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Crime & Punishment

 
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Blowing up AFK miners. What do you think?

First post
Author
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2016-05-23 09:58:34 UTC
I did not read your entire text wall but have a few comments:

the gankers are not going anywhere. CCP made some changed and then brought in a lot of propaganda to make that happen. CCP gankers are doing exactly what CCP wants. This is the game play that the devs support and encourage. Probably the only game play encouraged more by the devs is large null sec wars that get headlines. I'm not saying you have to like it I'm just telling you that trying to talk the devs out of it won't happen.

My second comment is that high sec is not safe and if you want to be safeish then move to null sec space. I moved to null sec to avoid PvP and it has worked out well for me. Of course you can't go to just any null sec system. You'll have to do some research and join a corp that gives you some protection and access to intel channels but it can be done.

There are mining systems in this game that are very deep in null sec and almost never see any red activity. You can afk mine in systems like that, or at least semi afk mine.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Sitting Bull Lakota
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2016-05-23 10:37:18 UTC
Blood Retributor wrote:
Lots of fun, right? You know how they call in the army the "bold" (courageous, daring, etc.) newbies who get into stuff without being prepared or ready? Reckless idiots! Dangerous to themselves and even worse to others.

I think I know exactly which corp you need to join Cool

Seriously though, you aren't an Erebus pilot for PL (maybe (-.-), your response to Tau was a bit too well organized for a week old player)
Throw caution to the wind and have some fun in this game you pay for!
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2016-05-23 11:51:03 UTC
EVE is about risk vs reward balance (mostly, cough incursions cough)

Mining afk may yield a higher return in terms of attention spent on the game, how it's riskier as you may get blown up while doing it.

Memphis Baas
#24 - 2016-05-23 12:14:42 UTC
So, a few things I wanted to say:

1. This is a PVP game, blowing up ships is THE FUN in this game. That's what they're there for. You don't play chess to babysit the pawns or make them line-dance, or pretend that the rook is a bouncy castle; you move all your pieces and get them into dangerous positions and sacrifice them to achieve checkmate, which is a win of the game for YOU. The winning king isn't going to live happily ever after, lording over 2 kingdoms. It's the same with EVE, you can roleplay if you want, but ultimately it's a PVP strategy game and the spaceships are pawns and bishops and knights, to be sacrificed for your entertainment.

So you're at step 0: gathering the pieces (ships) so you can put them on the board and play a game. Don't "avoid as long and as often as possible" because the only way you'll learn is to play the PVP.



2. Most of us started as solo players, but making friends is easy, because everyone is interested in the game. Again with the chess analogy, if you log into a chess forum, all you have to say is "hey anyone want to play against a rookie?" and you'll get plenty of matches. Nobody cares where you are, what you do, and what kind of person you are, and nobody is risking more than 30 minutes that may be wasted trying to play chess badly. Your goal shouldn't be to stay solo.

And the main reason for finding a group is this: this is a sandbox game, means you're given some toys and expected to find your own way of playing with them. And, let's face it, you've found mining, the absolutely most boring activity in the game. As a kid, a simple doll was sufficient for HOURS of entertainment, but as I grew up, my own invented stories can't really entertain me; they may entertain others, but I already know all the details. So I need to participate in a group, so that the group's plans and goals and stories can entertain ME. That's what a good corp gives you: organized operations, FUN. Someone else (typically the CEO and the directors) does all the work to organize something, and you just participate. They often reimburse your ship, if you lose it. You just get the pure fun out of the experience, no other losses.



3. You may play however you wish, AFK if you wish, but the game is designed a certain way, and if you play against that design, others will take advantage. You want to play chess against 10-year veterans while watching TV instead of concentrating, that's fine, but I'm not sure you'll win. We're trying to help with the advice in this forum, so we'll likely point out how the game is intended to be played, with the understanding that you can do whatever you want, as long as you don't blame us for the consequences.
Blood Retributor
#25 - 2016-05-23 12:59:53 UTC
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:

I personally do not believe in AFK playing.

I totally respect that.

Quote:
You said something about playing solo. This game is not meant to be played solo. It is a social game.

I do not intend to stay solo forever, never was my intention. It will take time though to figure out who do I want to join. As I mentioned before, I want to know in advance what I am getting into. I already got about 10 invitations to join different corps, should have I joined one of them already? You don't have to answer, I know it from my reading Cool.

Quote:
Mining is probably one of the worst active activities to make money in this game. Indy people swear up and down its a good way to make money

Respectfully disagree here. For a noob, especially for a total noob to both Eve and online MMORG. If you are not too bored Lol with this post check my reply to Tau regarding mission running.

Quote:
You are far better off, especially if you dislike mining, to invest your money in a combat ship

That's what I want to do. This why I am mining

Quote:
and run missions.

Not so sure about this one. So far mining is more profitable than missions (for me, at least).

One step at a time ...

Blood Retributor
#26 - 2016-05-23 13:15:53 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
If you only want to go for the low-hanging fruit ..


Well, not really! This why I am doing a lot of reading. To find out what is the high-hanging fruit (for me) and how to get there.
Mining is the best activity for now.

The only thing that bothered me (and that's why I started this topic) is that there are people who will go out of their way to prevent me and others like me (clueless noobs). And why?

Because:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
market manipulators and wealthy, bored nullsec players donate large amounts of ISK to our cause just to watch highsec burn

and
Quote:
there's nothing quite like the feeling of blowing up a ship that's worth 10 times your entire wealth in EVE using a cheap low-skilled Catalyst[/b][/u]


And I said before, thanks to CPP people like me still have a chance to get out of the Eve's nursery, despite the efforts of some to watch it burn.

One step at a time ...

Blood Retributor
#27 - 2016-05-23 13:30:38 UTC
Sykaotic wrote:

2). do the career missions.... maybe do pve missions after that to make a bit of isk............---> then go pvp


I will comment on that in a post below (Tau)

Quote:
3). Not uncommon for brand new players to get into a frig and go pvp... maybe use one of your other slots to join a pvp corp and try it out... you might like it!

That's my plan Big smile! The only thing is that I share the mentality of another veteran who mentioned in another topic on this forum:
Quote:
Get 100 Rifters and go get blown up. Learn from your mistakes. Repeat.


Not exactly these words, but 100 Rifters for sure.

One step at a time ...

Lisbeth Riraille
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2016-05-23 13:32:59 UTC
I'll just add that CODE players are not by any neans soread out throughout all of hisec. You're unlikely to meet one. That said, you should take reasonable precautions when you mine. Ventures are fast and you can cheapfit one that'll have a chance of getting away, but they're not for afk mining anywhere.

Procurers. Ask for a tank-fit on Help channel. You'll be fine with that, probably.

A good nullsec corp that welcomes noobs and is part of an alliance is your best bet though. CODE don't go to nullsec because they get killed.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#29 - 2016-05-23 13:34:42 UTC
Quote:
they're nothing more than wanna be PvP'rs. They found a way to make the game mechanics work for them and as such they exploit it as much as they can, regardless if it's against a new or old player



So, people are basically playing the game as it was intended to be played (to wit: using the mechanics as provided by CCP for actions that CCP has not specifically forbidden) and interacting with other players, and this is a bad thing? How can they possibly be 'wanna be PVP'rs' if they are indeed engaging against other players? The fact that the other player may just happen to be in a barge or whatever else is largely irrelevant - certain subscribers to the game are engaging other subscribers, with tangible consequences to the rest of the game. That is what matters, the fact that because CODE or whoever are shooting other people and not red crosses. That pretty much, to me, seems to sum up 'Everyone Versus Everyone'.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2016-05-23 13:46:04 UTC
Just accept the risk that comes with afking, maybe it will pay off, maybe it won't

Playing the game actively is always going to make you more isk/fun per hour than afking.

