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[Citadel] Capital Escalations and Drifter Boss

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Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#181 - 2016-04-28 17:44:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Eh.... stuff was said.

Yaay!!!!
graves1091
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#182 - 2016-04-28 18:53:31 UTC
Despite repeated explanations, the devs who proposed these changes simply haven't played the game in w space or don't understand the time/risk/reward aspect of wormholes. First off, yes the current escalation system is broken, can be solod in dreads or bombers often by only a few people. Often what happens is pve groups close off the static wh preventing anybody from coming in, and insulating their caps from danger. This is the real problem, essentially the reward to risk ratio is very high, and it becomes easy and repetitive to make billions. However, the new system wipes out ANY incentive for anybody to bring caps into a wormhole, probe out and collapse wormholes to protect them, commit several characters and billions of isk, for what reward?

Let's just break this down for a second here. It takes approximately 10 billion minimum in caps and mods for a full escalation fleet. Let's say there are 5 sites in the system, about average for a c5.

You run 5 sites in say, 3 hours. In 3 hours, that night, you will make 2 billion total just running the escalation waves and killing the drifters. You split the 2 billion among 3 people, netting you 650m. Okay, thats not too bad. Let's assume, since the blog is kind of ambiguous, that you can run the escalations the next day. So you still have 5 sites, but GUESS WHAT? That really cool drifter thing they added, DOESNT SPAWN the next day. So basically you can run the scalations again, all 5 sites, for a whopping 500m. whooooooo.

I don't trust CCP's mechanic of adding new sites to wh space, I just have a hunch feeling that the system isnt perfect and at most i will end up with about 6 sites to run at a time. It just simply isn't worth the time, investment, or commitment it takes to move characters into a wormhole with billions in ships just tied up capital barely returning investment now. I could triple box incursions and have a steady income stream and make the same isk in 3 hours without committing my characters to unknown space.
Valorex1
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#183 - 2016-04-29 00:05:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Valorex1
Just killed our first one. It took quite awhile to kill it prob 5-10 mins. We didn't use any capitals just sub caps. We had to use 4x guardians to keep the subcaps hardners on. Insta capped out every cycle. Not a lot of dps out but a lot of hp. No dd was ever fired by the drifter. 300m in blue loot dropped. I had a 15 man fleet on grid t3's damnation and devoter. It accelerated to 1kms before we landed scrams and focus point. It still died very slowly with 15 1k dps proteus on grid.
Jessie McPewpew
U2EZ
#184 - 2016-04-29 01:58:43 UTC
Valorex1 wrote:
Just killed our first one. It took quite awhile to kill it prob 5-10 mins. We didn't use any capitals just sub caps. We had to use 4x guardians to keep the subcaps hardners on. Insta capped out every cycle. Not a lot of dps out but a lot of hp. No dd was ever fired by the drifter. 300m in blue loot dropped. I had a 15 man fleet on grid t3's damnation and devoter. It accelerated to 1kms before we landed scrams and focus point. It still died very slowly with 15 1k dps proteus on grid.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. GOOD JOB CCP.
graves1091
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#185 - 2016-04-29 07:03:34 UTC
Yeah wormholes are ******, as per CCP plan
Valyn Horn
Boys in Plaid
#186 - 2016-04-30 02:02:31 UTC
We played around with the sites a bit. Two garrisons in our C5. Neither site spawned the escalation wave for our Minokawa. So we got the Dread wave, and the Carrier wave, but no Force Aux wave.

Also, the drifter structure disappeared after 10-15 min or so, while we had eyes on it. I don't know if that's by design or not, but didn't see any mention of a timer on that.

I also don't like how the escalation waves accomplish the full application of damage by bypassing game mechanics. We shot them for full damage with our phoenix, which has an explosion velocity of ~80 m/s and the escalation ships travel around ~300 m/s. So the understood missile damage calculation seems to be bypassed for these ships.

If that's the case, I kinda think that's dumb. If the ships are designed to be fully applied damage, make them behave as they OUGHT to behave. Make them slow, so they obey the known math of the game. Don't just add hidden multipliers and workarounds on random ships, I feel like thats the wrong way to go.
Rex Tarezi
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#187 - 2016-04-30 05:45:43 UTC
Status update on the viability of d-scan and combat scan? I just had one warp off and cannot seem to find him in system.
Merena Enderas
Deep Space Mining Industry
#188 - 2016-04-30 09:05:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Merena Enderas
Solo Dread is still possible but i think only with naglfar because of the 2 weapons.


o/

Wormhole Stuff on Youtube

Ingame Channel: All Hail Bob
Braxus Deninard
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#189 - 2016-04-30 09:07:43 UTC
graves1091 wrote:
Despite repeated explanations, the devs who proposed these changes simply haven't played the game in w space or don't understand the time/risk/reward aspect of wormholes. First off, yes the current escalation system is broken, can be solod in dreads or bombers often by only a few people. Often what happens is pve groups close off the static wh preventing anybody from coming in, and insulating their caps from danger. This is the real problem, essentially the reward to risk ratio is very high, and it becomes easy and repetitive to make billions. However, the new system wipes out ANY incentive for anybody to bring caps into a wormhole, probe out and collapse wormholes to protect them, commit several characters and billions of isk, for what reward?

