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March release - General feedback

First post
Author
Azusa Asara
Asara Corporation
#361 - 2016-03-11 14:25:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Azusa Asara
I am having some issues with the Project Discovery, mainly a classification issue.

I am finding a few images have what looks to be a Cytokinetic Bridge, however it comes up as incorrect.

Are these bridges only very short like in the examples and anything longer is considered incorrect?

The image below is just one of a few different ones I came across that looked to be Cytokinetic Bridges 100% but weren't correct.

Screen Shot!

Edit* Beyond that great feature!

Easy to start and get into, the tutorial could be a little longer to be honest, as I did it on 3 different characters and it was different each time, and didn't teach me that I can "Not" select a classification as well.
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
Cauldron of Ecstasy
#362 - 2016-03-11 14:37:02 UTC
Could we get the death noise turned off for when we loot cans or salvage wrecks. maybe an option to turn it off for PVP/PVE. When i'm out ratting and kill like 6000 harmless frigates. that death noise gets very old fast. same for salvaging.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs

CCP Turtlepower
C C P
C C P Alliance
#363 - 2016-03-11 15:05:18 UTC
o7
Azahar Ortenegro wrote:
Add an option to remove camera inertia. I have no idea why you added this, but it's not a good thing.

We did! There is a slider under the Display&Graphics tab in the Esc menu and if you put it all the way to the right then it is even slightly stiffer than the old camera.

Yana Shakti wrote:
the new camera interactions are very flashy but unhelpful. i don't need the camera swing to add an extra layer of 'excitement' to the game. On the contrary, the pan should be smooth and graceful so i can focus on playing. the new camera effects and mouse interactions are disruptive.

Please try going to the Esc menu, Display&Graphics tab, ticking off Dynamic FOV and Dynamic Center Offset, and setting the inertia slider all the way to the right (stiff). This should make the new camera feel closer to the old one.

Faffywaffy wrote:
Please allow disabling the new camera marquee select, or at least assign it to a different key. I've had TS assigned to the right ctrl key for over 5 years now, and it's going to be hard to adjust.

Go to the Esc menu, Shortcuts tab, Combat tab, and change the 'Lock Target' hotkey to something else, and you should be good.

Yossarian Toralen wrote:
Having to zoom out every time I undock will get old quickly.

This is not occurring for us, please file a bug report with some screenshots if you have the time. Thanks!

Hra Neuvosto wrote:
the new camera still doesnt stick to your ship when you undock.

Please try disabling "Dynamic Camera Offset" in the Esc menu, Display&Graphics tab.

Cien Banchiere wrote:
I appreciate all the work and effort put into the new camera,but now the camera is even more broke than previous. It's what I imagine the pov of a lasso being thrown is. When I go to warp to something the camera spins around my ship nonstop until I warp. Then it jams into place.

This sounds like a bug, could you please file an in-game bug report right after this happens? Thanks in advance!


Hope you all have a nice weekend,
CCP Turtlepower
Gali goyl
Vertical Industrial Partners Limited
#364 - 2016-03-11 15:21:41 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Makari Aeron wrote:
So CCP Lebowski, the problem here is not keeping the people from getting hunted who are on watch lists, but those of us who use watch lists to keep ourselves safe.

I'm from Providence. Those who have been there know that Honorable Third Party and many other reds like to hotdrop us. Fine. The problem is that they log off in local and relog later and hot drop. Thus if we don't know if they've logged off in local, the can log back in and hotdrop the people in local there. Often, they log off in combat sites or mining sites so that they can instantly hot drop people in there. Once upon a time, these "log off traps" were considered illegal or at the very least people would get reimbursed for their losses as such. Since about 2012 or 2013, that stopped.

To me the problem isn't keeping the person safe who can't be arsed to make sure they're safe because their in a war dec or to figure out a good fitting so they dont' get ganked, but instead you have penalized the people who kept themselves from being hunted by hotdroppers who realistically have no counter with the current mechanics other than to have a counter hot drop fleet ready 23.5/7 or having people watch every system in the area 23.5/7 and never take their eyes off local. It's not feasible. Without the watchlist mechanic as it was, the gameplay of myself and my friends is severely hampered to the point where it's neither fun nor worth my time and effort to keep my numerous alt accounts running.

Since 2011, I've seen more and more ways to "have quick and easy fights". While this does in deed counter that to some extent in HISEC, it does the exact opposite for NULLSEC.

