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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1741 - 2016-04-15 21:38:33 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:


now sad thing is it's do to people accepting that no matter what this is going to be put in followed by more and more. rather than being mad they are defeated with pleas to ccp rather than rants.

(sure there have been some but not as many)


Or the most obvious possibility. People do simply and genuinely not care about this small change to the same extend you do. Perhaps they are not defeated, perhaps they do not care enough about these changes to be mad? Sure, you now come with your slippery slope... what will be next? something else to adapt to and not care about. Will the dailies do what CCP want? probably not. Will it kill the sandbox, imo. not. I predict that approx. four months after implementation the complaints will stop just like it did for the overview changes. You also hear very few people complain about SP injectors these days. You don't like that they force changes on you? Leave the game. I know I would if I did not like what they do.. also without making a big scene of it. At some point in your life, you will learn that videogames are not important enough to get real life agitated about.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Stellar Compass
Secret Passage
#1742 - 2016-04-15 21:46:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Stellar Compass
Let us just take a pause guys, Eve has been around a long time and this isn't the end of the universe.

The question bears a deeper examination, they have clearly realised that they need a greater engagement from the playerbase, they need more people in space, and they need to change in some way to make themselves fit into the current market.

So we have a game where you can play for free, but they are a bit at the hands of the market. (Plex).
They do not want to change that, as the market, is something dynamic, and they want to keep that independence.

So, how do they retain that concept, but make people able to play the game if they are committed, without spending real money, but still encourage them to buy stuff. And also do stuff, have a motivation?

The answer is actually blindingly obvious!
Free to play, pay to train! A plex instead of 30 days gametime, becomes 30 days training as well as all it's other roles.
Subscriptions become training subscriptions.
And the rewards from the initial daily session, also play into this.
Add skill booster drops, like the blood raider haloween event, and you have the full package!

All of a sudden it all makes sense, and even better, It will work!

More in space.
More engagement.
More players
More income!

Obviously it will need fine tuning, a lot of thought, and a lot of balancing, but if we can get over the shock, Both EvE and CCP will be better off for it.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#1743 - 2016-04-16 00:12:37 UTC
sero Hita wrote:
I predict that approx. four months after implementation the complaints will stop just like it did for the overview changes. You also hear very few people complain about SP injectors these days. You don't like that they force changes on you? Leave the game. I know I would if I did not like what they do.. also without making a big scene of it. At some point in your life, you will learn that videogames are not important enough to get real life agitated about.

Yes, if it happens the protests will eventually quiet down because those who don't like it either quit or grudgingly learned to live with another bad change.

As for not complaining about the change because video games aren't worth it, Eve is worth it. This is a unique and awesome game that many of us have spent a lot of time and money on, and it would be a shame if they ruin it and make us quit.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1744 - 2016-04-16 01:27:42 UTC
screw it if all ccp cares about is more ppl online and in space just go free to play

pack the games will dailies sell SP boosts

let us buy 50 75 100 mill sp toons to start with

make insurance 100% and start using npcs to seed the market


all of these will get more ppl out and in space so why not oh they would also be great for the new bro c'mon think of the new bros

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Pryce Caesar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1745 - 2016-04-16 05:57:27 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
screw it if all ccp cares about is more ppl online and in space just go free to play

pack the games will dailies sell SP boosts

let us buy 50 75 100 mill sp toons to start with

make insurance 100% and start using npcs to seed the market


all of these will get more ppl out and in space so why not oh they would also be great for the new bro c'mon think of the new bros


I'm surprised that you are so sensitive (and dripping with sarcasm) when you've only been in EVE for one year longer than I have.

CCP is never going to go that far, since the MMOs that best survive on micro-transactions and free-to-play are those that are built around the concept.

Either way you look at it, these Dailies still have to be done by players in order for it to yield any skill-points, and there'd be no point in making the dailies give ISK instead because the entire game is already built around ISK and the overall economy (outside of the PVP aspect).

So what if they add Dailies to EVE Online? In the long run, the gains from the Dailies, even if you do them every day for the entire year, is minuscule compared to the amount of skill points generated by an active skill queue running for the same amount of time, especially one with 5+ implants (and a skill queue lined with skills requiring specific attributes that you max out said attributes of by re-arranging your skill queue).

