to do focused wars again
currently the mechanics facilitate mass decking and hub camping, its the only reliable way to find targets
price isnt an issue , if they can maintain 100(ish) wars constantly at the current cost they will do so at a higher one.
i know these people , i have flown with some of them , the problem is not one of cost.

if you want to fix this something like locator agents no longer running on offline players is the way to go about it.
we had our content gutted , this is what most have been left with.
we told ye that exactly this would happen if there were no surrounding balance regarding tracking and locating players when the watch-list went away.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#5 - 2016-05-28 23:18:32 UTC
OP, you can only have your wardec fee increases if (and only if) there is a 5000% Environmental Protection Tax on the sale of mining lasers and the use of industrial facilities. This is obviously the correct thing to do as the environment cannot fight back against the hordes of rapacious miners and industrialists.


Protect the environment!

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
Transgress
#6 - 2016-05-28 23:27:50 UTC
Koteth Silverwolf wrote:

1. These corporations are able to shoot alot of people in highsec without concord going against them.

2. Trial players get caught in the crossfire when they join a corp that is wardecced by one of these wardec alliances and they cant move around highsec freely anymore which ruins their EVE experience.

3. Industrial corporations that are there for industry and have no interest in PVP can fall apart from a single wardec.

1) precisely the point

2) extremely bad form recruiting trial players under wardec if you cant either protect them or facilitate them doing so themselvs

3) and ...
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#7 - 2016-05-29 00:09:01 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Koteth Silverwolf wrote:

How this can be fixed

give mercs tools to do focused wars again
currently the mechanics facilitate mass decking and hub camping, its the only reliable way to find targets
price isnt an issue , if they can maintain 100(ish) wars constantly at the current cost they will do so at a higher one.
i know these people , i have flown with some of them , the problem is not one of cost.

if you want to fix this something like locator agents no longer running on offline players is the way to go about it.
we had our content gutted , this is what most have been left with.
we told ye that exactly this would happen if there were no surrounding balance regarding tracking and locating players when the watch-list went away.

This.

I also believed there would be mass wardecs when my beloved watchlist was removed for nefarious reasons. I had to retire from what I loved doing (solo highsec wardecs) and a couple of corporations have fallen after I fought them. There were many, many corps I fought that had newbies in it, and their CEO/leaders not informing them of the wardec was not my fault at all.

In one instance, it was 12 minutes before the start of a wardec and I noticed a newbie mining in a Venture in a system that I knew the corporation I wardecced flew around. I actually had this corporation set to red for a week, watching them and seeing patterns before I set the wardec on them. I flew and got my Hound, flew back into system, cloaked up and sat 6km off of her while she mined. At 4 minutes to go, the asteroid popped and I feared she would run, but she still sat there.

She was scrammed and first salvo of missiles left my Hound's torpedo bay seven seconds after the start of the war. Both her Venture and her pod popped in explosive goodness within 15 seconds of the war starting. During that war, I popped several newbies, following their deaths with an email asking if they were told they were at war and what kind of preparation they were given by their CEOs.

Each one responded saying they had no clue what was going on and the CEO of that corporation was still recruiting while the war was going on. Everyone talks about new player retention, but I believe that every one of those newbies that I have killed and then educated on how to protect themselves during a war is still playing to this day.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#8 - 2016-05-29 01:14:36 UTC
Why should small groups of newer players be cut out from participating in this gameplay?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#9 - 2016-05-29 01:21:50 UTC
This is a pvp game. For pvp'ing. Yes even for industrial corps.
Don't want to be wardecced? Don't be in a player corp. (implement social corps already)

As people are hinting at, one big problem with the npe is corps lead by complete ******* morons, with no intention or capability of teaching new players how to play/survive, spamming invites to new players to skim corp tax off them. In the good old days these corps were decced or awoxed before they could suck in too many noobs.

Fun fact; shortly after decs were last made more expensive eve started seeing falls in subscription. Before that, subscriptions grew every year.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Lugh Crow-Slave
#10 - 2016-05-29 01:44:24 UTC
not sure they need to implement social corps what they need to do is fix the war dec system. There are major issues on both sides of the dec that make the entire thing a joke of game design
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#11 - 2016-05-29 10:05:25 UTC
Koteth Silverwolf wrote:
1. These corporations are able to shoot alot of people in highsec without concord going against them.
Working as intended, the wardec fee is a licence to hunt other player groups in hisec without Concord interfering.

Quote:
2. Trial players get caught in the crossfire when they join a corp that is wardecced by one of these wardec alliances and they cant move around highsec freely anymore which ruins their EVE experience.
That has more to do with incompetent corp leadership than it does wardecs.

Quote:
3. Industrial corporations that are there for industry and have no interest in PVP can fall apart from a single wardec.
This is a PvP game, industry is very much PvP.