I plead with you, CCP, to add in some sort of compensation mechanic to know who is logged off in the systems in which you have Sov, be it some sort of structure or module. Otherwise, this game seems like it may become unplayable for me. I truly hope it does not as after nearly 7 years of sweat equity, I don't want to lose what I've built in the game both in fake space ships and in friendships. Please either reconsider this change or give us some mechanic to compensate for log off traps.

Sincerely,
Makari Aeron

This game used to be a complex game of intel management. Not so much who could get the most intel but who could sift through all the available intel in an efficient manner. We would literally get bombarded with more info than you possibly use and you'd have to figure out what to pay attention to and what to ignore.

It seems that once again you are on a path to dumb down and simplify the game in what I am calling the WoWification of Eve.

CCP while you are on the path of getting rid of intel sources that you can't opt out of why not get rid of the killboards? How about removing employment history from the game? Why not just allow names changes while you are at it? Watchlisting reds in an intel gathering mechanic no different from a myriad of other's that no one can opt out of.

Removing intel from the game is not adding content it is removing it. I seriously wonder if you guys even play this game. No joke. Do you play it?


It seems like all the chages/new content are geared towards the Mega Alliances. No wonder I'm the only one left in my corp from 8 years ago.
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Goonswarm Federation
#365 - 2016-03-11 15:23:15 UTC
CCP Turtlepower wrote:

Faffywaffy wrote:
Please allow disabling the new camera marquee select, or at least assign it to a different key. I've had TS assigned to the right ctrl key for over 5 years now, and it's going to be hard to adjust.

Go to the Esc menu, Shortcuts tab, Combat tab, and change the 'Lock Target' hotkey to something else, and you should be good.

Hope you all have a nice weekend,
CCP Turtlepower

Hey. Between the most ubiquitous hotkey in the game and this new hardly-accurate or useful function, let's try giving precendence the more important one.
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Goonswarm Federation
#366 - 2016-03-11 15:25:11 UTC
Tribal Trogdor
Doomheim
#367 - 2016-03-11 15:37:36 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Hey all,

Just dropping by to shed some light on the watch list->buddy list change that was done by Team Five 0 in this release, and the reasoning behind it.

For a long time the watch list has had two main use cases: tracking the online status of friends, and tracking enemies of one kind or another. While we were happy with the first use case, for some time we've had design concerns about the latter. There are a couple of reasons for this. Firstly, the information provided is 100% accurate all the time without any risk to the pilot’s receiving it. This means that the best (and really only) choice for a pilot is to add enemies, as it doesn’t cost them anything and they don’t put themselves at any risk by doing it. We've discussed before how we’re not really keen on non choices in New Eden (See the clone removal for one example of this). Secondly, a pilot concerned about people watching them has no in-game choice to counter this overpowered source of information. They can either log in and face the fact that notifications have instantly appeared for everyone wanting to hurt them, or simply not play. As you can imagine, that’s not a choice that we really want to encourage!

We understand that for many people, this will fundamentally change the way you can use the (now renamed) buddy list, and we apologize for any short term inconvenience this may cause. We’re happy to discuss any use cases we may have neglected and any suggestions for future iteration that don’t contradict the reasoning outlined above.

Thanks in advance for your feedback!


How do I find out that my friends came back to game after taking a break for a few months?

Why does my Corp CEO show as offline in local, Corp chat, alliance chat, station? I have very good reasons for wanting to know when my CEO logs in. He probably does not need to know when EVERY single Corp member logs in.

At least make it so that I can buddy list my Corp mates without having to make them also buddy list me. Some of us had to add and re-add each other multiple times to get the system to realize we actually wanted to be buddies.


You want to know if you CEO is on without having to buddy list? Cool feature they added awhile back called corp chat
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#368 - 2016-03-11 15:39:16 UTC
New camera feels a lot better but therre are still a couple of deal breaker for me:

1. I can't CTRL+drag to select object. It works, maybe, once or twice then it stops working. This is in Orbit mode. In tactical mode I can never get it to work. I feel this is one of the greatest improvements of the new camera (not interested in Hollywood shenanigans myself) and I can't get it to work.

2. In tactical mode, after panning with right click, I want to recenter in my ship. I can't find any other way of doing this other than clicking on the Tactical Mode button again. This resets the camera and point it to my ship, but it zooms it all the way in, forcing me to zoom all the way out, manually, immediately after centering on my ship. This is unacceptable in the middle of a fight. Is there any other way? Can it preserve the zoom level after centering?