Let's just break this down for a second here. It takes approximately 10 billion minimum in caps and mods for a full escalation fleet. Let's say there are 5 sites in the system, about average for a c5.

You run 5 sites in say, 3 hours. In 3 hours, that night, you will make 2 billion total just running the escalation waves and killing the drifters. You split the 2 billion among 3 people, netting you 650m. Okay, thats not too bad. Let's assume, since the blog is kind of ambiguous, that you can run the escalations the next day. So you still have 5 sites, but GUESS WHAT? That really cool drifter thing they added, DOESNT SPAWN the next day. So basically you can run the scalations again, all 5 sites, for a whopping 500m. whooooooo.

I don't trust CCP's mechanic of adding new sites to wh space, I just have a hunch feeling that the system isnt perfect and at most i will end up with about 6 sites to run at a time. It just simply isn't worth the time, investment, or commitment it takes to move characters into a wormhole with billions in ships just tied up capital barely returning investment now. I could triple box incursions and have a steady income stream and make the same isk in 3 hours without committing my characters to unknown space.


are you mad because you died to easily killable sleepers with horribly fit caps in povar's personal farm lmao, i logged on and saw your corpses it was pretty great, in fact your mtu is still up, should come scoop your loot

ps these are still easily farmable by a solo dread with some out of the box thinking
Maria Madeveda
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#190 - 2016-04-30 14:51:23 UTC
Valyn Horn wrote:
We played around with the sites a bit. Two garrisons in our C5. Neither site spawned the escalation wave for our Minokawa. So we got the Dread wave, and the Carrier wave, but no Force Aux wave.

Also, the drifter structure disappeared after 10-15 min or so, while we had eyes on it. I don't know if that's by design or not, but didn't see any mention of a timer on that.

I also don't like how the escalation waves accomplish the full application of damage by bypassing game mechanics. We shot them for full damage with our phoenix, which has an explosion velocity of ~80 m/s and the escalation ships travel around ~300 m/s. So the understood missile damage calculation seems to be bypassed for these ships.

If that's the case, I kinda think that's dumb. If the ships are designed to be fully applied damage, make them behave as they OUGHT to behave. Make them slow, so they obey the known math of the game. Don't just add hidden multipliers and workarounds on random ships, I feel like thats the wrong way to go.


Just for your info, the formula for missile damage doesn't include explosion velocity vs target velocity only (see : http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Missile_Damage#Analysis_of_the_Equation) but also the signature and explosion radius, so it is very well possible to apply full damage with a lower exposion velocity than target velocity. You begin to apply less damage if v(target) >= signature * (v(explosion)/explosion radius).
Valyn Horn
Boys in Plaid
#191 - 2016-05-01 00:50:25 UTC
Maria Madeveda wrote:
Valyn Horn wrote:
We played around with the sites a bit. Two garrisons in our C5. Neither site spawned the escalation wave for our Minokawa. So we got the Dread wave, and the Carrier wave, but no Force Aux wave.

Also, the drifter structure disappeared after 10-15 min or so, while we had eyes on it. I don't know if that's by design or not, but didn't see any mention of a timer on that.

I also don't like how the escalation waves accomplish the full application of damage by bypassing game mechanics. We shot them for full damage with our phoenix, which has an explosion velocity of ~80 m/s and the escalation ships travel around ~300 m/s. So the understood missile damage calculation seems to be bypassed for these ships.

If that's the case, I kinda think that's dumb. If the ships are designed to be fully applied damage, make them behave as they OUGHT to behave. Make them slow, so they obey the known math of the game. Don't just add hidden multipliers and workarounds on random ships, I feel like thats the wrong way to go.


Just for your info, the formula for missile damage doesn't include explosion velocity vs target velocity only (see : http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Missile_Damage#Analysis_of_the_Equation) but also the signature and explosion radius, so it is very well possible to apply full damage with a lower exposion velocity than target velocity. You begin to apply less damage if v(target) >= signature * (v(explosion)/explosion radius).



Right you are, I didn't account for the fact that sig radius is still part of the explosion velocity part of the equation, my mistake.
MD74
Intergalactic Republic Of Wadiya
Beanstalk Inc.
#192 - 2016-05-01 17:36:58 UTC
So many sweet tears Lol
Luft Reich
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#193 - 2016-05-02 15:25:01 UTC
Braxus Deninard wrote:
graves1091 wrote:
Despite repeated explanations, the devs who proposed these changes simply haven't played the game in w space or don't understand the time/risk/reward aspect of wormholes. First off, yes the current escalation system is broken, can be solod in dreads or bombers often by only a few people. Often what happens is pve groups close off the static wh preventing anybody from coming in, and insulating their caps from danger. This is the real problem, essentially the reward to risk ratio is very high, and it becomes easy and repetitive to make billions. However, the new system wipes out ANY incentive for anybody to bring caps into a wormhole, probe out and collapse wormholes to protect them, commit several characters and billions of isk, for what reward?