Prime example is exploration is by FAR the most lucrative activity in terms of sp to isk ratio when a newbro is starting out.
Blood Retributor
#31 - 2016-05-23 13:53:20 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
My first combat level 1 missions were in an Ibis with a single drone. The drone did most of the work. By the time I was doing level 4 missions, I think I was averaging around 10m per missions, plus salvage and sale of drops. These days I do a couple missions a month to earn LP for charters for my tower, usually level 3 missions using an Assault Frigate, because I find that fun.

Tau, I really appreciate your time that you put into sharing your experience. I am learning from you guys a lot, believe it or not.

Regarding to mission running, I can say that they are good for learning the game mechanics and how to use different tools for their intended purposes. As for getting ISK to get decent ships and fittings, not so much.

I ran the whole Business Agent line. Well I got some isk. The last 10th mission was the most disapointing. Spent four hours of game time and about 2 mil isk (from my mining). Yes, the money spending was my mistake - bought the wrong ore for reprocessing the first time (hey, I am a total noob after all). And after all that I got a 600k isk industrial ship I have no idea what to do with. I guess I could sell it at a big loss.

Again, thank you Tau for sharing! It really helps.


One step at a time ...

Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#32 - 2016-05-23 14:00:22 UTC
It has been said a million times before - but to reiterate - it is easy not to be ganked mining in HS - just fly a tanked skiff or procurer and mine in a less popular system. Although ganking gets a lot of press, the chances of actually dying from a gank are very small and can be reduced to essentially zero by the above two suggestions. OFC anybody can potentially be ganked at anytime, so its best not to go around being an asshat thereby drawing the wrong type of attention to yourself, but apart from that - with minimal precautions there is simply no reason why a player cannot go through their entire eve career without being ganked.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.

Blood Retributor
#33 - 2016-05-23 14:53:01 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
I did not read your entire text wall

Don't blame you Big smile. Usually, I avoid annoying people with long walls of text (actually 99% of the time I am just quietly reading in the background).

ergherhdfgh wrote:
the gankers are not going anywhere

Good! Otherwise who do I hunt when (or if) I get the ship and have my Skills trained Lol? I will definitely not jump unsuspecting miners, especially the newbie ones.


ergherhdfgh wrote:
that trying to talk the devs out of it won't happen.

The thought did not even cross my mind. Several armed ships attacking one or more other armed ships is perfectly fine with me. Attacking unsuspecting newbie miners in hi-sec is definitely wrong, imo. So I am in total agreement with CCP devs (not that they care Big smile).

ergherhdfgh wrote:
I moved to null sec

I still have a lot to learn before venturing into null sec. The only exception might be if I decide to use a cheap frigate, that I do not mind losing in a gate ganking.

One step at a time ...

Blood Retributor
#34 - 2016-05-23 15:03:01 UTC
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:
your response to Tau was a bit too well organized for a week old player

Believe it or not I am a "week old player"! Did I mention that I am reading a lot Big smile? And I consider myself pretty good at reading between the lines.

I am part of that born in USSR generation that got burned a lot in real life (famous Perestroika and the nightmare that followed). I guess it transfers into the game space too.

One step at a time ...

Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2016-05-23 15:05:46 UTC
Blood Retributor wrote:
Pix Severus wrote:
Your post sounds like a troll, but I'll bite regardless.


I do not really know what a troll is


whenever code is mentioned in a thread its usually propaganda for code Roll thus anything with code is usually a troll, are you a code?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#36 - 2016-05-23 15:13:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Pandora Carrollon
Tipa Riot wrote:
Let's be honest about ganking ... it's a vastly exaggerated (partly by the gankers themselves, to spread the fear) risk in highsec. Stop bothering about it (the gankers fuel, tears), take some basic cautions as described, accept loss from time to time, and enjoy the game. I know it's difficult to develop the right mindset and knowledge as a newbie, but in a couple of months and more experience you will laugh about your worries today.


^^^^ THIS is a correct view ^^^^

CODE is a great deal of puffery and that over exaggeration drives the fear mongering. I tried to explain this to them in a different thread but their players don't understand how much damage their propaganda does to their own position. So, you just let them fly as they will. You just need to do as Tipa says, educate yourself and fly smart.

