These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Recurring Opportunities coming soon

First post
Author
Matt Faithbringer
YOLO so no taxes please
#2241 - 2016-05-19 15:06:26 UTC
Binadas wrote:
...

A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm

...


Yeah because killing alt in ibis is much harder than finding a rat. Oh wait...
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#2242 - 2016-05-19 15:08:14 UTC
Matt Faithbringer wrote:
Binadas wrote:
...

A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm

...


Yeah because killing alt in ibis is much harder than finding a rat. Oh wait...


It's harder if you are an actual newbie while being just as stupidly easy for anyone established in the game.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2243 - 2016-05-19 15:08:45 UTC
Matt Faithbringer wrote:
Binadas wrote:
...

A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm

...


Yeah because killing alt in ibis is much harder than finding a rat. Oh wait...


atleast ccp are getting 2 logins for the price of 1 huh Lol

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

LTH Roths
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2244 - 2016-05-19 15:10:32 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Matt Faithbringer wrote:
Binadas wrote:
...

A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm

...


Yeah because killing alt in ibis is much harder than finding a rat. Oh wait...


atleast ccp are getting 2 logins for the price of 1 huh Lol


Not really, a couple of friends could agree to kill each others ibis every day without creating any new accounts. Just sayin lol
Dental Assistant
Fun is Overrated
#2245 - 2016-05-19 15:10:59 UTC
Stop ruining this game, please.
Matt Faithbringer
YOLO so no taxes please
#2246 - 2016-05-19 15:15:39 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions.

Why Dailies?
So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.

Why Skillpoints?
There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it.

Why so lazy?
Lots of feedback about the feature having such a minimalist implementation. First, let me clear up some confusion by saying that this feature has no relationship with the 'Tribute' system that was described last year at EVE Vegas. That feature has actually gone down a path more focused on goal setting and long term engagement than daily activity and so the daily part was broken off and given to our team separately. With that in mind, we are trying to find the right mix of activity and accessibility. We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. We think getting to a belt or gate for an NPC is about the right mix and that's why we've landed with this. That said, we've also deliberately tried to keep it simple so that we can deploy fast and adjust based on how it gets used. We are absolutely open to expanding the list of activities in the future and imagined that as one of the most likely first iterations. Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting.

New players
Seeing a lot of talk about this feature in the context of new players and I can just say that this is not a new player targeted feature. We hope it's good for new players as well but for the feature to be successful it needs to be relevant to everyone.

Wow CCP
And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game.

Hope some of this helps. We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior.


Do mission NPCs count towards this daily thingy?
Binadas
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#2247 - 2016-05-19 15:18:41 UTC
LTH Roths wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Matt Faithbringer wrote:
Binadas wrote:
...

A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm

...


Yeah because killing alt in ibis is much harder than finding a rat. Oh wait...


atleast ccp are getting 2 logins for the price of 1 huh Lol


Not really, a couple of friends could agree to kill each others ibis every day without creating any new accounts. Just sayin lol


But if I can weigh in again, all of you guys who are saying "yeah but how easy is it to kill a friend in an ibis" are missing the point a little.
Even if people did just farm eachother in Ibis (which btw would be easy to prevent á la killmark ship restrictions, or value restrictions etc), the strong argument is that this still creates a more meaningful login and interaction (hey two people actually communicated and arranged to farm eachother!), than logging in solo, talking to no one, and killing one rat.

So even if it seems like it could be gamed, in reality we see that even if it is gamed, it is still better than killing one rat, right?
Tetsel
House Amamake
#2248 - 2016-05-19 15:19:15 UTC
The -10 community thank you for this marvellous useless lazy sandbox feature.

Loyal servent to Mother Amamake. @EVE_Tetsel

Another Bittervet Please Ignore

LTH Roths
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2249 - 2016-05-19 15:21:05 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions.


Wow CCP
And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game.

Hope some of this helps. We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior.


But, but, CCP Rise, battlegrounds and dragon killing sound like great new features.Blink
Ashterothi
Aideron Robotics
#2250 - 2016-05-19 15:27:20 UTC
It is disappointing to see my analysis go without so much as a comment from CCP.

http://crossingzebras.com/dailies-in-eve-a-design-challenge/

Once again, it isn't the reward, it is the system itself that is screwed. Release it like this and you seriously limit your ability to do great things with the feature in the future.
Phteven Hackett
NOMADS.
#2251 - 2016-05-19 15:35:45 UTC
Dear CCP Rise.

Is logging into an account, shooting a rat, logging out good gameplay? Or would you rather have the person with 20 training accounts spend that time actually creating content and have fun?

Cause it sounds like you don't want us to play the game at all.
It sounds like you want us to burn out doing silly chores to uptain our perfect training, burn out and go play some game that doesn't seem like such a chore..

From my perspective, you missed the spot.
I would be a lot more happy with a simple log-in bonus and while stats show this to not be successfull, these stats are also not from games where people run 20, 30, 40 accounts, and it looks like you forgot to account for that.
Remember, your stats are useless if you aren't able to use them properly.

Please reconsider making EVE a chore, cause tbh.. I can find so many other games I would rather spend my time on, than looking at a Highsec belt and a login screen.

Thanks.
Mr Mac
Dark Goliath
#2252 - 2016-05-19 15:40:59 UTC
Matt Faithbringer wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions.

Why Dailies?
So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.

Why Skillpoints?
There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it.

Why so lazy?
Lots of feedback about the feature having such a minimalist implementation. First, let me clear up some confusion by saying that this feature has no relationship with the 'Tribute' system that was described last year at EVE Vegas. That feature has actually gone down a path more focused on goal setting and long term engagement than daily activity and so the daily part was broken off and given to our team separately. With that in mind, we are trying to find the right mix of activity and accessibility. We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. We think getting to a belt or gate for an NPC is about the right mix and that's why we've landed with this. That said, we've also deliberately tried to keep it simple so that we can deploy fast and adjust based on how it gets used. We are absolutely open to expanding the list of activities in the future and imagined that as one of the most likely first iterations. Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting.

New players
Seeing a lot of talk about this feature in the context of new players and I can just say that this is not a new player targeted feature. We hope it's good for new players as well but for the feature to be successful it needs to be relevant to everyone.

Wow CCP
And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game.

Hope some of this helps. We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior.


Do mission NPCs count towards this daily thingy?

Yes
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#2253 - 2016-05-19 16:16:18 UTC
Binadas wrote:
LTH Roths wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Matt Faithbringer wrote:
Binadas wrote:
...

A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm

...


Yeah because killing alt in ibis is much harder than finding a rat. Oh wait...


atleast ccp are getting 2 logins for the price of 1 huh Lol


Not really, a couple of friends could agree to kill each others ibis every day without creating any new accounts. Just sayin lol


But if I can weigh in again, all of you guys who are saying "yeah but how easy is it to kill a friend in an ibis" are missing the point a little.
Even if people did just farm eachother in Ibis (which btw would be easy to prevent á la killmark ship restrictions, or value restrictions etc), the strong argument is that this still creates a more meaningful login and interaction (hey two people actually communicated and arranged to farm eachother!), than logging in solo, talking to no one, and killing one rat.

So even if it seems like it could be gamed, in reality we see that even if it is gamed, it is still better than killing one rat, right?


Exactly.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#2254 - 2016-05-19 16:23:11 UTC
Phteven Hackett wrote:
Dear CCP Rise.

Is logging into an account, shooting a rat, logging out good gameplay? Or would you rather have the person with 20 training accounts spend that time actually creating content and have fun?

Cause it sounds like you don't want us to play the game at all.
It sounds like you want us to burn out doing silly chores to uptain our perfect training, burn out and go play some game that doesn't seem like such a chore..

From my perspective, you missed the spot.
I would be a lot more happy with a simple log-in bonus and while stats show this to not be successfull, these stats are also not from games where people run 20, 30, 40 accounts, and it looks like you forgot to account for that.
Remember, your stats are useless if you aren't able to use them properly.

Please reconsider making EVE a chore, cause tbh.. I can find so many other games I would rather spend my time on, than looking at a Highsec belt and a login screen.

Thanks.


From my perspective, you are planning on willingly do something optional you dislike just because you personally can't pass up the reward and would rather burn out doing it than just accepting that you enjoy something else more in the game than logging in to kill a rat and just forgetting about it because sandbox games should be played by doing what you like and not what is the most optimal.

But hey, it's your own personal time so you can do whatever you want with it even if it mean turning a game into a job.
Aelavaine
Aelavaine's Corporation
#2255 - 2016-05-19 16:32:58 UTC
Coolie! I like how CCP cares nothing about the opinion of its customers. Like a ganker cares about its victim.

If you don't like it, just unsub for a few months. That's the only language CCP understands. Everything else is a waste of your time.

You want more than spinning ships? Support Avatar Gameplay!

Circumstantial Evidence
#2256 - 2016-05-19 16:35:14 UTC
Binadas wrote:"Why isn't the first PVP kill also being incentivised in the same way?"
Mild sarcasm here: Don't panic: shooting any NPC is merely the FIRST 'recurring opportunity.'

The icon bar I have seen on the test server has plenty of room for expansion. The re-branding from 'daily' to 'recurring' says that this or future 'opportunities' may occur over different time scales.

The protesters have had their say; I think the statistical measure of "increased/declined/no change" in login activity after May 24 tied to this feature is all CCP cares about. It won't change my personal login pattern, but some say they may feel compelled to for the reward, thus perhaps "feature working," in those cases. (Good CZ article, Ashterothi.)

From the description on the EVE Updates site: "With the discovery of new consciousness manipulation techniques by a group of New Eden’s most brilliant neuropsychologists..."

Way to go CCP, no sugar-coating on this bitter pill, you're telling it like it is ;)
Jhousetlin Zamayid
#2257 - 2016-05-19 16:42:42 UTC
Dorijan wrote:
Let's add the worst feature of any MMO - daily chores - to EVE Online.

What could possibly go wrong?


EVE already has tons of chores.

Even if all you do is PvP, you still have chores just to survive - logistics, making a little ISK, etc.
Galdrielle Childari
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2258 - 2016-05-19 16:48:37 UTC
Idea

SP by day? Maybe no. LP by day? Why not. But, not 10K LP^^.

No?
Zathra Narazi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2259 - 2016-05-19 17:33:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Zathra Narazi
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi

I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel.

As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like.

You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available.

That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later!

Feedback appreciate as always,
CCP Rise for Team Size Matters

Responding to feedback

Cool, thanks.

Jhousetlin Zamayid wrote:
Dorijan wrote:
Let's add the worst feature of any MMO - daily chores - to EVE Online.

What could possibly go wrong?


EVE already has tons of chores.

Even if all you do is PvP, you still have chores just to survive - logistics, making a little ISK, etc.

Nobody is forcing you to do it if you don't want to. It's not like your SP rate will decrease compared to now if you don't do it. And warping to the nearest belt or gate and killing 1 rat takes seconds.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#2260 - 2016-05-19 17:33:57 UTC
Matt Faithbringer wrote:
Binadas wrote:
...

A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm

...


Yeah because killing alt in ibis is much harder than finding a rat. Oh wait...


make it so newb ships, shuttles and pods dont count - there problem solved.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.