These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

Perimeter Citadel Battle

Author
Ryan Ahashion
Syntonex
#1 - 2016-05-02 02:05:14 UTC
Anyone else show up to watch the battle? Perimeter hit 600 people in local. The armor timer is at like 2300 eve time for anyone who wants to come see round 2.
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#2 - 2016-05-02 02:35:09 UTC
The guardians going suspect accidentally was certainly entertaining for the couple hundred spectators.

Otherwise though it seemed like the attacking composition was easily immune to the citadel itself by a large margin.

Will be very interesting to see going forward, just how refined an attacking doctrine can be made.

It seems that even just two guardians would have been more than enough.
Khad Soban
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2016-05-02 02:47:15 UTC
Yeah I was there flying around those domies bumping them and looting the occasional wreck when all of the sudden my little ship got popped my a smartbombing rokh and then I got podded by said rokh.

Laughed mighty hard at that. Lol

Cool to see how everyone and their mom showed up looking at that citadel. Loved the live commentary by eve-radio too when something would happen.

Hopefully see some fireworks from it soon too. Pirate
Tristan Agion
10.K
#4 - 2016-05-02 02:51:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tristan Agion
Eh? You make it sound like the citadel was in some kind of trouble. Its repair timer ran its course without any interruption, and there was little to no "battle" to be seen. I think I saw a Naglfar blow, or maybe I was hallucinating at the time from sensory deprivation. It was like a few hundred people standing around a patch of paint, asking "Is it dry yet?"

Edit: Well, a reddit thread claims that the citadel's shields went down to a "second wave". Maybe I misunderstood that repair timer after all, and something did happen.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#5 - 2016-05-02 03:09:16 UTC
Shalashaska Adam wrote:
The guardians going suspect accidentally was certainly entertaining for the couple hundred spectators.

Otherwise though it seemed like the attacking composition was easily immune to the citadel itself by a large margin.

Will be very interesting to see going forward, just how refined an attacking doctrine can be made.

It seems that even just two guardians would have been more than enough.

Highsec citadels defences are a joke. It's really only the defending fleet that matters in highsec, not the citadel itself.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#6 - 2016-05-02 03:20:14 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Shalashaska Adam wrote:
The guardians going suspect accidentally was certainly entertaining for the couple hundred spectators.

Otherwise though it seemed like the attacking composition was easily immune to the citadel itself by a large margin.

Will be very interesting to see going forward, just how refined an attacking doctrine can be made.

It seems that even just two guardians would have been more than enough.

Highsec citadels defences are a joke. It's really only the defending fleet that matters in highsec, not the citadel itself.

and thank bob for that
Pearl Necklace Badasaz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2016-05-02 04:07:11 UTC
I didnt see the fight, did the defending station have weapons or did it get taken down too fast for subcap launchers, rigs, and whatnot
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#8 - 2016-05-02 04:18:04 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

and thank bob for that

Yes, thank bob that blob superiority is maintained, and that small defending corps have no chance in owning a citadel, only the mega corps.
No wait.... That's actually utterly terrible. A Citadel is meant to be a space fortress and act as a significant force multiplier allowing the defender to fight outnumbered. The joke result of citadel high sec defences means that it's badly missed it's aim in an entire sector of space.
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#9 - 2016-05-02 04:54:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalashaska Adam
The problem in highsec, is simply that the sort of stats you would need to give a citadel to allow it to survive in the hands of a small indy corp, against the indiscriminate war of the major merc alliances, would be entirely over the top.

To allow it to stand a chance in that scenario, you would in turn make it basically invincible in a fight between equally sized opponents, though I suppose many would argue that the latter scenario basically never happens these days.

Its going to be very interesting in the next few weeks as the tactics around citadel fitting and citadel attacking fleet doctrine are worked on and perfected. The problem is simply that the opposing forces can be enormously different in size and strength, because high sec war has nothing to do with local competitors of similar sizes doing battle with one another.