It's pretty much icing on the cake of the training queue. It is nothing that will cause the game to implode upon itself.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1746 - 2016-04-16 06:23:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Pryce Caesar wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
screw it if all ccp cares about is more ppl online and in space just go free to play

pack the games will dailies sell SP boosts

let us buy 50 75 100 mill sp toons to start with

make insurance 100% and start using npcs to seed the market


all of these will get more ppl out and in space so why not oh they would also be great for the new bro c'mon think of the new bros


I'm surprised that you are so sensitive (and dripping with sarcasm) when you've only been in EVE for one year longer than I have.

CCP is never going to go that far, since the MMOs that best survive on micro-transactions and free-to-play are those that are built around the concept.

Either way you look at it, these Dailies still have to be done by players in order for it to yield any skill-points, and there'd be no point in making the dailies give ISK instead because the entire game is already built around ISK and the overall economy (outside of the PVP aspect).

So what if they add Dailies to EVE Online? In the long run, the gains from the Dailies, even if you do them every day for the entire year, is minuscule compared to the amount of skill points generated by an active skill queue running for the same amount of time, especially one with 5+ implants (and a skill queue lined with skills requiring specific attributes that you max out said attributes of by re-arranging your skill queue).

It's pretty much icing on the cake of the training queue. It is nothing that will cause the game to implode upon itself.



selling pre sp characters is not that big of a stretch considering ccp has already sold characters that train faster. CCP also shows they are not just willing to stretch core eve concepts but bust through them with a hammer.

and no one is saying these will cause eve to implode we are saying that these are not indications of a healthy direction even when pew made his video in favor of them he admitted that. the difference is he probably has faith that ccp will control themselves. I look to the past and see ccp turns even great ideas bad do to lack of focus this leads me to have very little faith that this will be built on properly and in a way that has the players best interests in mind.

maybe just maybe if ccp didn't treat the csm like a marketing gimick i would have more faith.

or hell if they would give more feed back that didn't sound hollow and scripted. That way we can get a better idea of what they plan with this in the future

even when they were defending this idea they hardly tried to make it look like a better game was the goal

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#1747 - 2016-04-16 06:54:42 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Honestly, folks, the only way to have a chance of having CCP listen is to complain about this publicly. On Facebook, on Twitter, at Fanfest, etc.(...).


As if the "Public" gave a flying sh*t of our freaky video game. Having EVE Online as a pasion is in line with regarding David Hasselhoff as a star. And probably is even freakiest. P
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#1748 - 2016-04-16 08:09:24 UTC
Pryce Caesar wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
screw it if all ccp cares about is more ppl online and in space just go free to play

pack the games will dailies sell SP boosts

let us buy 50 75 100 mill sp toons to start with

make insurance 100% and start using npcs to seed the market


all of these will get more ppl out and in space so why not oh they would also be great for the new bro c'mon think of the new bros


I'm surprised that you are so sensitive (and dripping with sarcasm) when you've only been in EVE for one year longer than I have.

CCP is never going to go that far, since the MMOs that best survive on micro-transactions and free-to-play are those that are built around the concept.

Either way you look at it, these Dailies still have to be done by players in order for it to yield any skill-points, and there'd be no point in making the dailies give ISK instead because the entire game is already built around ISK and the overall economy (outside of the PVP aspect).

So what if they add Dailies to EVE Online? In the long run, the gains from the Dailies, even if you do them every day for the entire year, is minuscule compared to the amount of skill points generated by an active skill queue running for the same amount of time, especially one with 5+ implants (and a skill queue lined with skills requiring specific attributes that you max out said attributes of by re-arranging your skill queue).

It's pretty much icing on the cake of the training queue. It is nothing that will cause the game to implode upon itself.


What MMO is doing well after implementing dailies? WoT and co are more a bit different FPSs with few more people than usual. Kinda like 32 player TF2 servers vs. normal 16. Everything else is losing meaning as instant gratification design means that people achieve everything they want very fast and then get bored and leave. Plus dailies burn out even more of them. F2P games are usually large boost when they come out and then slower or faster decline depending on how good the developers are. If they are lucky they can get a new players but those will most likely not be so desperate for advancement so income from them will be bad (see problems basically every F2P has).