Let's just break this down for a second here. It takes approximately 10 billion minimum in caps and mods for a full escalation fleet. Let's say there are 5 sites in the system, about average for a c5.

You run 5 sites in say, 3 hours. In 3 hours, that night, you will make 2 billion total just running the escalation waves and killing the drifters. You split the 2 billion among 3 people, netting you 650m. Okay, thats not too bad. Let's assume, since the blog is kind of ambiguous, that you can run the escalations the next day. So you still have 5 sites, but GUESS WHAT? That really cool drifter thing they added, DOESNT SPAWN the next day. So basically you can run the scalations again, all 5 sites, for a whopping 500m. whooooooo.

I don't trust CCP's mechanic of adding new sites to wh space, I just have a hunch feeling that the system isnt perfect and at most i will end up with about 6 sites to run at a time. It just simply isn't worth the time, investment, or commitment it takes to move characters into a wormhole with billions in ships just tied up capital barely returning investment now. I could triple box incursions and have a steady income stream and make the same isk in 3 hours without committing my characters to unknown space.


are you mad because you died to easily killable sleepers with horribly fit caps in povar's personal farm lmao, i logged on and saw your corpses it was pretty great, in fact your mtu is still up, should come scoop your loot

ps these are still easily farmable by a solo dread with some out of the box thinking


Spitting fire. These sites are hella easy.

ISD Cyberdyne liked your forum post
Carrion Crow
Head Like a Hole.
#194 - 2016-05-03 02:41:29 UTC
Is this mysterious cloaking box meant to have any lore/storyline meaning?

It seems particularly contrived that a box de-cloaks and a drifter pops out.


I have to say the actual drifter NPC is entertaining as hell.

One warped off and we found it attacking a closing Hic on our static.

I think they make great pets! we might keep a few around for lols.


+1 CCP for the latest new fun wormhole accessories ;)
Valyn Horn
Boys in Plaid
#195 - 2016-05-05 02:22:46 UTC
Carrion Crow wrote:
Is this mysterious cloaking box meant to have any lore/storyline meaning?

It seems particularly contrived that a box de-cloaks and a drifter pops out.


I have to say the actual drifter NPC is entertaining as hell.

One warped off and we found it attacking a closing Hic on our static.

I think they make great pets! we might keep a few around for lols.


+1 CCP for the latest new fun wormhole accessories ;)


Really? I thought they didnt know how to find wormholes.
FeistyOne
Inevitable Outcome
E.C.H.O
#196 - 2016-05-06 17:33:19 UTC
Valyn Horn wrote:
Really? I thought they didnt know how to find wormholes.


Can Confirm, found my first one camping a low sec exit i was using. He waited there around 30 minutes before moving on.
Catelyn Stoneheart
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#197 - 2016-05-07 18:53:36 UTC
Hi CCP-

I stayed positive on the wh escalation changes and we have had great success running these with 3 dreads + 1 archon. They are pretty fun and have payouts that make it worth the risk/effort involved with running them.

Now, the new mechanic means that the sites don't stick around past downtime. That's fine and all, but would you kindly consider making the data/relic sites also spawn the drifter boss? It would sure be nice to be able to run the data/relic sites with the drifter boss as well. They just ain't worth running without him.

Please Please Please????
Luft Reich
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#198 - 2016-05-08 22:12:06 UTC
Catelyn Stoneheart wrote:
Hi CCP-

I stayed positive on the wh escalation changes and we have had great success running these with 3 dreads + 1 archon. They are pretty fun and have payouts that make it worth the risk/effort involved with running them.

Now, the new mechanic means that the sites don't stick around past downtime. That's fine and all, but would you kindly consider making the data/relic sites also spawn the drifter boss? It would sure be nice to be able to run the data/relic sites with the drifter boss as well. They just ain't worth running without him.

Please Please Please????


Yes

ISD Cyberdyne liked your forum post
Jonesith
State War Academy
Caldari State
#199 - 2016-05-10 19:17:14 UTC
Does anyone know off-hand if the drifter will warp to combat anomalies or relic/data sites? The only times we have encountered them has been by pure chance when they are sitting on a connecting hole. Occasionally we follow them to planets but it is unclear whether or not the will go to combat anoms/sigs.
Fairfax Narmolaya
Grupa Operacyjna ZLY CHUJI
Unicorns from Hell
#200 - 2016-05-17 12:33:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Fairfax Narmolaya
Hi there,

After killing 2nd drifter during a farm, 16 drifters landed at hole we came from..
http://prntscr.com/b4vuej

For safety, we didnt continued farm (subcapital fleet).
After about 10 mins, drifters warped off into unknown space.
I did try to combat probe them, but no results.

My question is - I saw them on the overview/grid, but never on dscan. Also couldnt probe them later on.
Is that allright? How we gonna check before start farming if unleashed drifters are in the system and our fleet is safe? :P

And another question - will they disappear afer a while? Cause I cant see any solution to take them down without a loss :P


Regards,
Fairfax Narmolaya