You can't really balance them for high sec war decs without making them ridiculously powerful in low/null/wh. Starbases had the ability to be dismantled before a war began, this is no longer the case now, so you ether need numbers or diplomacy on your side. An attacking fleet is not created to personally destroy one citadel, it can go round dozens a day.
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#10 - 2016-05-02 04:59:09 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

and thank bob for that

Yes, thank bob that blob superiority is maintained, and that small defending corps have no chance in owning a citadel, only the mega corps.
No wait.... That's actually utterly terrible. A Citadel is meant to be a space fortress and act as a significant force multiplier allowing the defender to fight outnumbered. The joke result of citadel high sec defences means that it's badly missed it's aim in an entire sector of space.


When we see the first Fortizar go down then we will know.

Thanks to whoever anchored this in Perimeter, you certainly have created alot of content for many players!Big smile
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#11 - 2016-05-02 05:04:34 UTC
Pearl Necklace Badasaz wrote:
I didnt see the fight, did the defending station have weapons or did it get taken down too fast for subcap launchers, rigs, and whatnot

They just tanked it.

The defenders didn't put out a fleet of any kind and a medium citadel doesn't have that much firepower. Vendetta lost some stuff initially because their logistics chain went suspect because of reasons however they fixed that problem, came back and reinforced it unopposed by anything except the station.

As it turns out that putting up a citadel if you have no capacity to defend it is not actually a good idea.
Pearl Necklace Badasaz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2016-05-02 05:20:44 UTC
Will be interesting then when we get market citadels going up... they will get attacked nonstop
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#13 - 2016-05-02 06:17:35 UTC
Pretty sure this will end well.

er... not.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#14 - 2016-05-02 06:24:19 UTC
Large citadels will probably be an entirely different affair.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#15 - 2016-05-02 06:56:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Pearl Necklace Badasaz wrote:
Will be interesting then when we get market citadels going up... they will get attacked nonstop


I can't foresee anything going wrong with that. Freighter pilots love flying into warzones for 1% extra profit after taxes. Don't trust those silly historians claiming that market hubs depend on being easily accessible, secure, well stocked, well populated and either be competitive in price or hold a monopoly. It only takes, seriously, 1% less taxes and an affordable 10% recovery fee in the event that the marketplace storing your wares goes boom.

Yeah.Bear
Krevnos
Back Door Burglars
#16 - 2016-05-02 09:00:05 UTC
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

and thank bob for that

Yes, thank bob that blob superiority is maintained, and that small defending corps have no chance in owning a citadel, only the mega corps.
No wait.... That's actually utterly terrible. A Citadel is meant to be a space fortress and act as a significant force multiplier allowing the defender to fight outnumbered. The joke result of citadel high sec defences means that it's badly missed it's aim in an entire sector of space.


When we see the first Fortizar go down then we will know.

Thanks to whoever anchored this in Perimeter, you certainly have created alot of content for many players!Big smile


Defences for the Fortizar and Keepstar are essentially identical to Astrahaus in high sec. We reported it in the feedback thread prior to release, but it seems pushing a half baked feature was priority.
Sequester Risalo
German Corps of Engineers 17
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#17 - 2016-05-02 09:28:56 UTC
Krevnos wrote:
Defences for the Fortizar and Keepstar are essentially identical to Astrahaus in high sec. We reported it in the feedback thread prior to release, but it seems pushing a half baked feature was priority.


I think this is not really a problem of citadels but it has a lot to do with the expectations of the owners that they will just have to set up a giant loot pinata and become space rich. Also it might have to do with this one being one of the first. Everybody who understands a bit about Eve and its players should know that deploying a citadel in perimeter would equal painting "shoot me" in giant letters on its back.

It was clear from the beginning that - other than a POS - a citadel would not be viable for single players or small corps.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#18 - 2016-05-02 09:54:19 UTC
Sequester Risalo wrote:
It was clear from the beginning that - other than a POS - a citadel would not be viable for single players or small corps.
Perhaps owning a citadel, but using a citadel is open to every player.

If you cannot defend your structures, you shouldn't deploy one and just pay to use one which is owned and maintained by someone else exactly like POCOs are today. This design is nothing new and part of putting more of the universe in the hands of the players.

Not every player needs to own a space station. If you don't want to bother with defending one, pay someone else and just use theirs.

But really, I am not sure this battle should be taken as typical. There are some nasty features on citadels that will allow a defensive fleet to get the drop on an attacker (and no defensive fleet showed up). Further, there isn't much of a loot reason to bash one, especially given that the attacking fleet is committed and at risk for at least a minute (does it make sense to risk hundreds of millions in ships for a few hundred million ISK in minerals and salvage?). It will take some time before we see how New Eden adapts to these structures and we see how vulnerable/invulnerable they are. Larges will be significantly tougher, and XLs will be impossible to kill so there is also that to consider.

All this says is that an unsupported or unmanned medium Citadel is not much of a concern for a small fleet which we already knew was the case.


Pearl Necklace Badasaz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2016-05-02 10:11:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Pearl Necklace Badasaz
Ofc the guy was doomed in perimeter... but that is not the point... ccp is pushing us to citadels, cheaper market for now, later probably better industry or refining etc... Now im not saying they will be manditory but they will offer advantages.

So if these advantages are on a structure that blows up if you sneeze at it how does ccp expect medium corps or even alliances to utilize them? Yes, i understand you should have your own fleet able to defend during vulnerable time windows, however the sad fact is the medum and small groups can not bring the numbers that some merc corps can.

I think that taking this into consideration there is some sort of expectation that citadels should offer some sort of force multiplier that forces a larger corp to stop and consider if taking on that citadel is really worth the effort. I am by no means saying it should be so strong it's impossible but it should in no way be a force multipier that is equivilent of a tickle.

Take POS's for example, setting aside the various issues with them, they do at least force a war deccing corp to work at it... if for no other reason then the annoying ecm and shield hardeners. If set up correctly they at least offer decent defenses for the cost of that POS.

Now take the costs of citadels.... I would hope that the defense systems would at least be that of a MUCH cheaper POS, I personally feel the defense systems should be a considerable step up from that of a deathstar, or d*ckstar.

Anyway thats my 2 cents, I wont be donating ant citadels to a corp anytime soon, at least till i know that there is a reasonable chance of it staying alive long enough to serve its function.


That all is assuming HS weaponry etc.... also assuming large citadels are as defenseless. At least as the guy a few posts up said who tested it on the test server
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#20 - 2016-05-02 10:13:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Black Pedro wrote:
Sequester Risalo wrote:
It was clear from the beginning that - other than a POS - a citadel would not be viable for single players or small corps.
Perhaps owning a citadel, but using a citadel is open to every player.

If you cannot defend your structures, you shouldn't deploy one and just pay to use one which is owned and maintained by someone else exactly like POCOs are today. This design is nothing new and part of putting more of the universe in the hands of the players.

Not every player needs to own a space station. If you don't want to bother with defending one, pay someone else and just use theirs.

But really, I am not sure this battle should be taken as typical. There are some nasty features on citadels that will allow a defensive fleet to get the drop on an attacker (and no defensive fleet showed up). Further, there isn't much of a loot reason to bash one, especially given that the attacking fleet is committed and at risk for at least a minute (does it make sense to risk hundreds of millions in ships for a few hundred million ISK in minerals and salvage?). It will take some time before we see how New Eden adapts to these structures and we see how vulnerable/invulnerable they are. Larges will be significantly tougher, and XLs will be impossible to kill so there is also that to consider.

All this says is that an unsupported or unmanned medium Citadel is not much of a concern for a small fleet which we already knew was the case.



They had some ships in space which died, three Navy Domi's.

EDIT: The defences look chickenshit to me which is rather sad, what's wrong in having a challenge in this game, must everything be easy?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

123Next pageLast page