Wormholes

Anyone arguing that increasing mass on WHs does not benefit large corps way more than small corps is either lying, ignorant or selling something.

PS: There's a really big difference between 3 dreads and 4 dreads Rek. There really is.

Corp size and capital power is all relative. Yes there are extreme examples like hard knocks but most corps will not field 3 capitals and a large sub cap fleet in the current system because of the huge risk and logistical nightmare of getting the fleet home. People only do it if they think they are going to win which is why I said 1 extra dread won't matter.

In reality most people will just bring 2 caps to a fight in a connected wormhole and returned home. I think this is better than the current situation.

I honestly cant tell if this is just flat out ignorance, trolling, or if you're actually that naive.
whatever the case may be, you're certainly wrong.

PS: oh yes, and im shocked, SHOOOOOOCCCKKKKKKEEEDD that blood union thinks upping WH mass is a good idea. seriously, SHOCKED...
upping the mass doesnt add 'variety', it just adds more caps.

How much mass do the capital plates add?
How big is the difference in strength in WH-PvP between the current activetank fits and a new bufferfit?
If you just bring a Nestor or a second capital you can refit to buffer right after the jump so no reason to buff the Whmass for that.

Oh WH's really confuse me

As an alternative that might balance concerns of smaller WH corporations with the desire for more PvE and PvP content, perhaps a new capital only module could be introduced that would halve the mass of the ship similar to the warp disruption array on HICs?

Keep jumpable mass the same, increase total WH mass so we can make battleship fleets shadow T3 fleets.
Allow maximum of one more cap through (total of four) a fresh wormhole?
Increase C4 connection mass to allow one capital.

The Corps living in C4 wormholes atm are living there for a reason.
And most of the time it is thex either can´t or won´t have capital warfare for whatever reasons or they just want to have the edge by having acces to capitals when aggressors don´t,
but do enjoy the double j-space statics that isolate them off from k-space more than any other class of wormhole is able to (no random k-space connections apart from those frig holes ...)

I highly doubt you will find a single C4 corp/alliance who is gonna be happy about the prospect of having C5 static C4 corps bringing caps with in their hole for whatever purposes they might have.
And given the differences in risk vs reward and the disparity in income of those two classes - i don´t see a single reason why the risk for C4 corps should be upped (remeber not everybody has a static C5 or even a static C4 living there) for no apparent gains ... then there probably are at most 2-3 C4 corps who might utilize this for their benefit. (and they also choose to live in C4 for a reason)
Every other one will be more at the mercy of the C5/C6 corp than they already are -
This proposal seems to be another attempt at getting CCP to help the strong ones to prey on the weak.

I´m also no fan of allowing more caps through wormholes.
I for one think that given the asset safety in j-space there should be a defenders advantage and allowing more caps through even just one ist cutting into that, which it shouldn´t and the number 3 is in my opinion just right.
Because you have to make choices do we go in bhaals deep or do we keep ourself an escape route open if the fight goes south ... and since cap escalations in C5 will stop being a reason to wanting to bring more caps into your static in few days i see no reason why there should be any change at all especially since this will generate more o chore if you wanna roll your hole (needing more players or more time) - and that is chore enough as it is.

Your other point regarding Battleship fleets - g
given that most high class connection are 3B you already can bring around 15 single plated battleships into a hole and back out. Only the bigger corps are able to field that amount of players on a regular basis - and given the fact that a plated t3 is around 20M you can field 5 t3 instead of a single battleship. What means if you are 20 guys in combat ships you can still bring around 14 BS and jump back out.
So BS fleets are already a thing in j-space (contrary to common believe it seems) and upping this limit given the combat capabilities of Battleships is once again a change targeted at the smaller corps decreasing their ability to defend their holes.
thereby defeating the right to existence of j-space in the first place which is the place to be for small corps.
Most of us are here because we don´t want to be part of some mega corp where we are F1 monkeys pushing one single button and where the ones bringing more guys to the field inevitable win.
Places where this is true already exist - they are called low and null sec.
J-space is better than that and should stay that way.

I stopped reading when you called it j-space.

I think either increasing the maximum allowable jump mass, or reducing the mass reasonably significantly on capitals to allow 2 capitals + a small support fleet to go back and forth without trapping out the last capital would be a fairly cool approach (so 4 capital passes total). It would allow groups to bring out their capitals more often by being able to bring the capitals home post fight without trying to find a k-space exit.

Increasing the wormhole mass does provide the ability to field more subcapitals into a fight, and being able to fit an eve bigger T3 blob through the Wormhole is hardly something that would be desirable, but it also could pave the way for more extensive use of battleships outside of Bhaalgorns and Vindicators being used in capital based fleets. I think looking at ways to make more ships (battleships) useful in wormhole fights to shake up the meta is a very good thing, given how the meta hasn't changed from T3's since their introduction. However you also don't want to just make it so the defacto setup is bringing more Bhaalgorns to every fight and end up with a capital fleet + support of 10 bhaalgorns.


Most changes (and I'm still 50/50 on the jump distance changes) that shake up wormholes I do think are a good thing, everything is known at this point and having to find new ways of working with larger holes with varying hole masses is a good thing in my opinion. And to everyone complaining that any changes would nerf small groups straight into the ground I don't really see this, I'm not suggesting you allow 10 capitals to transverse a wormhole, if Wormhole masses had always been 5b not 3b you would not be here asking for the masses to be reduced.

Finally given we are losing combat refitting the survivability of each capital has effectively been reduced because you can't extreme fit in one direction or another, by allowing more capitals to transverse a wormhole either by increasing the maximum mass or (I think probably the best) reducing the mass of capitals significantly means we can bring more caps, and thus when one dies it does not necessarily mean the fight is now over because of it, as you may have another capital either waiting to jump in or already on field of its type.

If that's not quite clear and I know my wording can sometimes be off, I'll give an example. Currently most cap based fleets in wormholes are either 2 triage + dread or 2 dread + triage, in both cases this gives you a single capital of 1 role, and generally (obliviously there are exceptions) if you take out that lone capital then the fleet crumbles either through the lack of DPS to kill anything or because you no longer have logistics, if we can field more capitals to start with then the fights become more varied with how they play out when you lose 1 capital.