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Lugh Crow-Slave
#1241 - 2016-04-12 09:40:56 UTC
Tomika wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job


Putting an optional thing in the game is neither telling you what to do nor forcing you to play.


As stated b4 what it is doesn't matter it's what it feels like that matters

And loosing 10ksp a day is a hell of a way to make it feel non-optional

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
CowQueen MMXII
#1242 - 2016-04-12 09:51:44 UTC
Ben Ishikela wrote:
outragous!

--- well, let me think about it. ---
10.000 skill points. That would be the same as currently ca 17.5MIsk (= 700Misk/400kSP*10kSP ) for using skill injectors.

Unless you already have certain amounts of SP. My two chars with the most SP will only get 150k per injector, resulting in 2 injectors per character per month.
Of course those characters don't need those SP very badly, but there are circumstances where it's nice to have some that can be distributed freely.

Ben Ishikela wrote:

--- To further add on this:---
We had given numbers like 1.6Toons per Player. And older Players have way more.
Therefor thats 1.6 times the job of just undocking warping to a npc, killing it (making the killing shot or just participate), warping back and dock up. Some would have to do this 10times.


I am pretty sure it was 1.6 accounts per player, meaning up to 5 chars in average.

And although this was mentioned before: not every character can just undock and warp to a belt - at least wormhole residents have a much harder time doing that and also some people that have their corporations war decced.


Moo! Uddersucker, moo!
Tomika
Doomheim
#1243 - 2016-04-12 09:52:42 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Tomika wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job


Putting an optional thing in the game is neither telling you what to do nor forcing you to play.


As stated b4 what it is doesn't matter it's what it feels like that matters

And loosing 10ksp a day is a hell of a way to make it feel non-optional


Ah, so we've gone from "I am being forced" to "well it doesn't matter if we're being forced or not". So you accept that you are not actually being forced to do anything, despite what you wrote previously.

There are lots of things in the game we can do optimally to gain the best results but we don't always do them because... we don't have to.
Ben Ishikela
#1244 - 2016-04-12 09:58:54 UTC
CowQueen MMXII wrote:
Ben Ishikela wrote:
outragous!

--- well, let me think about it. ---
10.000 skill points. That would be the same as currently ca 17.5MIsk (= 700Misk/400kSP*10kSP ) for using skill injectors.

Unless you already have certain amounts of SP. My two chars with the most SP will only get 150k per injector, resulting in 2 injectors per character per month.
Of course those characters don't need those SP very badly, but there are circumstances where it's nice to have some that can be distributed freely.

Ben Ishikela wrote:

--- To further add on this:---
We had given numbers like 1.6Toons per Player. And older Players have way more.
Therefor thats 1.6 times the job of just undocking warping to a npc, killing it (making the killing shot or just participate), warping back and dock up. Some would have to do this 10times.


I am pretty sure it was 1.6 accounts per player, meaning up to 5 chars in average.

And although this was mentioned before: not every character can just undock and warp to a belt - at least wormhole residents have a much harder time doing that and also some people that have their corporations war decced.



Ty for fixing the holes in my argumentation.
What about the conclusion though? It still persists, if not stronger.

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1245 - 2016-04-12 10:03:28 UTC
Tomika wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Tomika wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job


Putting an optional thing in the game is neither telling you what to do nor forcing you to play.


As stated b4 what it is doesn't matter it's what it feels like that matters

And loosing 10ksp a day is a hell of a way to make it feel non-optional


Ah, so we've gone from "I am being forced" to "well it doesn't matter if we're being forced or not". So you accept that you are not actually being forced to do anything, despite what you wrote previously.

There are lots of things in the game we can do optimally to gain the best results but we don't always do them because... we don't have to.


The reasons dailies work is because they make people who are not doing them feel punished that's not good for a sand box ccp should not be telling people how to play

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1246 - 2016-04-12 10:09:08 UTC
Tomika wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job


Putting an optional thing in the game is neither telling you what to do nor forcing you to play.


It's punishing me for not logging in every day. One of the core concepts of eve is that you can train SP at the same rate no matter how much time you have to play.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1247 - 2016-04-12 10:22:44 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Tomika wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job


Putting an optional thing in the game is neither telling you what to do nor forcing you to play.


It's punishing me for not logging in every day. One of the core concepts of eve is that you can train SP at the same rate no matter how much time you have to play.


It's why you don't need to grind in eve

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Tomika
Doomheim
#1248 - 2016-04-12 10:23:10 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
The reasons dailies work is because they make people who are not doing them feel punished that's not good for a sand box ccp should not be telling people how to play


I thought we agreed they are not actually telling you how to play What?
Tomika
Doomheim
#1249 - 2016-04-12 10:24:15 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
It's punishing me for not logging in every day. One of the core concepts of eve is that you can train SP at the same rate no matter how much time you have to play.