Also, project discovery fails to bring back results after I submit, or fails to bring in a new image. It may be because the hamsters are all stressed out in the first days of the release, but it's been a pain to use, most of the time being down.


PS: Seems that if I drag to the LEFT (like 2cm to the left) of my intended target (even though therre are no objects in space in the drag rectangle) then the lock works just fine. Is this a bug?
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#369 - 2016-03-11 16:15:05 UTC
Last patch removed the GONG! Which I admit was a bit too much, however, the audio clue was a good idea, can you bring it back a lot subtler. Maybe a tiny chirp instead of a GONG!?

Also add an option to disable it for those who still think EVE has no sound.
Oraac Ensor
#370 - 2016-03-11 16:27:22 UTC
The gong has gone - thanks be.

Please let it and all its siblings stay dead.

The existing explosions give all the notice we need when targets are destroyed.
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#371 - 2016-03-11 16:53:07 UTC
JonnyPew wrote:
...
- A destroyed target doesn't disappear from the locked target list fast enough


I agree, the animation is welcomed, but it should be a LOT faster.
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#372 - 2016-03-11 17:03:45 UTC
Midnight Hope wrote:
Last patch removed the GONG! Which I admit was a bit too much, however, the audio clue was a good idea, can you bring it back a lot subtler. Maybe a tiny chirp instead of a GONG!?

Also add an option to disable it for those who still think EVE has no sound.


There is a very subtle chirp when target if destroyed. At least there used to be.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!

S GARG
LULZ for Taxes
#373 - 2016-03-11 17:30:35 UTC
Whatever they did last night my launcher no longer works, so here I am waiting for support or help with reinstalling. YAWN!Roll
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#374 - 2016-03-11 17:46:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
CCP Lebowski wrote:
We understand that for many people, this will fundamentally change the way you can use the (now renamed) buddy list, and we apologize for any short term inconvenience this may cause. We’re happy to discuss any use cases we may have neglected and any suggestions for future iteration that don’t contradict the reasoning outlined above.

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

Use case you probably didn't consider: Wormhole space

The use of watchlist in wormholes was fundamentally different than K-space. Yes, there were some people who used it to gank ratting capitals (similar to watchlisting supers). However, the vast majority of it's use was in tandem with "active" intel activities - ie scouting targets.

This use case wasn't broken - it was fundamentally necessary. Because there is no local in WH space, there is no way to distinguish between a cloaked pilot and an offline pilot. You can be diligently watching someone (doing "active intel" , which should be encouraged!) when suddenly they warp off and disappear. Did they cloak or go offline? There is literally no way to find out now. This problem doesn't exist in K-space because of local and locators. You can infer that they are cloaked because they are still in local. If they disappear from local you can check nearby systems to locate them. If that fails, you can always run a locator to be sure. We don't even have locators in WH space! So there is literally no way to know if I'm wasting my time waiting on someone who isn't even playing the game.

This might seem like a short term inconvenience, but it is a HUGE permanent problem for content in WH space. 90% of pilots spend their time in cloaked ships unless actively ratting or pvping. It's also quite common for people to log out in cloaked ships for extra stealth when they log back in. When I'm scouting and watch someone cloak up, I now have to decide how long to wait and see if they will come back. 20 minutes? An hour? Three hours? I can't count how many times I've been watching a target and getting ready to fight when they suddenly log out and never come back. In which case I move on and find something else to entertain me. Apparently now I'm just supposed to wait around on the off chance they'll return?

One natural solution would be to allow locator agents in wormhole space. However I do not consider this an appropriate solution. It's absurd that I would need someone in k-space to tell me what happened to someone I was literally just looking at in a wormhole. In the real world people can't just disappear into a parallel universe. This a game - we need some way to distinguish between people playing it with us and those who are visiting their grandparents or baking cookies!

Another solution would be to implement watchlist in such a way that a pilot doesn't show as "online" until you have confirmed it by "seeing" them in space/chat etc. At which point the watchlist would function naturally and show you if they log out. I don't think this is a great solution either because it could be easily abused by logging in and out periodically (or accidentally with bad internet).

If the main concern was supers, there were other ways to solve that problem. Disable locators in null sec...allow them to dock (already coming with citadel changes!) etc. You seem to have been duped into believing that the watchlist is "free intel", a naughty buzzword. How is it freer than local? Or locators (cost is basically irrelevant unless you're hunting many targets, which of course now you must do since you don't know who is online!) ? Locators are particularly silly. You have to grind a bunch of unrelated standing just to use them. They're only useful if you have an alt since you need to fly around to get to your target. And there's no counter play for them either.

TLDR: Players need some way of collecting intel. Just because something can be used as "free intel" in certain situations doesn't mean it isn't absolutely necessary in others. You say you don't like non-choices. My choice now is to sit around and wait for content or sit around and wait for content, instead of going out and finding some actively. Help me CCP Lebowski. You're my only hope.

PS: I love wormholes and the unique PVP environment that exists because of the lack of local (among other things). It is unlike gameplay anywhere else in EVE. However, this change left us with one too few intel tools to actually find content without a lot of time wasting (something us scanners can't afford as we already work so hard to find content).

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Draconas109
Nanite Systems Robotics Group
#375 - 2016-03-11 17:53:48 UTC
Draconas109 wrote:
gong: it's annoying as all hell, please remove it or better yet, add a volume button

station environment: you're killing my FPS while raising my temperature output for something's that was a pain in the ass for the devs, so now you make it a pain in the ass for your users, please add it back.

the scope: please add a volume button or a mute button, while I liked the novelty of the audio the first time, it's pissing me right the **** off after the third time, imagine how im feeling after 4 hours today.


I haven't been on much in the past few months, and the one day that I do come back, you're making me regret it CCP



One problem fixed CCP, two more still exist
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#376 - 2016-03-11 18:01:51 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
This a game - we need some way to distinguish between people playing it with us and those who are visiting their grandparents or baking cookies!

for some reason i think you have never heard about AFK cloaking..... What?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Kelari
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#377 - 2016-03-11 18:04:16 UTC
Gali goyl wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Makari Aeron wrote:
So CCP Lebowski, the problem here is not keeping the people from getting hunted who are on watch lists, but those of us who use watch lists to keep ourselves safe.

I'm from Providence. Those who have been there know that Honorable Third Party and many other reds like to hotdrop us. Fine. The problem is that they log off in local and relog later and hot drop. Thus if we don't know if they've logged off in local, the can log back in and hotdrop the people in local there. Often, they log off in combat sites or mining sites so that they can instantly hot drop people in there. Once upon a time, these "log off traps" were considered illegal or at the very least people would get reimbursed for their losses as such. Since about 2012 or 2013, that stopped.

To me the problem isn't keeping the person safe who can't be arsed to make sure they're safe because their in a war dec or to figure out a good fitting so they dont' get ganked, but instead you have penalized the people who kept themselves from being hunted by hotdroppers who realistically have no counter with the current mechanics other than to have a counter hot drop fleet ready 23.5/7 or having people watch every system in the area 23.5/7 and never take their eyes off local. It's not feasible. Without the watchlist mechanic as it was, the gameplay of myself and my friends is severely hampered to the point where it's neither fun nor worth my time and effort to keep my numerous alt accounts running.

Since 2011, I've seen more and more ways to "have quick and easy fights". While this does in deed counter that to some extent in HISEC, it does the exact opposite for NULLSEC.

I plead with you, CCP, to add in some sort of compensation mechanic to know who is logged off in the systems in which you have Sov, be it some sort of structure or module. Otherwise, this game seems like it may become unplayable for me. I truly hope it does not as after nearly 7 years of sweat equity, I don't want to lose what I've built in the game both in fake space ships and in friendships. Please either reconsider this change or give us some mechanic to compensate for log off traps.

Sincerely,
Makari Aeron

This game used to be a complex game of intel management. Not so much who could get the most intel but who could sift through all the available intel in an efficient manner. We would literally get bombarded with more info than you possibly use and you'd have to figure out what to pay attention to and what to ignore.

It seems that once again you are on a path to dumb down and simplify the game in what I am calling the WoWification of Eve.

CCP while you are on the path of getting rid of intel sources that you can't opt out of why not get rid of the killboards? How about removing employment history from the game? Why not just allow names changes while you are at it? Watchlisting reds in an intel gathering mechanic no different from a myriad of other's that no one can opt out of.

Removing intel from the game is not adding content it is removing it. I seriously wonder if you guys even play this game. No joke. Do you play it?


It seems like all the chages/new content are geared towards the Mega Alliances. No wonder I'm the only one left in my corp from 8 years ago.



^^^ Is why you need to bring back the old "Watch List" ability.
Kelari
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#378 - 2016-03-11 18:09:17 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
CCP Lebowski wrote:
We understand that for many people, this will fundamentally change the way you can use the (now renamed) buddy list, and we apologize for any short term inconvenience this may cause. We’re happy to discuss any use cases we may have neglected and any suggestions for future iteration that don’t contradict the reasoning outlined above.

