Crime & Punishment

So here are the scams so you can avoid them. That's just a list, with no indication of how often they may occur.

Youre joining a corp in an online game, not getting married. Its not till death does you part ( technically its longer than that since you will probably die multiple times in the same corp) . Think of it as a high end job interview. Where you interview the corp and they interview you.

Tell the interviewer what your looking for right now and your longer term goal. Your long term goal can be anything from " im looking to try out pvp" to " i want try a bunch of different things" . They arent going to expect a detailed answer as you are new and even if they did its not like 99.9% of corps care if you change your goals. Its normal in eve to change it up.

What they are going to want from you is activity and probably some corp participation and interaction. Though some corps will let you completely 100% solo. If you get stuck on something or you are trying to figure it out you ask in corp instead of writing forum post and googling it. Its way faster.

The corp will tell you what they expect from you, and you can tell them what your looking for. If it sounds good to you and them you join. If you decide you want to do something else or your goals no longer match that of corps or whatever, you leave and join a new one. You can also write a "resume" post on the recruitment forums. Though i advise you to be cautious there as some responders will literally cut and paste a generic response to every new thread. If they dont have to time to read your post and write out a response to you specifically, then you dont have time for them.



On an alt of mine that has 3 mil sp and just over 1 mil of that is in passive no combat skills such as science, scanning, reprocessing, trading, etc. I went out in guristas space in an astero( scanning frig). It was setup up for scanning. speed tanked with an ancillary armor repper. I used 4 t1 warrior drones which is the wrong type for guristas and had no weapons.

In 20 minutes, i did 3 anomalies. 2 hideaways( the worst paying anoms) and a refuge. I made 150k in bounty( about 2/3rds of that off the refuge but you can literally do a hideaway in a rookie starter ship) . The loot is worth 500k ( no salvage) if you believe the estimate value and worth 250k reprocessed ( all in the nearest NPC station). I would say the loot would fetch me another 200k at least conservatively. I also got a faction spawn from the refuge. The faction spawn( which isnt typical but does happen) had a 112k bounty and it dropped a tag and faction rockets which is worth another 20k conservatively.

So i spent 20 minutes doing combat including looking for anoms maybe another 5 to 10 minutes hauling IF i haul it to a major hub right now( im 5 jumps from jita) and in that 20 minutes i made at least 450k and probably closer to 600k. That was in a crappy ship for combat that literally does 30 dps (A rookie ship with some regular mods will almost do that). Investing about 1 to 1.5 million isk into a combat frigate and mods will triple the DPS. One of my alts runs a 40 mil isk hawk assault frig in high sec anoms and can easily make 5-6 mil an hour, more if he gets faction spawns.

In null i can make about 50 mil an hour killing rats in belts or anoms lazily. If im trying, 100 mil/hr more if im plexing( running complexes)

If you are only mining for isk, its not even worth it because:
1) While technically mining pays better in the very beginning if you mine higher end high sec ores, low skill combat ships quickly surpass low skill mining ships in isk/hr.
2) Combat gives you a lot more options to make isk than mining. To make more isk mining you either have to invest more SP, more isk, or go to riskier space and usually all 3. Combat allows you do a variety of things to make isk: Missions, anoms, complexes, rarely but sometimes pvp.
3) If pvp is a long term goal of yours, your killing two birds with one stone by skipping mining and focusing on combat. Your putting your skills into combat which both benefit your ability to pvp and your ability to make isk. If your dumping isk and sp in mining, your spending isk and sp on what is essentially a dead end career for you.
4) Learning to kill stuff in low level missions and in anoms will help you learn how to fly in combat. Its not the same as pvp, but it will help you learn the basics of combat, tanking, and fitting ships.

Also if you "grind missions" for a certain corp( such as caldari navy or any of the other navies) and at agents you can get access to higher level missions which pay much better. Combat missions are the best pay. You can also blitz a lot of missions( just like what it sounds like). Missions also pay loyalty points which can be used to buy faction ships, mods, ammo. Caldari Navy mods and ships are high demand for example because caldari ships are primarily used for pve and everyone wants to maximize isk/hr. vexor navy issue cruisers( gallente faction) are also in high demand. So LP is often converted to a cash value because you can make isk off the items you buy with LP.

I just want to hit a few points here and there.



you really dont need to. I know of like 3-4 people in real life who play eve, and yet i rarely ever fly with them. 99% of the people i fly with, i do not know in real life other than through chat or voice comms.


This is sort of the problem. Eve is designed as a multiplayer game. The best and easiest way for players to get started is to join a good, established corp with lots of support and infastructure.

