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CONCORD & EWAR => metagame?
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Ben Ishikela
#21 - 2016-04-15 01:30:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ben Ishikela
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Ben Ishikela wrote:
There needs to be a better option......
(until it is found we will need to postpone it then)

There is a better option. Pull the plug and let this bad idea die.

If you have to try and create new mechanics to try and fix the new mechanic you're suggesting, then your suggestion is broken on a fundamental level.

lol. so wrong. Roll
if you search for perfect, you never find something worth.

example: without the new camera, the citadel expansion would be a >>bad idea<<(quote). that doesnt make it bad to think about playerbuild-stations and fighters or sov. I like what CITADEL is promising so far.

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.
Iain Cariaba
#22 - 2016-04-15 01:33:06 UTC
Ben Ishikela wrote:
it has to be coordinated.

Yes, it does. You know what, though? The people that would be abusing this mechanic are already coordinated, where the people that would be the targets typically do not work together. The people that can pull together upwards of 30 pilots to hit a freighter would have no problem at all at this.
Iain Cariaba
#23 - 2016-04-15 01:36:14 UTC
Ben Ishikela wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Ben Ishikela wrote:
There needs to be a better option......
(until it is found we will need to postpone it then)

There is a better option. Pull the plug and let this bad idea die.

If you have to try and create new mechanics to try and fix the new mechanic you're suggesting, then your suggestion is broken on a fundamental level.

lol. so wrong. Roll
if you search for perfect, you never find something worth.

example: without the new camera, the citadel expansion would be a >>bad idea<<(quote). that doesnt make it bad to think about playerbuild-stations and fighters or sov. I like what CITADEL is promising so far.

Citadels work just fine with the old camera on sisi. The two have no relation.
Ben Ishikela
#24 - 2016-04-15 01:49:55 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Ben Ishikela wrote:
it has to be coordinated.

Yes, it does. You know what, though? The people that would be abusing this mechanic are already coordinated, where the people that would be the targets typically do not work together. The people that can pull together upwards of 30 pilots to hit a freighter would have no problem at all at this.


Arent those uncoordinated targets picked as a victim in the first place, because the coordinated ones do avoid this position without anyone noticing? (scouting/webbing/avoiding.........)

Also you dont see defenders because a gank is over so quickly and repeats itself only every 15minutes, right? (forum is full of those who wish to take part in defence things but cannot. Thats an opportunity missed out by ccp to make money for actually producing witnessable interaction)

Let the uncoordinated die! Its eve damn it.

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.
Ben Ishikela
#25 - 2016-04-15 01:52:37 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Ben Ishikela wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Ben Ishikela wrote:
There needs to be a better option......
(until it is found we will need to postpone it then)

There is a better option. Pull the plug and let this bad idea die.

If you have to try and create new mechanics to try and fix the new mechanic you're suggesting, then your suggestion is broken on a fundamental level.

lol. so wrong. Roll
if you search for perfect, you never find something worth.

example: without the new camera, the citadel expansion would be a >>bad idea<<(quote). that doesnt make it bad to think about playerbuild-stations and fighters or sov. I like what CITADEL is promising so far.

Citadels work just fine with the old camera on sisi. The two have no relation.

well, but i hope you get the point even if this quick example wasnt fitting.
what about ewar-bubbles without propulsion modules. what about doomsday sicles without capdrain.

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#26 - 2016-04-15 12:49:22 UTC
NO, another in your never ending string of bad ideas.

There are to many ways this can be abused to the detriment of the game as a whole.
Ben Ishikela
#27 - 2016-04-15 14:02:06 UTC
not true. some of them got implemented.
not exaclty as i expected or suggested, but i kind of inspired.

this thread is too cluttered with offtopic. im going to make a new topic that has an "updated first post" when time comes.
possible updates for the v1.1 might be:
- increase in ecm-burstrange.
- disallow disruptors.
- modification on ecm-bursts.

Can you please list more abuses ... seriously.
(Because if you want to stop me, then you have to come up with an unsolvable problem that you can prove exist. because is want pvp in highsec for those new guys, that lets them keep their shitp. so that we might get more experienced ewar pilots for nullsec in two years.)

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#28 - 2016-04-15 14:10:53 UTC
It would be much more consistent with current game mechanics to have the use of ewar modules result in a suspect flag rather than a criminal flag.

And that would still be a bad idea.
Ben Ishikela
#29 - 2016-04-15 14:22:51 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
It would be much more consistent with current game mechanics to have the use of ewar modules result in a suspect flag rather than a criminal flag.


suspect might work, but then the agressor is shootable.
and then its similar to can-flipping.
we already have that as a playground and its not really competitive.

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#30 - 2016-04-15 14:30:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Ben Ishikela wrote:
Can you please list more abuses ... seriously.
(Because if you want to stop me, then you have to come up with an unsolvable problem that you can prove exist. because is want pvp in highsec for those new guys, that lets them keep their shitp. so that we might get more experienced ewar pilots for nullsec in two years.)

PVP in high sec and null sec is fundamentally different. A person sitting on a gate pointing a freighter with his noob ship and not do much else is as incompetent and unprepared for null sec PVP as a noob who has just subscribed for the game. We do not need more PVP in high sec beyond the, duels, war decs and criminal actions because people are supposed to move out of high sec into low and null sec to forge their own unlimited empires unhampered by restrictions in high sec.
Removing restrictions from high sec just makes more people move back to high sec and leave low and null sec even more deserted, underpopulated and useless as it is now. In particular do we not need PVP in high sec that removes the capital punishment for a criminal crime against other capsuleers. Yes, warp disrupting someone is a capital crime. And the fact that you need to change a ton of mechanics and modules just to make it possible to perma point a freighter or other ship without receiving the rightful punishment of the law shows that you "idea" is flawed to the root.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2016-04-15 14:34:47 UTC
Ben Ishikela wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Ben Ishikela wrote:
it has to be coordinated.

Yes, it does. You know what, though? The people that would be abusing this mechanic are already coordinated, where the people that would be the targets typically do not work together. The people that can pull together upwards of 30 pilots to hit a freighter would have no problem at all at this.


Arent those uncoordinated targets picked as a victim in the first place, because the coordinated ones do avoid this position without anyone noticing? (scouting/webbing/avoiding.........)

Also you dont see defenders because a gank is over so quickly and repeats itself only every 15minutes, right? (forum is full of those who wish to take part in defence things but cannot. Thats an opportunity missed out by ccp to make money for actually producing witnessable interaction)

Let the uncoordinated die! Its eve damn it.


People could work on preventing gank if they put in the effort but they don't because it does not pay so they go do something else instead.
Ben Ishikela
#32 - 2016-04-15 14:48:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Ben Ishikela
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Ben Ishikela wrote:
Can you please list more abuses ... seriously.
(Because if you want to stop me, then you have to come up with an unsolvable problem that you can prove exist. because is want pvp in highsec for those new guys, that lets them keep their shitp. so that we might get more experienced ewar pilots for nullsec in two years.)

PVP in high sec and null sec is fundamentally different. A person sitting on a gate pointing a freighter with his noob ship and not do much else is as incompetent and unprepared for null sec PVP as a noob who has just subscribed for the game. We do not need more PVP in high sec beyond the, duels, war decs and criminal actions because people are supposed to move out of high sec into low and null sec to forge their own unlimited empires unhampered by restrictions in high sec.
Removing restrictions from high sec just makes more people move back to high sec and leave low and null sec even more deserted, underpopulated and useless as it is now. In particular do we not need PVP in high sec that removes the capital punishment for a criminal crime against other capsuleers. Yes, warp disrupting someone is a capital crime. And the fact that you need to change a ton of mechanics and modules just to make it possible to perma point a freighter or other ship without receiving the rightful punishment of the law shows that you "idea" is flawed to the root.

players are not supposed to do anything (refferring to a move). its a sandbox. some (as it currently is) stay in highsec and never come out. incursions and industry is too safe imho.
warpdisrupting a target is already in first-post under issues. but then again, its a good method of securing legal roadblocks. and i believe they benefit player interaction.
i want to avoid enabling someone to perma-point a freighter. i want the freighter pilot to get creative.
i advocating to have more ewar-metagame. therefor i need more players willing to get experienced in it.
quote myself here:
Quote:
more experienced ewar pilots for nullsec in two years.

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#33 - 2016-04-15 15:10:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Ben Ishikela wrote:
players are not supposed to do anything (refferring to a move). its a sandbox. some (as it currently is) stay in highsec and never come out. incursions and industry is too safe imho.
warpdisrupting a target is already in first-post under issues. but then again, its a good method of securing legal roadblocks. and i believe they benefit player interaction.
i want to avoid enabling someone to perma-point a freighter. i want the freighter pilot to get creative.
i advocating to have more ewar-metagame. therefor i need more players willing to get experienced in it.


You can stay wherever you are, but if you want more unrestricted PVP you are supposed to move to low sec and null sec. It's easy as that. That's a driver/motivation for players to venture into more dangerous but also more rewarding areas of space where they can determine for themselves what they want to do.
Massive roadblocks have not benefited player interaction in the past. Read up on m0o. Your "idea" creates the same hotbed for this kind of farce to take place: You can just have loads of pointers on a gate and keep ships pointed/bumped for your gank fleets to arrive. And you can rep your pointers to prevent them from getting killed by the very few people who actually engage a suspect pilot in High sec. You can have legal roadblocks in low sec all you want. Tama is a great example. Hier in Aridia was a really big and popular roadblock when TEST lived in Fountain. The pirates there had a blast with killing ships all day long. But if there are no people living in low/null sec and traveling between systems, there is no point in having these roadblocks there. And your "idea" would be going to remove even more people from the already limited pool of people living and moving out there.
As said, a pilot sitting on a high sec gate pointing things does not gain any preparation or experience in Ewar for actual combat.

And when it comes to freighter pilots being creative. Are you seriously kidding me? How much more creative do we need to get before your screwed up brains stop leaking goo? Freighters are already clay pigeons waiting to be shot at any moment. Their only counter against bumping and ganking (a webber) already has more than 3 counters that gankers can use (insta points, gank the webber, jam the webber, and so on) and they need to turn into group criminals to get a bumper off their freighter to have a slim hope of preventing a loss. Like seriously, how much more creative and sufferable do you really need to get before the stupid in this game stop demanding more?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Ben Ishikela
#34 - 2016-04-25 21:49:40 UTC
i just looked the BurstJammerT2 up. It has 12km. A scorpion lvl5 gets 12km x 2.25=27km. T2 Point is 24km. Therefor it this AOE effect is indeed a counter to the n+1 game in rookieships.--->solved.

With maximum warptime set to 3minutes with citadel expansion, there will be a need to actually apply points to hold something down longer.
Im interested to see how this evolves.

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.
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