Quote:
How this can be fixed

Raise wardec prices to at least 500 mil.
Serves as an isk sink since these guys are still going to wardec
Makes it harder for them to wardec just to make their killboard look good.
The only thing that'll achieve is the smaller wardec groups joining together to share resources, intel and the costs of waging war. This exact scenario happened in the past, and it'll happen again if CCP raise the costs of a wardec further; the people that'll feel the brunt of such a change are the people you claim to want to protect.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Lugh Crow-Slave
#12 - 2016-05-29 10:50:32 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

Quote:
2. Trial players get caught in the crossfire when they join a corp that is wardecced by one of these wardec alliances and they cant move around highsec freely anymore which ruins their EVE experience.
That has more to do with incompetent corp leadership than it does wardecs.




as some one who trains CEOs this one bugs me


no matter how well equipped you are new players are going to die in a war dec if you live in HS unless you restrict their gameplay to a point that they quit because its no fun. This is because no matter how well you try to explain to a newbro how to act in a war they don't understand untill they get hit a few times.

now i don't agree this ruins the eve experience if anything it gives them a fuller eve experience but don't go around blaming leadership for something that is an unavoidable game-play mechanic.
Cyrus Tybalt
Blap n Pew
#13 - 2016-05-29 11:16:58 UTC
Maybe trial players should get a warning message when they try to apply to join a corporation that has been wardecced?
Heiluri
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2016-05-29 11:24:12 UTC
Cyrus Tybalt wrote:
Maybe trial players should get a warning message when they try to apply to join a corporation that has been wardecced?


I see why not, though just make it standard popup that you can click never show again on.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#15 - 2016-05-29 11:35:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
not sure that's the best option as it wont help the ones getting spammed with invites by corps that are just trying to skim taxs off them.They will just tell the new player it's nothing to worry about and lie if they have to. But it may hurt the ones who are honest with new players.

either way war decs are good for newbros i have found it reinvigorates interest rather than drives them away. i have seen very few quit because of it but i have seen plenty who were getting tired of mining and mission running get pushed into pvp and break out of their comfort zone. the ones who cant stand it and get turned off by it genneraly drop corp not the game
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#16 - 2016-05-29 11:42:10 UTC
Cyrus Tybalt wrote:
Maybe trial players should get a warning message when they try to apply to join a corporation that has been wardecced?


Not just trial players.
But if you look at corporation recruitment ads it already tells you when they are under a wardec. Though i wonder how many new players understand what that actually means.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#17 - 2016-05-29 13:41:00 UTC
Before a response to a few things how about NO.
War dec groups will spend billions of ISK every week do you really think that raising the cost will make any difference?

Off to some responses to some other posts.

Daichi Yamato wrote:
Fun fact; shortly after decs were last made more expensive eve started seeing falls in subscription. Before that, subscriptions grew every year.

Far to many changes made in the game at the same time to draw this conclusion.
Was it the war dec changes that caused players to quit?
Or was it some of the other changes implemented at the same time?
Maybe it was a combination of people leaving for all of these reasons?
My opinion is that it was a combination of all of the changes that occurred that drove all those people out. And here is the important part, I have no hard data to prove my opinion and you have no hard data to prove yours because even if CCP has data on it they have not released it to the public.

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
not sure they need to implement social corps what they need to do is fix the war dec system. There are major issues on both sides of the dec that make the entire thing a joke of game design

And here is the basics of the entire problem, a completely broken system.
The problem will be how to change it so it works better for everyone, especially when those inside the war dec community community cannot make up their minds what if any thing at all needs to change.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#18 - 2016-05-29 18:07:07 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
not sure they need to implement social corps what they need to do is fix the war dec system. There are major issues on both sides of the dec that make the entire thing a joke of game design

And here is the basics of the entire problem, a completely broken system.
The problem will be how to change it so it works better for everyone, especially when those inside the war dec community community cannot make up their minds what if any thing at all needs to change.

Broken or not, there is a fundamental issue at play here:

Industrialists and self-described PvE players want more protections and/or structure to warfare (to make it more "fair") along with ways to end a war early and outright.
Aggressive corporations/alliances want more warfare and ways to wage war (usually without having to go through a tedious timer/SOV-lite system that makes null-sec so soul-crushingly boring).

No matter what changes you make, one of these groups is going to "lose" because the things they want are mutually exclusive.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2016-05-29 18:38:36 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:


No matter what changes you make, one of these groups is going to "lose" because the things they want are mutually exclusive.


This is the key point to this whole debate. Every suggestion done is always bad for one side. The argument will never stop unless CCP decide to set it's foot down and make one side inexistant.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
Transgress
#20 - 2016-05-29 19:34:48 UTC
actually right now a lot of us would settle for a locator buff.
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