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haha I miss EvE just because of the community :) so much hate and brainfarts. I think I will just start to play again, so I can read more amusing crap like this.


from what I have read you repeat the same over and over again, just with different wording. all your so called "points" got busted in this thread several times now and you still keep going on... ignorance must be a blessing


he will not, cause everyone else is wrong and he is right trololo. he will just repeat what he said and add some stupid sentence to it cause he thinks he is clever


considerung the tracking of lasers in general, there is no reason it should not get the usual 7.5% bonus. I bet no one will fit a point but a web to be able track targets that get too close and most will count on mates or targets stupidity to hold them in place :)


nevertheless, in my opinion the new enyo received the biggest boost and is a powerhouse with the changes. you can hold the target in range, deal crapload of dmg and survive alot of beating. the extra mid on the hawk is also not to be scoffed at. both the enyo and the hawk are clear winners of the changes.

All considered, the Retribution needs some extra damage more than it needs the extra tracking.

Because unless it suddenly gets a third mid, it's never going to be a good solo ship. Even with 7.5% tracking bonus. Cap hungry weapons, mediocre dps and lack of web are just too crippling for that. In a gang you'll most likely have someone else webbing and with that extra damage is more useful.

You're wrong, Skynet is now self-aware, and I'm taking control of the drum machine.

Given that a Retri with scorch can hit out stupidly far in addition to being ridiculously tanky and dealing very decent damage, I think it's perfectly acceptable for the Retri to have a weakness in the form of tracking.




Especially since Enyo right now is quite decent. It might have been overbuffed.



'cap hungry weapons' don't mean a thing when you have insane amounts of base cap. A retribution is cap stable with dual light pulses and MWD running.

Edit: Laerise was faster but it's pretty much like this. The AFs with cap using weapons can run web + scrambler + guns (who will deactive often) with a nos while being neuted. The AFs with capless weapons can run web + scram + a pulsed rep with a nos while being neuted. Very big difference.

Add to that the Retribution's inability to control range due to the lack of a web, and also the inability to kill light drones due to lack of web, and it is very significantly disadvantaged while going up against larger ships.

[quote=Kahega Amielden]


Especially since Enyo right now is quite decent. It might have been overbuffed.

[quote]

I keep hearing this, exactly as I heard it when the Talos came out. It was wrong when said about the Talos, and it's going to be wrong now. I agree the eft numbers look nice, but flying the ship is a different matter. Even with the null buff I'd say it only just about reached parity with most of the other AFs, I certainly wouldn't put it any further ahead of them. I mean look at it's bonuses - it has a 10% optimal bonus ffs. Now on rails that'd be nice, but nobody really expects it to be used well like that so that leaves a blaster fit, at which point this bonus is worth a whopping 800m !!! Yes, you read it, 800 whole metric metres. And that's with null !! With antimatter or void it's worth spit.

Can we please just move away from eft numbers, they're an incredibly poor guide to how good a ship will actually be, and concentrate on flying the damned things?

@darkstar
Not to disagree with you completely, but very few will agree that the Navy frigates are underpowered.
The comet, slicer, & hookbill are all very very good ships. The firetail is simply weak by comparison.
Keep in mind that the faction ships have a very low effective skill requirement which is kind of a big deal.
Buff firetail

Oh and aS it was pointed out earlier, they can do minor plexes and such which T2 cannot.

First sensible thing I've seen you say Compared to the other navy frigs, the firetail is bad

@Darkstar
I don't know if you missed the post (frankly theres a lot being posted), but it has been said that there are some existing imbalances in the game (imo). Lower tier T1 frigates & cruisers are an example, as are a couple of the Pirate frigates.

Boosting AFs or not doesn't change the fact that those need looking at. Right now CCP is looking @ AFs, and I'm sure they'll look at the rest at some point as well.

As for the Wolf beating the Dram, that may well be, but we don't know what T2 the Pirate frigates are supposed to be equal to. In my experience, the Dramiel makes a damn decent interceptor since it's still pretty fast.

And in regard to the Firetail, I've no idea. A flat boost to its damage bonus would probably be enough.
Don't forget, Navy frigates are supposed to be better versions of T1, not better or equal to T2

@Grungolash
To start, T1 frigates aren't even on the map.
They are already outperformed by the large number and variety of T2 frigates.
Curbing AFs ability just so your T1 frigate has a chance is not how things work in the world of T2.
How many Stabbers do you see taking down Vagabonds?

The gains don't upset the balance of T1 cruisers. If anything it will promote the use of Destroyers and more T1 Cruisers.
Larger ships, such as they, offer significant advantages over the smaller frigates. This is especially true as the number of combatants rises.

Nobody is denying that AFs can be effective in a few circumstances, but the niche is quite small.
Any ship is effective in the right hands, I'm sure there are a ton of people who play eve who can link you hundreds of crazy killmails done by ridiculous ships. That doesn't mean that AFs don't need a boost.

As far as costs go, EVE needs isk sinks, so more expensive ships aren't really a bad thing.
And besides that, the *good* AFs have been more expensive to fly than tier1 Battlecruisers for long time now.

If you think that AFs are going to comepletely replace the people who are currently flying faction, t1 frigs, destroyers, or t1 cruisers; Think again. They aren't cheap. If you want to lose a few T1 ships a day, go right ahead because it won't hurt your wallet too much. If you want to lose a few AFs on the other hand, that will cost you a pretty penny when all said and done.

For the same reason HACs aren't the dominant force.
Vexor dies to Ishtar every time. Ishtar is ~125m, Vexor is ~3m.

Also, it's been discussed to death.
AFs can not, and will not "replace" any other T2 frig role. Just like CovOps frigates never replaced Interceptors, despite the world crying about them. Everyone has failed to prove how the AFs will be replacing T1 cruisers and whenever I ask about it I get the "just 'cause" answer. Real productive, right?

Perhaps you should pop on sisi and give the ships a whirl rather than moan about the sanctity of Rifters & low-sec.

Thing is. Once you blow one thing out of proportion. Then you have to increase another thing to compensate. There will almost always be unintended consequences. Someone stated as much in a thread not to long ago. Honestly, that's what I'm truly worried about.

However this will not stop me from flying ships that other pilots believe are bad and are not worth flying over another. I tend to just fly ships that look good or I enjoy flying and just ignore most other pilots opinion on what I fly. However, I'm always aware of the limitations of all ships I use. You'd have to be as a pilot, I suppose.

Thing is! The player base has blown certain things out of proportion. In the past and present. Which often ends with CCP making major mistakes in how they respond to player demands or just random implementation of new modules and ships. Just seems to be a never ending cycle of bad ideas and whining for more. I agree with those who correctly point out "you cannot please everyone". However, there must be some middle ground.

All I want from CCP is the introduction of new ships every year...

Anyway, the Retribution is fine the way it is. CCP could increase cpu and power-grid. However, the ship should not have any-more damage or tracking. It's just one of those ships. like the Coercer, which all it would take is a mid slot for most pilots to drop all other destroyers and just fly Coercers. Just one of those ships that are on the EDGE of becoming OVERPOWERED.

However, I'm surprised CCP is implementing any changes to ships @ all. Crazy!


-proxyyyy