AFK mining is dangerous, yes, but you can still profit from it if you do it correctly. I, personally, don't do it. I may be reading up on something else or building a new fit at O.smium.org, but I'm watching my Dscan and actively listening to for warp ins when my eyes aren't focused on my ship. I also rarely mine alone, and having a corp mate doing the same thing is having two sets of eyes and ears constantly staying alert.

Be prepared to lose a ship if you fully take your attention away from the game. Just call it a cost of doing business. You may roll the dice 50 times and lose 1 ship out of that. If you build up the right ship, you won't lose it at all as Concord will arrive in time to deal with the suicide ganker(s). The build below can handle 3 gank catalysts picking on you at once (41.5k EHP):

[Procurer]
Type-D Restrained Shield Power Relay
Type-D Restrained Shield Power Relay

Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
ML-3 Scoped Survey Scanner
M51 Benefactor Compact Shield Recharger

Strip Miner I (or Ice Harvester I)

Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I

Salvage Drone I x1
Hobgoblin I x5
Hornet EC-300 x1
Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x3

It can also buff the shields of another ship mining with you (or if you a multi-account, cross buff your mining toons) and defend against RAT's as well as salvage their wrecks.

If you can skill into the fit as described above, you can AFK mine in HiSec with relative ease. If you feel more cozy, you can drop one of the power relays and put a mining laser upgrade on it to more optimize the m3 per hour.

A similar build of a Mackinaw is pretty much the gold standard but the Exhumers take a long time to skill into. The ship prices jumps from 40-ish million to 240-ish million as well. So, you'll spend a lot of time in that Procurer before you can hit the Mack.

So, don't sweat CODE or other suicide gankers. Go play your game your way and realize you have a lot of company.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2016-05-23 15:18:17 UTC
Blood Retributor wrote:
I still have a lot to learn before venturing into null sec. The only exception might be if I decide to use a cheap frigate, that I do not mind losing in a gate ganking.


Gameplay in null is very different to high sec, there's a ton of stuff you will never come across in high sec that's every day life in null.

Same with low sec.

Faster you get out of high sec, faster you actually get to play the game
Wombat65Au Egdald
R I S E
#38 - 2016-05-23 15:27:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Wombat65Au Egdald
Blood Retributor wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
My first combat level 1 missions were in an Ibis with a single drone. The drone did most of the work. By the time I was doing level 4 missions, I think I was averaging around 10m per missions, plus salvage and sale of drops. These days I do a couple missions a month to earn LP for charters for my tower, usually level 3 missions using an Assault Frigate, because I find that fun.

Tau, I really appreciate your time that you put into sharing your experience. I am learning from you guys a lot, believe it or not.

Regarding to mission running, I can say that they are good for learning the game mechanics and how to use different tools for their intended purposes. As for getting ISK to get decent ships and fittings, not so much.


For low level missions, L1 and L2, the income from security missions isn't going to make you rich. If you have the patience to work your way up to level 3 missions the mission payouts get better. Level 4 security missions can pay tens of millions of isk per mission (depending on the exact mission details). There are skills in the "Social" category you can train up to improve mission rewards.

Concord is an NPC corporation that is the main "space police" of the game. Every time you blow up a hostile NPC "pirate" ship, Concord will pay you a bounty for it, including pirate ships you destroy in security missions. The size of the bounty depends on the type of pirate ship you blow up. Small pirate frigates pay a few thousand each. Pirate battleships can earn you a couple of million isk each, but for pirate battleships, the only time you'll find them in hisec is by doing level 4 security missions. They can also appear as random spawns in lowsec and nullsec asteroid belts and other places.

When you complete most types of missions for NPC corporations, you'll not only be paid some isk, you'll be paid with some "loyalty points" which you can use to buy items from that NPC corp and use or sell the items to other players. This creates an extra source of income from missions, using your loyalty points to acquire items you can sell for a profit to other players.

Another way to make isk by shooting at things is "ratting". Once you leave your starter system, as you fly around from system to system you can find spawned groups of pirate ships that you can shoot at (they will shoot back). Concord will pay you bounties for every pirate ship you destroy. You can also salvage the pirate wrecks for items you can sell or use yourself. The higher the security status of the system, the weaker the pirate spawns will be, so the bounties from Concord will be smaller.

For the time being, do NOT shoot at "Circadian Seeker" ships. They show up as red like pirate ships but they are very tough and do a LOT of damage. They won't shoot at you if you leave them alone.

CCP have announced that later this week they will add a new feature to the game. After the feature is added (in a day or two), each day that you log in and destroy an NPC pirate ship (any NPC pirate ship), you will be given 10,000 skill points you can use on any skill you want to improve. You only get the free skill points for the first pirate ship you destroy each day, if you destroy 20 pirate ships in one day, only the first ship pays you the extra skill points,

Keep in mind you will have costs for missions and ratting that can lower your income, ammunition, ship insurance and maybe ship repairs will be the main costs. I personally prefer to armor tank a ship when I do PvE stuff because shields regenerate for free (just dock up in a station and your shield and capacitor will be recharged to full in a couple of seconds at no cost) but armor and hull damage are not fixed for free. By using an armor tank and an armor repairer, I can repair myself with just some time.

The new player owned citadels can also repair all ship damage for free without even docking up if the player who owns the citadel sets the citadel to do that. You just have to get close enough to a player owned citadel that allows "public tethering" and the citadel will shoot repair beams at your ship. Citadels are very new, there aren't many of them in use yet, but over time there will be more of them.

Quote:

I ran the whole Business Agent line. Well I got some isk. The last 10th mission was the most disapointing. Spent four hours of game time and about 2 mil isk (from my mining). Yes, the money spending was my mistake - bought the wrong ore for reprocessing the first time (hey, I am a total noob after all). And after all that I got a 600k isk industrial ship I have no idea what to do with. I guess I could sell it at a big loss.

Again, thank you Tau for sharing! It really helps.


Here's a tip you probably aren't aware of. There are a total of twelve starter systems in the game, three each for Amarr, Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar. You can redo all of the career missions in every starter system and get all of the career mission payouts and free ships eleven more times. You also get a standings boost for whichever faction that system is in. Even though your character is Minmatar, there is nothing stopping you from going to the starter systems in the other three main factions and doing the career missions in those systems. Don't do them all right away. Over time you may find that your standings with one or more of the other main factions are getting worse. You can use the career missions in the other starter systems to help rebuild your standings with the other main NPC factions. As Minmatar, if you do enough security missions, you will lose standings with Amarr. Being able to fly over to an Amarr starter system and improve your standings can be useful, and you can do this up to three times with each of the other main factions (and two more times in the other two Minmatar starter systems).
Blood Retributor
#39 - 2016-05-23 15:36:50 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
1. This is a PVP game, blowing up ships is THE FUN in this game.

I am totally in sync with this. It is a game after all. My only problem was with the affirmation of blowing ships in hi-sec. I am in hi-sec and I am a noob who still does not know how to detect potential attackers. That was the only reason I posted. Now from all your replies I gather that the threat was overly exaggerated and although the risk still exists it is minor. That gives me the hope that I will have enough time to figure out the game mechanics to spot the gankers and hopefully outrun them Lol In other words I was worried that I will not be able to get the step 0 you are mentioning.

Quote:
2. Most of us started as solo players, but making friends is easy. Your goal shouldn't be to stay solo.

That is my objective (not to stay solo). For now, I just want to avoid the scams, that would lead to unnecessary frustration with the game.

I will gladly join a group of like-minded players. Just need time to figure out how to find (identify) those.

One step at a time ...

Blue Macaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2016-05-23 15:39:38 UTC
Blowing up miners is no more than griefing from my point of view - and if you were to join a nullsec corp I'm sure people would be willing to fund your first pve ships, maybe even battleships, after all a few hundred mills is pocket change when you live in 0.0...