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T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
#2221 - 2016-05-18 16:04:55 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
T-Jay Charante wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
T-Jay Charante wrote:
I'm sure you jumped into a nice clone, with +5 implants before you left to maximize you skill point gain. Meanwhile, people who play on a daily basis don't have this luxury.
You feel punished as you may miss out on 3 or 4 hours training when you don't play the game. How do you feel about the people who lose 3-4 hours training who do play the game every day over ones that log in once or twice a week, do you think this is fair and logical?


If you are playing the game every day, and not participating in this daily opportunity, that's not my fault. The very least you can do is blow up an NPC every day, even if you're wandering around looking for gudfites.


I am talking about the current state, where I don't have the opportunity to make up those lost SP's compared to someone afk skill training with +5's.


Yes, you do. You make the choice not to fly with +5 implants. That's a choice you make - in game - on days when you can play.

There are two schools of thought on "what you get for subscribing to Eve." One is that you simply pay for access to the server. This makes some sense, but almost none of us can maximize our access to the Eve server every month. I subscribe to the other school of thought, which is that you pay for access to the skill training. CCP made this abundantly clear when they removed ghost training. I didn't keep paying CCP the subscription fee for nine years so I could play Eve all day every day - I paid them to keep my characters improving. I did that even for time periods when I could not conceivably access Eve. Since CCP clearly does not like that model, I've made my own choices. This May, I unsubscribed another account and switched over to PLEX for the rest. I'm slowly bleeding down in game resources while I see which way this world is headed. Skill injectors and other daily grinding don't give me much incentive to continue, but we'll see how it turns out.


I guess skill points are like kids toys. Some kids don't want to share their toys, throws a fit if anyone comes near to them and can't see others have fun with them, even if they are not even around to use them. Others kids just don't care who plays with their toys, as long as someone is getting enjoyment out of them.

It's just a game.
Dantelion Shinoni
Empirical Inventions
#2222 - 2016-05-18 16:43:05 UTC
T-Jay Charante wrote:

It's just a game.


Are you complaining about people not being nice in EVE?...

You bet your sweet hoonani that I don't want you to get more stuffs while I don't if I can help it. SP included.

Those other kids need to reconsider their life choices.
Blue Macaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2223 - 2016-05-18 17:23:26 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Blue Macaw wrote:
So you people don't want free SP ... What's wrong with you --"... If i were to gift you something would you attempt to kick my ass for it? ô_o.

The gap between newbies and vets like us is ever increasing, and newbies are the ones that are more likely to do PVE because they don't have dozens of billions to invest in industry every week. I love newbies and I am aware of the ammount of skills required to play eve properly, so ANYTHING that helps is welcome.. No matter what bittervets think.

This feature has nothing to do with newbees.


It does. Anyone can take advantage of it - sure - but the ones who are going to benefit the most from this are newbies.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#2224 - 2016-05-18 18:04:30 UTC
Blue Macaw wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Blue Macaw wrote:
So you people don't want free SP ... What's wrong with you --"... If i were to gift you something would you attempt to kick my ass for it? ô_o.

The gap between newbies and vets like us is ever increasing, and newbies are the ones that are more likely to do PVE because they don't have dozens of billions to invest in industry every week. I love newbies and I am aware of the ammount of skills required to play eve properly, so ANYTHING that helps is welcome.. No matter what bittervets think.

This feature has nothing to do with newbees.


It does. Anyone can take advantage of it - sure - but the ones who are going to benefit the most from this are newbies.


I would actually be somewhat okay with this if it only benefitted new characters and was used as an incentive to get them more involved in the Eve universe. In other words, if it was tied to the NPE.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2225 - 2016-05-18 20:24:26 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Blue Macaw wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Blue Macaw wrote:
So you people don't want free SP ... What's wrong with you --"... If i were to gift you something would you attempt to kick my ass for it? ô_o.

The gap between newbies and vets like us is ever increasing, and newbies are the ones that are more likely to do PVE because they don't have dozens of billions to invest in industry every week. I love newbies and I am aware of the ammount of skills required to play eve properly, so ANYTHING that helps is welcome.. No matter what bittervets think.

This feature has nothing to do with newbees.


It does. Anyone can take advantage of it - sure - but the ones who are going to benefit the most from this are newbies.


I would actually be somewhat okay with this if it only benefitted new characters and was used as an incentive to get them more involved in the Eve universe. In other words, if it was tied to the NPE.


Vets would grind alts to sell SP gained that way. Some would even go as far as feeling forced to do so.
Circumstantial Evidence
#2226 - 2016-05-18 21:36:24 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Eve needs new and interesting things for people to do, [...] This shallow stupid gameplay won't have the same effect. And neither will citadels, because they offer nothing to the individual pilot.
I agree with many of your points, just want to take issue with the Citadel comment: they have been a good buff to industry with so many new modules needing to be built and hauled around; nothing was converted from "old pos." And if an individual pilot was using a POS in K-Space before, asset safety is better than losing contents of the corp/ship hanger.
Shakira Akira
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2227 - 2016-05-19 01:18:59 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Eve needs new and interesting things for people to do, [...] This shallow stupid gameplay won't have the same effect. And neither will citadels, because they offer nothing to the individual pilot.
I agree with many of your points, just want to take issue with the Citadel comment: they have been a good buff to industry with so many new modules needing to be built and hauled around; nothing was converted from "old pos." And if an individual pilot was using a POS in K-Space before, asset safety is better than losing contents of the corp/ship hanger.


2 things about this. 1. By making POS useless, people's investments into the POS modules and blueprints etc have essentially been wiped out. 2. Losing your assets was an incentive to ensure you defended your POS, with half your **** magically appearing in a station from Kspace, there's no risk left. Heck, if you're lazy you could just destroy your own citadel instead of wasting your time moving your own BS etc out.

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2228 - 2016-05-19 09:23:35 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Eve needs new and interesting things for people to do, [...] This shallow stupid gameplay won't have the same effect. And neither will citadels, because they offer nothing to the individual pilot.
I agree with many of your points, just want to take issue with the Citadel comment: they have been a good buff to industry with so many new modules needing to be built and hauled around; nothing was converted from "old pos." And if an individual pilot was using a POS in K-Space before, asset safety is better than losing contents of the corp/ship hanger.

No it isn't - Losing a citadel when all you did previously was pull your pos down, can't be made "ok" with asset safety. Your still losing a minimum 3 billion isk asset.....

No Citadel is anything like a pos - You could put together a well defended large pos for well under 1 bil. You can't build a citadel for under 2.5, so already your out of pocket 1.5 bil and that's before you look at fitting out your new Citadel (if it survives its first invul period where it has no fittings at all).

Even if it survives to be fit out, a medium citadel is far easier to kill than any large defended pos. The only real difference (for the individual) between the two, in highsec at least, you could just pull your pos down during a wardec where as your Citadel is going to die. The N+1 factor built into everything Eve means, unless you have the most on grid - You lose.


Industry guys and gals may well be profiteering from Citadels but they are the only ones reaping any benefit from them thus far. Will this change - Not likely; they just cost too much to risk using them as intended.

Bit of a shame the increased taxes and broker fees add no benefit except for CCP and drive prices up so much.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#2229 - 2016-05-19 12:35:19 UTC
Citadels are a game changer in WH man.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#2230 - 2016-05-19 13:21:47 UTC
Did they change the title of this thread? Roll

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#2231 - 2016-05-19 13:23:57 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Did they change the title of this thread? Roll


It did look odd to me as well and then I checked the first post and if you mouseover the "Edited by: CCP Falcon" part you can see that it was done today

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#2232 - 2016-05-19 14:10:54 UTC
well it hits tq in 5 days, nice job ccp

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Fermin Mascagranzas
Contubernium
Fraternity.
#2233 - 2016-05-19 14:24:04 UTC
Well, it was kinda of inevitable. I just joined this game one year ago and its from 2003, it couldn´t resist unfucked too much more time Sad

I just regret not having started here some more years ago.
GameWimp Umangiar
The Wetness
#2234 - 2016-05-19 14:38:23 UTC
I like this :)

10k sp is not alot.

Even if this is a daily task you can do, no one is forcing you to take part every single day. I'm not willing to log on to every character I have to pop an NPC everyday :)

And I like that this is for killing NPC's and not for killing a player. If it would have been for a player kill it would wreck havoc on new players in highsec.
LTH Roths
Mellivora Nulla Irrumabo
#2235 - 2016-05-19 14:50:48 UTC
Good job CCP, nice to see new features and updates added, roll on 5 days time. :-)
Matt Faithbringer
YOLO so no taxes please
#2236 - 2016-05-19 14:59:53 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
... every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day ...


Did you consider ditching the 22-hours thing and just use downtime as separator? The maximum number of skillpoints would still be the same (well, technically lower), but it would be way easier to track (for me). I would have to remember "did I kill the rat today" instead of "at what exact time did I kill the ****** again?"..
Binadas
Overload This
#2237 - 2016-05-19 15:00:32 UTC
OK so a short but highly relevant quesiton:

Why isn't the first PVP kill also being incentivised in the same way? Think about it.


PVP content is not inferior to PVE content so should not be less incentivised.

A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm. The login you generate from this incentive will create more overall content within the game than say, someone who logs into their nullsec home, undocks in a hurricane, warps to belt and kills 1 frigate rat, before docking back up and logging off.

PVP can tend to get you playing eve unexpectedly, if something cool and emergent happens. The arbitrary task of killing one rat does not necessarily have anything in it that would keep you logged in longer than your first rat.

Incentivising the first PVP kill of the day equally to the first PVE kill actually encourages people to participate in the kind of activity that sells Eve Online. Killing a belt rat does not sell eve online and bring new players. The potential for large scale, complex and emergent PVP with real consequences is usually what new people talk about when asked why they came to Eve.

With only the PVE kill incentisised, you send a message that you don't value the content that us PVP focused players bring to the game as much as you value someone undocking and killing a rat, possibly without even interacting with another player.

You also force us to basically go out of our way daily to complete a boring, arbitrary and inconsequential task in order to receive the same incentives as say, a hisec mission runner. To put this in perspective, 10kSp/day is a significant boost, with many characters only getting about 50k SP/day with their normal training. While a mission runner or nullsec ratter will receive this reward almost by default every day, without otherwise altering their schedule, as a wormhole resident who makes their isk through non-pve means, I will have to buy some t1 ship especially for this, and find a rat to kill every single day.

Can't I unlock my 10k SP by logging my trading toon on and updating a few orders? I don't see how this type of login or playstyle is any less legitimate than logging in to kill a single rat.

Isn't eve supposed to be a sandbox?
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#2238 - 2016-05-19 15:03:34 UTC
Binadas wrote:
OK so a short but highly relevant quesiton:

Why isn't the first PVP kill also being incentivised in the same way? Think about it.


PVP content is not inferior to PVE content so should not be less incentivised.

A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm. The login you generate from this incentive will create more overall content within the game than say, someone who logs into their nullsec home, undocks in a hurricane, warps to belt and kills 1 frigate rat, before docking back up and logging off.

PVP can tend to get you playing eve unexpectedly, if something cool and emergent happens. The arbitrary task of killing one rat does not necessarily have anything in it that would keep you logged in longer than your first rat.

Incentivising the first PVP kill of the day equally to the first PVE kill actually encourages people to participate in the kind of activity that sells Eve Online. Killing a belt rat does not sell eve online and bring new players. The potential for large scale, complex and emergent PVP with real consequences is usually what new people talk about when asked why they came to Eve.

With only the PVE kill incentisised, you send a message that you don't value the content that us PVP focused players bring to the game as much as you value someone undocking and killing a rat, possibly without even interacting with another player.

You also force us to basically go out of our way daily to complete a boring, arbitrary and inconsequential task in order to receive the same incentives as say, a hisec mission runner. To put this in perspective, 10kSp/day is a significant boost, with many characters only getting about 50k SP/day with their normal training. While a mission runner or nullsec ratter will receive this reward almost by default every day, without otherwise altering their schedule, as a wormhole resident who makes their isk through non-pve means, I will have to buy some t1 ship especially for this, and find a rat to kill every single day.

Can't I unlock my 10k SP by logging my trading toon on and updating a few orders? I don't see how this type of login or playstyle is any less legitimate than logging in to kill a single rat.

Isn't eve supposed to be a sandbox?


because they couldnt be bothered thinking about pvp, they just wanted to get the numbers up fast

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
NovaCat13
Seymourus and Co.
#2239 - 2016-05-19 15:05:30 UTC
Binadas wrote:
Isn't eve supposed to be a sandbox?


We were wrong.

Just say NO to Dailies
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2240 - 2016-05-19 15:06:24 UTC
Binadas wrote:
OK so a short but highly relevant quesiton:

Why isn't the first PVP kill also being incentivised in the same way?


Because killing your own alt or your friend in a rookie ship is all that much more engaging?