There is literally ZERO commitment in Eve. I can join a corp tomorrow, and decide to leave the next day. The only commitment is the effort you place into a corp.

Most solo players are experienced and have a decent amount of isk. Going Solo is on a higher level than playing alongside other people.

By not joining a corp and going it solo, and complaining how hard it is, you are essentially buying a copy of Call Of Duty for the first time, and playing the single player campaign on hardcore mode, while complaining that you keep dying and cant progress 5 meters.



Actually, there is. There are many new player friendly corps that would be happy to provide you with FREE ships to fly around and die in. FREE ships. FREE.

Your reluctance to join corporations prevents you from enjoying this.



CCP decided a long time ago, that they were going to create a game that was both very hard and very rewarding. They didnt want to make a theme-park MMO like World of Warcraft, a place where anyone can join and have their hand guided and held the entire time without any risk of losing anything.

CCP understands this. They wanted to create a game like this.

It sucks to lose your ship. I know. Ive lost billions of isk worth of ships myself. But thats how EVE works. There is an inherent risk tied with everything you do. And quite frankly, this makes the game more rewarding, more enjoyable.

One death in World of warcraft is meaningless. You lose nothing.

One death in EVE, and you have the potential to lose everything. Every kill, every death, is meaningful, is worth something.

And thats the great thing about EVE.

If you dont like that, if you want to play a game where you can die a thousand times and not lose a thing, where you have nothing to risk and nothing to lose, then I am sorry to say that maybe this game isnt for you.

Whoa! You can't close sekert Code threads until the actual New Order posters get their say.

To the OP,

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.

You may not realize it but Sabriz was the person who actually gave you the best advice in this whole thread. She gave you an honest and factual account of what the effect of AFK mining in highsec would result in. You should always pay more attention to the person who says WHAT they are going to do than to some of the posters who fell they can say WHY we do what we do.

There is a long history of threads like these with commenters who simultaneously claim that highsec ganking is no big deal while giving a page and a half of advice on how to avoid it. The truth is if the gankers want you they will get you. The best you can hope for, and this applies across Eve, is to be able to regroup, learn from the experience and move on forward. The comments that imply that the gankers are somehow harmful, or at the same time, ineffective, or localized or "griefers" don't properly direct you in the best path forward to a long and successful Eve career.

Contrary to your OP and later comments, and reinforcing comments from the risk-adverse crowd, the best thing you can do in Eve is lose ships. Early and often. Once you see them as throwaway items, useful for their life but easily and quickly replaced after their loss, you will find the excitement and enjoyment that long time players find and that keeps them coming back. Trying to nurse a Retriever to survive for a miserable month of AFK mining is going to ruin the game for you. Same goes for flying Procurers. You are somewhat right in your assertion that no normal person could stand mining AT keyboard for very long but still, if you are going to play a game, you should at least, you know... play it.

Other posters have also alluded to the debate as to what the true purpose of highsec miners is in Eve. Some say, as you have, that its a way for new players to get their feet wet and to get enough ISK to move into PvP. This turns out to be foolish when you look at the results. Newbie highsec miners become veteran highsec miners or they quit. Mining skills do not translate to other ships, mining attitudes are a combination of risk-adversion and maximum gain for minimum effort thinking. Neither of these is the training a future null-sec pvp god should nuture, or frankly even starts off with. The very best you can hope for is to become one of the pets of the null sec pvpers where you grind the minerals needed to provide ships to the real wolves of your organization. No matter whether you are working for the Caldari State or TEST, you are still a slave.

So, for frees and with no expected repayment, I will explain to you what a highsec miner exists for.

He exists to be shot. Like AFK haulers, autopiloters, and drone armed mission runners across highsec their purpose is to be hunted down and killed by the pvpers. Think about it. If you were designing a game and you wanted plentiful targets you would create a low skill requirement, inattentive, easily located and easy to kill prey . You would make them fun to kill by rewarding the killers with loot, angry tears and a feeling of superiority. You would limit the reward for the pilots who choose to fly the target ships in order to get them to move on to other things so they won't quit from actual alternatiing boredom and sheer terror. What's that sound like to you?

It sounds like highsec mining to me.

But there's good news. You don't actually have to ever mine to move forward in this game. Shoot red crosses if you must but even better, get a Catalyst, train a handful of days, and then go shoot someone in the face. Because this is New Citizens I can't TELL you where to go learn all about this in the text. Fortunately, the rules are somewhat looser about what appears in the Post script. I advise you to at least look it over. Even if you continue mining for a bit longer, its much better advice on how to survive the situation than you get from random gank victims.

OP:
I have to say that is a lot of reading... luckily I was bored. Most miners say what you have said.. I only mine to buy better ships. Sometimes they even say PvP ships. I have yet to meet a miner that has actually done just that. Way back in the old days I used to mine. I mined to get better ships and skill books. Mind you learning skills were still a thing back then. The trap I fell into was mining for the isk to buy better mining equipment. It was a lifeless circle and I never went away from my keyboard.

Things started changing when I got a friend to play eve and he asked how to make isk. I got him started mining for about 2 minutes when he said f-this and never played eve again. When I asked him whats up he informed me that he was a RL miner and he was not going to mine in a game.

I got him back in with the promise of never mining again and we blew up a bot. We knew it was a bot because there was no response in local. We bumped the mack away from the ice field and eventually warped away and came back to the exact spot. The ice fields back then never ran out.

We grabbed a couple of cruisers and popped it. Docked up and came out after a few minutes. Watched the pod go back and forth from the station to the field. We considered popping the pod but we didn't. Next day we received the email asking why we blew here up.

Moral of this is that there is more to eve than mining. The career agents give you a start on what you may want to do. AFK mining means your not really playing the game. Even if you have the IGB open and reading while your waiting for the cycle to finish.

You should be paying attention to local. If you did not know... you can drag that local tab and resize it. You also need to pay attention to your overview in case someone comes on grid with you. When you can't pay full attention to what you are doing then dock up.

There are actually a few good corps and alliance out there. Brave Newbies and Eve Uni are two that I can think of right off the bat.

Try not to make Eve a second job and EvE stands for Everybody Vs. Everybody and is about blowing up spaceships not staring at a mining laser.

I'm curious why you think highsec mining would be less boring if there was no risk of being attacked by other players? The only thing that makes it anything other than an excercise in looking up the max yield fit and clicking a few times an hour is the uncertainty provided by the other players. This is one of the reasons that CCP purposely keeps all players at risk in this game.

Another of course, is to generate the motivation to shoot other players and create content in a game where the content is suppose to be created by the players. Sounds like it is working and you now have a purpose - to stand up to the "space bullies" and defend the innocent of New Eden. Things are never as black and while as they seem though, and exploring morality (good vs. evil) and the consequences of player decisions is one of the central themes of the game. You are suppose to feel strongly about actions and the events that take place in the game and what you are fighting for.

Plenty of good advice has been offered on the practicality of avoiding being the victim of highsec aggression in this thread so far so I won't offer anything along those lines. I just wanted to say welcome to Eve! Pick a side and fight for what you believe in.

I think all of us, new and old, should take some time on occasion to reflect on the true nature of the unique shared universe we all play in. In that spirit, I will quote our friend CCP Falcon on what type of game Eve is designed to be:

"Most suicide gankers know not to mess with rookie players that are less than 30 days old.".

Lies.

Neither is this a rule nor do we know it.

Once you step outside the starter system, you're toast.

They HAVE.

The mining frigates were a very recent introduction and are designed for "ninja" mining in dangerous space; you go into lowsec, null, or wormhole space, uncloak, fill up the rather small hold with extremely valuable ore, and bug out, making MORE money (or minerals, if you're keeping them for production) than hours of mining in high-sec.

LOTS of people play like that; CCP has published stats.

They just didn't remove the barges. Instead of removing the barges, they just made absolutely no changes or improvements to the barges for years, and they let CODE and the hulkageddon crew provide the dis-incentive to boring mining in high sec.

Threads like this are happening because CODE et al are effective at providing a dis-incentive to high-sec mining, but are not effective at advertising or teaching newbies that non-boring mining options exist with the mining frigate - T2 mining frigate lines of ships.

Ultimately, the game rewards players who think for themselves a little bit, and realize that high-sec is a ******, crowded newbie zone, and there are other options. We try to point people to where the fun is, but they often have notions that solo mining in Jita is what the game is limited to.

Back to the question of the OP... AFK? I don't. If I ever need to go AFK, and I do, I dock up. Period.

I have in real life a disease that requires me to step away from my keyboard often without notice, and sometimes for quite a few minutes. I won't do AFK in EVE or usually any MMO. Doesn't make sense.

So do I think AFK Miners should get blown up? Nope. I don't Mine to make ISK so I don't get excited when I see someone else get popped, I would rather they have the smarts to just dock up if needed.

I wish mining wasnt so boring or paid so terribly( though i think it does pay better now than it did before barges and the like had ore holds and we got new mining ships) . I might would do it more often than almost never. But i dont think you can make it any more fun without actually upsetting the balance of the game.

Its just ones of those things that you either love it or hate it. I know miners that find it relaxing. I guess to them its like sitting on the bank fishing or sitting on the front porch reading a book. Id rather go fishing or read a book. But to each his own.