EVE made money and has grown for 10 years because it was different and unique, not because it was copying the worst practices in the industry. I have no idea what is going on at CCP but it is clear that developers there are either run by economists making short term decision or the level of incompetence is amazingly high.

Even with the current war showing that people want huge fights CCP is using it to claim that fozzie sov is great... Yea because everyone showed up for 3v1 fights in interceptors and T3Ds that CCP claims is the optimal PvP and how we all should play it. Small gang PvP is dank or whatever the hell they are thinking.
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1749 - 2016-04-16 09:08:55 UTC  |  Edited by: sero Hita
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:

Yes, if it happens the protests will eventually quiet down because those who don't like it either quit or grudgingly learned to live with another bad change.

Or people found it was not so bad after all, after using the feature instead of only basing it on oppinions. See that is the problem with your perspective, you assume only the negative scenarios.

Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:

As for not complaining about the change because video games aren't worth it, Eve is worth it. This is a unique and awesome game that many of us have spent a lot of time and money on, and it would be a shame if they ruin it and make us quit.


You did not get my point. It was not don't complain. It was control the anger, and complain constructively (this is not as much pointed towards you personally, but towards some of the more agressive posts).

Every time CCP makes a change people go full ******, questioning the intelligence level and skills of the developers in question. Do not do this, when all you have is a feeling that the change will be bad, not need to get personal. The reaction of the community never fits the scale of the implemented scale in my opinion. Also not in this case.

I think everyone who at some time in their life has had a side job in the service sector, has tried being unloaded on by someone completely lost to anger and it is simply not nice. The first times it hurts, and then you go numb and ignores whatever people throw at you. Meaning if you don't control your anger the chances are much smaller CCP will listen. Being excessive angry is not a healthy state to be in, it will affect your health over time. So yeah having such a strong reaction over a computer game is not a healthy sign IMO.

An example of posting constructively:
Dear CCP.
I do not agree with.... due to.... and.... and...
I would recommend to ... and ... and... instead
If not, then consider.... and ...and

And remember CCP, not considering your suggestiong, does not warrant a strong emotional response on your behalf. All is IMO. ofc.

I would just love being able to spend my lunch breaks on these forums, reading funny posts about the game i enjoy. Without getting my energy sucked out of me, from people overrection and lacking common decency.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1750 - 2016-04-16 09:40:28 UTC
sero Hita wrote:
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:

Yes, if it happens the protests will eventually quiet down because those who don't like it either quit or grudgingly learned to live with another bad change.

Or people found it was not so bad after all, after using the feature instead of only basing it on oppinions. See that is the problem with your perspective, you assume only the negative scenarios.

Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:

As for not complaining about the change because video games aren't worth it, Eve is worth it. This is a unique and awesome game that many of us have spent a lot of time and money on, and it would be a shame if they ruin it and make us quit.


You did not get my point. It was not don't complain. It was control the anger, and complain constructively (this is not as much pointed towards you personally, but towards some of the more agressive posts).

Every time CCP makes a change people go full ******, questioning the intelligence level and skills of the developers in question. Do not do this, when all you have is a feeling that the change will be bad, not need to get personal. The reaction of the community never fits the scale of the implemented scale in my opinion. Also not in this case.

I think everyone who at some time in their life has had a side job in the service sector, has tried being unloaded on by someone completely lost to anger and it is simply not nice. The first times it hurts, and then you go numb and ignores whatever people throw at you. Meaning if you don't control your anger the chances are much smaller CCP will listen. Being excessive angry is not a healthy state to be in, it will affect your health over time. So yeah having such a strong reaction over a computer game is not a healthy sign IMO.

An example of posting constructively:
Dear CCP.
I do not agree with.... due to.... and.... and...
I would recommend to ... and ... and... instead
If not, then consider.... and ...and

And remember CCP, not considering your suggestiong, does not warrant a strong emotional response on your behalf. All is IMO. ofc.

I would just love being able to spend my lunch breaks on these forums, reading funny posts about the game i enjoy. Without getting my energy sucked out of me, from people overrection and lacking common decency.


you also cant just dismiss argumants because they may have some emotional basis or because people have freaked out in the past.

most ppl have given reasons why they think this is a bad change or why it doesn't fit in line with the sandbox ideal

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#1751 - 2016-04-16 10:16:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ria Nieyli
sero Hita wrote:
I would just love being able to spend my lunch breaks on these forums, reading funny posts about the game i enjoy. Without getting my energy sucked out of me, from people overrection and lacking common decency.


Lacking common decency? CCP Rise basically told the playerbase that CCP thinks they're ******** and you're accusing people of lacking common decency?

Here:

CCP Rise wrote:
We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior.


If you think that people will accept this as sound reasoning for introducing the feature, it must mean that you think they're stupid.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1752 - 2016-04-16 10:19:01 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
sero Hita wrote:
I would just love being able to spend my lunch breaks on these forums, reading funny posts about the game i enjoy. Without getting my energy sucked out of me, from people overrection and lacking common decency.


Lacking common decency? CCP Rise basically told the playerbase that CCP thinks they're ******** and you're accusing people of lacking common decency?


well idk about that but he does seem to think that we should be on eve during lunch breaks... you know because we can all do that

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1753 - 2016-04-16 10:23:19 UTC
okay how about this


rather than direct SP

make it so evey daily gives you a point
every X points you get a free remap

this solves the issue of year long waits if you change your mind and is definitely an incentive to log in for a large number of people but does not have the same physiological effect on those who can't do them every day.

will ppl log on as much as they would with dailies? probably not but more than the number with the old queue

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Mister Ripley
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1754 - 2016-04-16 10:38:32 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
okay how about this


rather than direct SP

make it so evey daily gives you a point
every X points you get a free remap

this solves the issue of year long waits if you change your mind and is definitely an incentive to log in for a large number of people but does not have the same physiological effect on those who can't do them every day.

will ppl log on as much as they would with dailies? probably not but more than the number with the old queue

Remaps will be sold for AUR like resculps. Gotta milk it.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#1755 - 2016-04-16 10:39:27 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
okay how about this


rather than direct SP

make it so evey daily gives you a point
every X points you get a free remap

this solves the issue of year long waits if you change your mind and is definitely an incentive to log in for a large number of people but does not have the same physiological effect on those who can't do them every day.

will ppl log on as much as they would with dailies? probably not but more than the number with the old queue


How about this:

People don't want dailies. Period.
Jimy F
Strategic Isks Investments Corporation
#1756 - 2016-04-16 10:44:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jimy F
X)
it is pure copy of one of Leage of Leagends game futures, and i think it make some but not many more logins becouse if some1 wish to get more sp he just buy skill injector, it's so simple X)
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1757 - 2016-04-16 10:47:41 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
okay how about this


rather than direct SP

make it so evey daily gives you a point
every X points you get a free remap

this solves the issue of year long waits if you change your mind and is definitely an incentive to log in for a large number of people but does not have the same physiological effect on those who can't do them every day.

will ppl log on as much as they would with dailies? probably not but more than the number with the old queue


How about this:

People don't want dailies. Period.


i'm right there with you but ccp is going to implement them. Period.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1758 - 2016-04-16 10:50:44 UTC
Mister Ripley wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
okay how about this


rather than direct SP

make it so evey daily gives you a point
every X points you get a free remap

this solves the issue of year long waits if you change your mind and is definitely an incentive to log in for a large number of people but does not have the same physiological effect on those who can't do them every day.

will ppl log on as much as they would with dailies? probably not but more than the number with the old queue

Remaps will be sold for AUR like resculps. Gotta milk it.


good point :/

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#1759 - 2016-04-16 10:53:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Ria Nieyli
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
i'm right there with you but ccp is going to implement them. Period.


And then people will leave. It's just how it works when you alter the product away from what your core userbase likes in it.
The **** part is that we supposedly have CSM to help with stuff like that, but it doesn't matter.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1760 - 2016-04-16 11:08:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
i'm right there with you but ccp is going to implement them. Period.


And then people will leave. It's just how it works when you alter the product from what your core userbase likes in it.


lol that's the problem no one or at least not enough will leave and ccp know this

they will turn the heat up slow making sure not to many jump out of the pot

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble