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But truthfully since CCP is stumped for adding meaningful content to a HUGE single universe sandbox?


Call it EVE World of Targets


Spin off some smaller PVP only EVE shards. Game of Tanks style. Stuff playable for a day, weekend, week, month or longer but decreasing resources. Limited total lifetime span. No Industry or Research. The only miners are NPC rats running some simple minded miners AI. New fittings by only by salvage. Add minor chance of pod destruction or forced eject wth hull survival. Alliance Victory by attrition.

Maybe even go for No AFK station docking unless commanding defenses of station under fire. Auto eject after 10 minutes with redock blocked for 15 minutes.


Exciting. Real total victory wins to crow about. Something for players to return to again and again without worrying about falling behind buddies when they take breaks for RL or even another game.


Just thinking the big EVE without significant new CONTENT (externally provided goals and mechanics) is going to see deindling numbers of players. The rapid re-visioning of specific game mechanics is too artificial and for many just translates to lack of STABILITY in game mechanics.

Do not shut the big EVE universe down! But prepare to shift resources to players interested in EVE as a short winnable and repeatable version of the main game. High turnover is not bad if players are unafraid of coming back after a break.

Hey Rise!

Thanks for giving this thorough response, and since no good deed goes unpunished, here are my reactions to them:



First of all, I could see this as a potential problem with the unlimited skill queue, and I know I wasn't alone. However, that box is now open. The issue with the system currently proposed is it only addresses this in the thinnest of ways. You are not actually getting quality content out of people logging in, but rather ensuring they tick to box by logging in very briefly.

While on the surface that may seem like it is a good replacement of the 24 hour skill queue incentive to log in, in reality it takes the worst parts of that system, and reinforces them on an extreme level.

With the 24 hour queue, I could set a 30 day skill at the end and feel like I have solved the puzzle, for at least a time. This is important for anyone with a life (actually a high percentage of players), but mostly it helps military personnel. I have heard time and again, both with the queue changes, and now this, about how EVE is a game where military people love the fact that they can go on a field problem, or maneuver, and not feel like they will lose significant progress. While you could argue that this is BONUS SP, in reality it isn't. All this does is make it so that people who can log in daily get 10-20% more SP flat out. This hurts one of the core things that made EVE interesting, and doesn't do anything more than let a "daily login" metric be artificially higher.



The issue here is you set a dangerous precedent. By literally tying 15% of your SP to daily login, you have created a punishment system not a reward system. Furthermore, by putting such a high bounty on this system, you set a baseline for future rewards. What you ultimatly create is a difficult design space. Blizzard had a problem where with so many tiers and raids and levels, it was hard to make rewards "good enough". If this is a feature that will ever be expanded upon, suing this quantity of SP, or using a guaranteed calculable amount, you set yourself up for failure in future design.

(I can only quote 5 times, so this is also from Rise)
Why so lazy?


I feel like this may have been directly calling out the piece I wrote, which is fair. However, my principal concern was the complexity of the reward structure, not just the activity itself. While it is true I wrote it under the assumption that it was replacing the Tribute system, it is still true that some of the goals of that feature was broken off to be solved by this feature. To call them not related at all seems disingenuous.

All that said, my principal concern is any complexity added to the system once released could be seen as a nerf to the already struggling system. When designing rewards, of course you want to start with the minimum required to receive the intended behavior. You can always increase rewards, or increase the number of things able to get rewards, but if the system is designed like a simple push button receive bacon, and then you make it more complex later, people could be even more angry. Again this is a matter of designing yourself in a corner.



I agree, this is for everyone. That is something I like about it. Especially if more tasks are added to it.


I would like to address this to the players not Rise:
Using the argument that it is like other MMOs, or other games, and that is the reason by itself that the proposal is bad, is one of the most annoying argument the EVE playerbase comes up with. The bottom line is game design advances, and these other companies working on their own design problems create solutions that could be useful in other games, including EVE. This isn't about making EVE more WOW and more than Tokens made WOW more like EVE.

There are tons of design lessoned to be learned from MMOs, MOBAs, and even F2P games, and good designers read and learn from each other. Just like any other engineer, or architect. EVE from the onset have plenty of mechanics seen in other games, but with their own, EVE flair.

When discussing new features, please try to look at it as the concerns EVE has, and how we can learn from the mistakes and victories of others to designed elegant solutions to complex problems. This is not as easy as many think.



Thanks again for having this discussion. This is a nearly unrivaled change in the nature of EVE Online, and obviously we as a player base are very trepidatious about it. However, through ongoing discussion, iteration, and your continued commitment to hit your design goals, we may be able to have a system that keeps people logging in, while avoiding the concerns above and elsewhere.

This is one of the most difficult design challenges available. What we are discussing is an unobtrusive and elegant way of controlling thousands of humans behavior. These problems are extremely complex, and many videogames have suffered greatly by incorrect answers to 'simple' design problems.

You are paying them to provide you a service, and to continue to wrestle with how to make that service better. However, this cannot be done in a vacuum, or without missteps, as no one is perfect.

Critiquing the design is useful, insulting the task, or the person, is not.

FW is being looked at for fixes, but that doesn't fix this problem at all.

Please don't.

I come from world of warcraft, daily activities are interesting at the beginning but after some time they give you a sense of duty imposed from above, a job, and if you don't do it you feel regret because of the lost reward.

Please don't put this horrible thing even here..

Honestly while they are bad in wow a better example is swtor where the game was not built with them in mind and faired far worse

Lol that wasn't my intention what I meant by that is I expect a rocket engineer to get their craft into space but I'm not qualified to tell them how. But I can point them to attempts in the past that did not do well and others that did.


One thing they could do is fix industry teams in know the short time they were out they got me to log in several times a day to check in and modify bids all without making me feel like I was being made to unnaturally.

"EVE should be more fun"...

...for whom?

Changing the game is fine in fact it's needed but when doing it you need to make sure the core and feel stay the same

No. I am saying that getting 10,000 free SP just for playing my way, each day, is nice with me. It's literally money for nothing for me. I mean, I even shoot rats in belts while mining. I rarely log off without killing a NPC. And now CCP wants to give me 10,000 free SP each day for it? Bring it on!

Dailies are not about EVE being fun. They're a bribe to bear with how unfun it is. It's like saying "here, have unlimited coffee while you eat our poorly done breakfast".