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

Use case you probably didn't consider: Wormhole space

The use of watchlist in wormholes was fundamentally different than K-space. Yes, there were some people who used it to gank ratting capitals (similar to watchlisting supers). However, the vast majority of it's use was in tandem with "active" intel activities - ie scouting targets.

This use case wasn't broken - it was fundamentally necessary. Because there is no local in WH space, there is no way to distinguish between a cloaked pilot and an offline pilot. You can be diligently watching someone (doing "active intel" , which should be encouraged!) when suddenly they warp off and disappear. Did they cloak or go offline? There is literally no way to find out now. This problem doesn't exist in K-space because of local and locators. You can infer that they are cloaked because they are still in local. If they disappear from local you can check nearby systems to locate them. If that fails, you can always run a locator to be sure. We don't even have locators in WH space! So there is literally no way to know if I'm wasting my time waiting on someone who isn't even playing the game.

This might seem like a short term inconvenience, but it is a HUGE permanent problem for content in WH space. 90% of pilots spend their time in cloaked ships unless actively ratting or pvping. It's also quite common for people to log out in cloaked ships for extra stealth when they log back in. When I'm scouting and watch someone cloak up, I now have to decide how long to wait and see if they will come back. 20 minutes? An hour? Three hours? I can't count how many times I've been watching a target and getting ready to fight when they suddenly log out and never come back. In which case I move on and find something else to entertain me. Apparently now I'm just supposed to wait around on the off chance they'll return?

One natural solution would be to allow locator agents in wormhole space. However I do not consider this an appropriate solution. It's absurd that I would need someone in k-space to tell me what happened to someone I was literally just looking at in a wormhole. In the real world people can't just disappear into a parallel universe. This a game - we need some way to distinguish between people playing it with us and those who are visiting their grandparents or baking cookies!

Another solution would be to implement watchlist in such a way that a pilot doesn't show as "online" until you have confirmed it by "seeing" them in space/chat etc. At which point the watchlist would function naturally and show you if they log out. I don't think this is a great solution either because it could be easily abused by logging in and out periodically (or accidentally with bad internet).

If the main concern was supers, there were other ways to solve that problem. Disable locators in null sec...allow them to dock (already coming with citadel changes!) etc. You seem to have been duped into believing that the watchlist is "free intel", a naughty buzzword. How is it freer than local? Or locators (cost is basically irrelevant unless you're hunting many targets, which of course now you must do since you don't know who is online!) ? Locators are particularly silly. You have to grind a bunch of unrelated standing just to use them. They're only useful if you have an alt since you need to fly around to get to your target. And there's no counter play for them either.

TLDR: Players need some way of collecting intel. Just because something can be used as "free intel" in certain situations doesn't mean it isn't absolutely necessary in others. You say you don't like non-choices. My choice now is to sit around and wait for content or sit around and wait for content, instead of going out and finding some actively. Help me CCP Lebowski. You're my only hope.



More things CCP is ignoring about the watch list, all because they are hell bent of stopping people hunting capitals, which
is such a small % of the game and community. The rest of us have real reasons for wanting to be able to see who is online.
Akira Kata
AkiCo LLC
#379 - 2016-03-11 19:13:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Akira Kata
Duke Killem wrote:
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Hey all,



Thanks in advance for your feedback!



What about making the locator agent more useful, use them as another ISK sink. For a period of time they will notify you when the capsuleer is online? This of course wouldn't be cheap but something an agent could do?????


This could be interesting...

Glad the gong's gone, be nice if the seizure-inducing flashy kill thing followed.

Advanced audio/Station interior slider all the way to left seems to have solved Scope infomercial loop. CORRECTION: This turns out to not be the case- argh.
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#380 - 2016-03-11 19:13:34 UTC
Draconas109 wrote:
Draconas109 wrote:
gong: it's annoying as all hell, please remove it or better yet, add a volume button

station environment: you're killing my FPS while raising my temperature output for something's that was a pain in the ass for the devs, so now you make it a pain in the ass for your users, please add it back.

the scope: please add a volume button or a mute button, while I liked the novelty of the audio the first time, it's pissing me right the **** off after the third time, imagine how im feeling after 4 hours today.


I haven't been on much in the past few months, and the one day that I do come back, you're making me regret it CCP



One problem fixed CCP, two more still exist


By two you mean two thousand or two million?

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!