Wormholes

Side note...

If the WH community knew Corbexx was going to join goons, he would have never gotten all our votes.

so now we have a goon helping dictate how WH sites work.

it is completely stock standard to have points available in current escalation fleets anyway, this isnt really a problem.
the only way it's an issue is if the drifter spawns way out of point range and immediately warps off, as that would suck.
personally I think it should only have 1 warp strength, requiring 3 long points is a little excessive.

Cool changes, we really needed some new material to WH pve.

The old way forced anti social and the farm hole culture that really put WHs on the fast track to stagnation.

This puts ppl in their chains more with legit capitals.

I hope the WH mass triples. Battleship doctrines, more caps in statics, more possible openings for new sigs to open up between you and your pos.

the drifter should be aggressive and not run from a fleet.

Support. but escalations should only be doable with caps. the regular part of the c5 site should be doable with subcaps. (from my understanding the regular part of the c5 site is not changing in isk value)

come to think of it, I dont really see why the drifter should spawn if youre not using caps. doesnt really make any sense.

Perfect explanation of what will happen with current changes, too bad most of people don't understand it, and those that pretend they do/argue the most don't even do PVE/PVP/Live in C5/C6.

What we really needed is to make site require more capitals, makes it dangerous to run, be afraid of your ships getting attacked out of nowhere because you are using these extremely expensive capitals where on average each is 4-8bil, and you can make 5-10b a day with 2-5 people easily, and the risk of loosing them is almost non-existent.

Most of people were farming for years and didn't get attacked a single time, and I know for fact that a lot of farming groups were NEVER seen doing sites. NPC kill api was helping you get idea when someone does sites, but RIP that.

So, from someone who's been hunting for years, and who's been doing escalations for years, and hunted down hundreds of site crews, and got dropped on couple of times only over years and mostly because we waited in a site to get a fight otherwise we could always run away.

IT IS TOO DAMN EASY risk/reward, so now, you are making site different (harder, maybe?), making us have to point the sleeper, giving similar isk, but allowing the site to be run down with subcaps and you can still get bunch of isk with it, maybe you can even use capitals at range to spawn escalations and run them down with subcap fleets?

You can basically do sites in very cheap capitals, for escalations now you require 3 capitals, dread, carrier, FAX, and you probably don't need to have them all on grid, and most of people won't even do escalations.

And, that's a PVE/reward part, talking about RISK, there's almost none?
-New sig spawn where you had to click scan probes to see it (couple years ago) - removed, 99% of people can get out of any site with 99% of their PVE crew the same second a new sig pops up in probe scanner, which they do of course

-NPC kill api - want to see when some people run sites, to logoff in their hole, try to hunt them trough their static, rageroll for them? Nope - REMOVED

-Watchlist, wanna leave your client on when you are sleeping so you can see when your targets are mass logging in? Nope, watchlist removed

-Want to see if your targets were doing sites while you were out doing stuff IRL? Warp to a site see if everything is cleared down to trigger? NOPE sites get cleared

I could probably think of more things but this is basically turning wormholes into a safe group pve where you need even less capitals to do sites and with time people making the isk are more and more safer.

I hope I'm wrong but, over years if I learned something about CCP Fozzie and changes to wormhole space, it is that every time it was boosting safety of people running PVE, making it impossible to do evictions (Hello Citadels), or simply trying to discourage people from living in wormholes if they want to do anything other than PVE.

@Fozzie: If Drifters pile up when spawned but not killed, will they also warp into other combat sites to help their sleeper comrades while those are fighting against a player pve fleet? If this is the case, then a system could be easily made unusable for months by players (residents by accident or attackers/disrupters with malicious intent) completing one or more sites and letting the Drifter escape. The escaped Drifter would then start helping the sleepers in other sites making each new site much more difficult than the last one.

Meaning that if the residents for example tried to kill the Drifter in one site but failed and it escapes, they will go against two Drifters in the next site and fail even harder, and after that they can basically forget about doing PvE in their hole and move out. How will you stop this vicious cycle from happening?


I also share the concerns that the changes could make capitals less useful in high-class pve which would also harm pvp corps hunting for cap ganks. However I'm optimistic that this new concept could even improve the situation if done right. Now, usually 2 dreads and 2 carriers are used to escalate, but the one carrier only warps in at range to trigger his wave and immediately leaves again, and the other carrier often does not triage. So in most cases, gankers can catch two dreads and in the best case also the one carrier but rarely all four capitals.

If the new drifter now encourages the use of at least four committed capitals or even more, then it could be an improvement also for the hunters. And if the bearing fleet uses subcapitals instead surely this subcap fleet will have to be quite large and/or shiny, so also a worthwile target for attackers.

So there is good potential here for improvements all around, it will just depend on execution :)

No, because this is still a MMO and the consequences would be too dire with too little effort by the 'system poopers'.

If one Drifter is a real challenge even to an established high-class corp, as it is intended to be, then this naturally means that two Drifters are a HUGE challenge and three or more are impossible to beat.

And an attacker would only need a few minutes at any time of the day to toxify the system. No corp can or should be expected to guard their whole system 24/7 to stop mass Drifter spawning.

And even without malicious attackers, in a big corp there can always be some newbies or people just make mistakes and in 10 minutes of fail they could unintentionally toxify the whole system for their 70 corp mates who maybe were sleeping that time, that is not balanced.

edit: Maybe an easy solution would be to limit the maximum number of drifters present on any grid to two, so attackers or incompetent residents can create an extra challenge, but one that is still possible to recover from.

I came here to voice my opinions on the changes, but Peter sums it up.

You were meant to nerf income and increase risk. I think the income nerf is about right, but risk is completely gone now you can just burn the site down to the drifter with subs.

This is what happens when the so-called "WH CSM member" knows nothing about running sites besides warping 10 dreads in to a C6 mag site.