That ended with injectors.
Chjna
the Goose Flock
#1250 - 2016-04-12 10:24:49 UTC
NovaCat13 wrote:
No thanks



This

Remove T2 BPOs
Tomika
Doomheim
#1251 - 2016-04-12 10:25:32 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
It's why you don't need to grind in eve


Standings say hi.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1252 - 2016-04-12 10:27:14 UTC
Tomika wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
It's why you don't need to grind in eve


Standings say hi.


keyword here "need" standings don't provide a benefit over anyone else

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1253 - 2016-04-12 10:30:28 UTC
Tomika wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
The reasons dailies work is because they make people who are not doing them feel punished that's not good for a sand box ccp should not be telling people how to play


I thought we agreed they are not actually telling you how to play What?


No we agreed on "making" not "telling"

As fir standings people have been wanting them removed for years and now that you don't need anything over 5 it's not much of a grind anymore you can get that in a day

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#1254 - 2016-04-12 10:30:50 UTC
NovaCat13 wrote:
No thanks



This.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Kym Mena
World Burning
#1255 - 2016-04-12 10:37:15 UTC
Tomika wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
The reasons dailies work is because they make people who are not doing them feel punished that's not good for a sand box ccp should not be telling people how to play


I thought we agreed they are not actually telling you how to play What?

Nooo... Of course they're not. They are only saying that you can keep playing the way you want, doing the things you do, but if you do this one little thing that they want you to do they will give you 3.98 million SP over the course of a year. Whether you think the SP, specifically, is a problem or not, you can't argue that it was chosen because it was a valuable commodity. This makes this gimmick, at best, bribery to log in. Who doesn't love some good ole' fashioned bribery being used to lever them into doing things?

If Eve was going to remain the sandbox we all know and love then they would be looking for ways to provide us with the tools and environment in which to continue creating some of the most unique content in gaming. Sadly. they are, admittedly, taking the lazy way out to boost numbers and gain a false sense of accomplishment and game health so that they can play their fiddle while Rome burns.

By simplifying Eve and changing the landscape of the sandbox into a real estate development, it seems as if the Eve we all fled to when other games bored us or lost our trust and respect is riding into the sunset. I can only hope that the light of our torches brings Enlightenment to those who have strayed from The Path up in the land of Ice and Fire.

(The underlined portion is notable in this case. With the rapport that has been established between the Eve community and the Devs, such a complete disregard for our feedback as the Devs prepare to tell us what is good for us is completely out of line and unacceptable.)
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#1256 - 2016-04-12 10:49:43 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Erihn Sabrovich wrote:


[quote]A "normal" player, with only ONE account, will have to grind it's way to be able to fly higher hulls.
No. Largely because no such grind exists.



Yet

Exhibit A: The skill injector market.

It exists.

A signature :o
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#1257 - 2016-04-12 10:50:44 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Tomika wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
It's why you don't need to grind in eve


Standings say hi.


keyword here "need" standings don't provide a benefit over anyone else



Standings are *absolutely mandatory* to participate in trading at present (in any competitive way).

I don't flip PLEX often, but when I do it is in Dodixie (where I have outstanding standings). I would lose ISK on all of those transactions if I carried them out in Jita.

Same goes for Marauders and premium deadspace modules.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1258 - 2016-04-12 10:55:49 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Tomika wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
It's why you don't need to grind in eve


Standings say hi.


keyword here "need" standings don't provide a benefit over anyone else



Standings are *absolutely mandatory* to participate in trading at present (in any competitive way).

I don't flip PLEX often, but when I do it is in Dodixie (where I have outstanding standings). I would lose ISK on all of those transactions if I carried them out in Jita.

Same goes for Marauders and premium deadspace modules.


Good thing you can do that in a citadel now

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#1259 - 2016-04-12 11:03:58 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Tomika wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
The reasons dailies work is because they make people who are not doing them feel punished that's not good for a sand box ccp should not be telling people how to play


I thought we agreed they are not actually telling you how to play What?


No we agreed on "making" not "telling"

As fir standings people have been wanting them removed for years and now that you don't need anything over 5 it's not much of a grind anymore you can get that in a day

Level 5 missions say otherwise. Even so, I have over 7 standings on several characters and they only took 2-3 days each.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1260 - 2016-04-12 11:07:22 UTC
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Tomika wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
The reasons dailies work is because they make people who are not doing them feel punished that's not good for a sand box ccp should not be telling people how to play


I thought we agreed they are not actually telling you how to play What?


No we agreed on "making" not "telling"

As fir standings people have been wanting them removed for years and now that you don't need anything over 5 it's not much of a grind anymore you can get that in a day

Level 5 missions say otherwise. Even so, I have over 7 standings on several characters and they only took 2-3 days each.


Lol for some reason I was thinking level 5s took 5.0

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble